HOLYROLLER
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I have both heard and read that there is a national ammo shortage, anybody heard the same? True, rumor, only certain calibers or particular parts of the country? Thanks, HR.
Nat'l AMMO shortage?
- Thread starter HOLYROLLER
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Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The sky is falling! Oh, the sky is falling! We're going to have to raise prices to make up for the falling sky!
HR,
Due to rising Copper and Lead prices in the market as well as elevated consumption by the miltary ammunition costs as a whole ar rising.
In addition a lot of "military" calibres are being sucked out of the general pool.
So, Economics 101 on supply, cost and demand
1. All ammo is tending to cost more
2. 5.56/.223, 7.62/.308 tend to lead the pack on reduced availibility or increased cost
Due to rising Copper and Lead prices in the market as well as elevated consumption by the miltary ammunition costs as a whole ar rising.
In addition a lot of "military" calibres are being sucked out of the general pool.
So, Economics 101 on supply, cost and demand
1. All ammo is tending to cost more
2. 5.56/.223, 7.62/.308 tend to lead the pack on reduced availibility or increased cost
El Tejon
Member
Shortage? The market has no shortages, just adjustments to price.
However, if you think the market is underserved, you can start your own ammo company.
However, if you think the market is underserved, you can start your own ammo company.
308win
Member
My limited observation locally (I only visit one retailer normally) is that there is less 5.56/.223 & 7.62X39 on the shelves than was the case a couple of years ago. I haven't ask the retailer but I expect this is due to tighter merchandising controls since inventory costs more. I am going by to pick up 748 and I'll ask and see what response I get. Wait with baited breath, report at 11.
Bazooka Joe71
Member
Well one thing is for certain, there definately isn't a shortage in THR ammo shortage threads.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=290285&highlight=shortage
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=278757&highlight=shortage
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=266881&highlight=shortage
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=206366&highlight=shortage
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=169682&highlight=shortage
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=84068&highlight=shortage
RKBABob
Member
It could very well be economics...
The price of copper has increased 200% in one year. Copper is a component of brass cased ammo. This would obviously raise prices, especially in long-cased rifle rounds. The gunshop owners, not being extremely wealthy, decide to save a few $'s by ordering and stocking less... thus giving the impression of a shortage.
Anyone want to chime in re: the price/availability of steel and aluminum cased ammunition?
The price of copper has increased 200% in one year. Copper is a component of brass cased ammo. This would obviously raise prices, especially in long-cased rifle rounds. The gunshop owners, not being extremely wealthy, decide to save a few $'s by ordering and stocking less... thus giving the impression of a shortage.
Anyone want to chime in re: the price/availability of steel and aluminum cased ammunition?
308win
Member
Went to Buckeye Outdoors (owned by the same ownership as Vance's). They are the two largest firearms dealers in the Columbus area as far as I know. Vance's carries very little ammo anytime; Buckeye Outdoors has always carried a lot of ammunition. They used to (couple of years ago) have pallets of cheap imported 5.56 and 7.62x39 in addition to end caps and shelves full of American manufacture. This afternoon I found maybe 1000 rounds of Wolf in 100rd lots for $32 and maybe 2000 rounds of some 7.62x39 brand wrapped in brown paper and tied with twine for $26/100. On the other hand if you wanted deer slugs they had 1000's of rounds varying in price from $3 to $18 for five and people were carrying it out like it was going out of existence. I asked one of the clerks why no 5.56 or 7.62 and he just shrugged and said there wasn't much demand at the prices they had to ask; he said that it can be bought about as cheap on line than they can get it (and this isn't a small operation between the two stores). I did notice that there were a lot of empty slots where handgun ammunition should have been and the selection of bullets regardless of manufacture was not what I expected - I couldn't find one box of .308 varmint bullets of any manufacture other than a couple of boxes of 110gr spire points; also no match bullets. They had plenty of powder although not in my favorites such as BL(2)C, 748 (they were holding an 8lb jug of 748 for me and had one jug on the floor. I didn't look for brass but also don't remember seeing any and their primer selection (other than 209's) wasn't very extensive. So, draw your own conclusions.
hotpig
Member
Many consumers do not realize the scope of the shortage because it really has not hit their side of the consumer market yet.
The mfg have distributors that sale ammo just to Government agencies. They also have distributors that sale to regular commercial places like Wal Mart, Dicks, and other dealers.
The Agency dealers have been in a crunch for ammo for a long time. I get Police agencies calling almost every day looking for duty and target ammo.
The calls go along this line. This is Captain who ever at so and so Sheriffs/Police department.I need 10k of the Ranger 40 cal and 20k of the cheapest Winchester fmj target ammo that you have.
Right now you are not going to find 10k of this ammo anyplace in this country. If you want a few hundred or a couple thousand rounds you may find that at one place. The same goes with the Winchester fmj ammo.
I refer them to places like Wal Mart for their target ammo. Now they are bleeding ammo from the regular consumer market.
How long is the market going to be able to supply commercial and Government sales? I have a feeling that we are going to find out in the next year.
The mfg have distributors that sale ammo just to Government agencies. They also have distributors that sale to regular commercial places like Wal Mart, Dicks, and other dealers.
The Agency dealers have been in a crunch for ammo for a long time. I get Police agencies calling almost every day looking for duty and target ammo.
The calls go along this line. This is Captain who ever at so and so Sheriffs/Police department.I need 10k of the Ranger 40 cal and 20k of the cheapest Winchester fmj target ammo that you have.
Right now you are not going to find 10k of this ammo anyplace in this country. If you want a few hundred or a couple thousand rounds you may find that at one place. The same goes with the Winchester fmj ammo.
I refer them to places like Wal Mart for their target ammo. Now they are bleeding ammo from the regular consumer market.
How long is the market going to be able to supply commercial and Government sales? I have a feeling that we are going to find out in the next year.
RoadkingLarry
Member
Of course the possibility of a self fulfilling prophesy wherein people in fear of a shortage start buying up all the ammo they can get thereby exasperating a minor downturn in ammo availability. On the other hand I have several hundred pound of casting lead, and a few thousand primers and an 8 lb can of powder but only about 2500 .45 brass in circulation so I guess I better get some more brass before the supply dries up some more.....
Just for the sake of conspiracy
You don't have to take away the guns as long as there isn't any ammo for them. Kinda defeats the second amendment without going to court.
When they first put a tax on full autos in 1934 it was $200. During the depression no body had $200 to waste on guns. So as inflation came along more people could aford the guns and the tax so the government ,to keep the guns out of the hands of most people, stopped the manufacture of full autos. Of course it puts the price of a gun out of the hands of all but the rich
Now to keep guns out of the hands of the poor they make ammo cost so much people will give up their guns and shooting. My bet is that people will make a run on 22LR guns of all persuasion and stock up on 22LR ammo. It only makes sense.
jim
You don't have to take away the guns as long as there isn't any ammo for them. Kinda defeats the second amendment without going to court.When they first put a tax on full autos in 1934 it was $200. During the depression no body had $200 to waste on guns. So as inflation came along more people could aford the guns and the tax so the government ,to keep the guns out of the hands of most people, stopped the manufacture of full autos. Of course it puts the price of a gun out of the hands of all but the rich
Now to keep guns out of the hands of the poor they make ammo cost so much people will give up their guns and shooting. My bet is that people will make a run on 22LR guns of all persuasion and stock up on 22LR ammo. It only makes sense.
jim
mauser7
Member
As several prior commentors have pointed out the price of copper has gone up along with lead and steel, remember also that copper is not just used in bullet jackets but in making the brass case. A blog I use to read was writen by a man who's day job was selling mining equipment over a year ago he had more business then he could handle. He mentioned that it costs a $1 to get copper out of the ground to a useable state. It has been holding steady for a while now at over $4 a pound. The huge inferstructue build up in China and India coupled with continued world wide demand for electronics and cell phones, lots of copper and lead in cell phones, mp3 players, computers and cell towers you know.
All this has made the last two year "interesting". Both of the last two years have seen an average of 4 price increases, the last one from Remington, Federal and Winchester was 20%. It has already been intimated that there will be another 20% increase come Jan. 1.
Last year it was 7.62X39 that was functional non-existant. Wolf was the major player here, and is now shipping on a some what more regular basis on 7.62X39. Of course the price increase have blunted demand some what, along with fewer cheap-cheap guns that shot 7.62X39. Of course a little dust up over around the gulf of arabia along with Mr. Chavez arming up his privete SA, didn't help.
This year it has been 5.56/.223. Federal has cut off everybody but the goverment, and LEO's from American Eagle. As has Winchester. Varment bullet loads are still available, but 55 & 62gr ball is sparce. Here some of the smaller players are picking up with Fiocchi and Magtech starting to get some product into the pipeline, but very slowly.
In addtion to all the US production at Lake City, Winchester, Federal plants, the US has purchased 100's of millions of rounds from Israel and Taiwan. The training for troops headed for the sandbox has included much more extensive action drills, and not just for infantry, but MP's, truck drivers, and other folks who might have call to be outside the wire of an FOB.
I have been told not to expect much change next year. In addition just to stir the pot, one source has told me they are having problems keeping up with .40S&W! I seem to recall that not only do a large number of US LEO's use the .40S&W but so do the Iraq police. In addition the US has bought a large amount of pistol, (.40?), rifle (5.56 & 7.62X39), and shotgun ammo for the Iraq police and military. And I haven't even mentioned the privete contractors.
As to shortage of 9MM or .45ACP, I have seen some spot shortages here and there in different brands and bullet weights, but nothing like last years 7.62X39 or this years 5.56.
Earlier this year I took a wingshooting class and spoke with several people who have stopped reloading their own shells except for 28ga and .410 because the price of lead,
On a positive note, Corbon is finally found a supplier for .300 Whisper, 6.8 is holding OK and .204 Ruger is doing well. I suggest you talk to DPMS or Bushmaster about a new upper ; )
All this has made the last two year "interesting". Both of the last two years have seen an average of 4 price increases, the last one from Remington, Federal and Winchester was 20%. It has already been intimated that there will be another 20% increase come Jan. 1.
Last year it was 7.62X39 that was functional non-existant. Wolf was the major player here, and is now shipping on a some what more regular basis on 7.62X39. Of course the price increase have blunted demand some what, along with fewer cheap-cheap guns that shot 7.62X39. Of course a little dust up over around the gulf of arabia along with Mr. Chavez arming up his privete SA, didn't help.
This year it has been 5.56/.223. Federal has cut off everybody but the goverment, and LEO's from American Eagle. As has Winchester. Varment bullet loads are still available, but 55 & 62gr ball is sparce. Here some of the smaller players are picking up with Fiocchi and Magtech starting to get some product into the pipeline, but very slowly.
In addtion to all the US production at Lake City, Winchester, Federal plants, the US has purchased 100's of millions of rounds from Israel and Taiwan. The training for troops headed for the sandbox has included much more extensive action drills, and not just for infantry, but MP's, truck drivers, and other folks who might have call to be outside the wire of an FOB.
I have been told not to expect much change next year. In addition just to stir the pot, one source has told me they are having problems keeping up with .40S&W! I seem to recall that not only do a large number of US LEO's use the .40S&W but so do the Iraq police. In addition the US has bought a large amount of pistol, (.40?), rifle (5.56 & 7.62X39), and shotgun ammo for the Iraq police and military. And I haven't even mentioned the privete contractors.
As to shortage of 9MM or .45ACP, I have seen some spot shortages here and there in different brands and bullet weights, but nothing like last years 7.62X39 or this years 5.56.
Earlier this year I took a wingshooting class and spoke with several people who have stopped reloading their own shells except for 28ga and .410 because the price of lead,
On a positive note, Corbon is finally found a supplier for .300 Whisper, 6.8 is holding OK and .204 Ruger is doing well. I suggest you talk to DPMS or Bushmaster about a new upper ; )
curmudgeon and anarchist
Member
Even if it is a rumor, gun stores will see it as pretext to raise prices. Best not to create scares. It gives people ideas.
jaholder1971
Member
Supply and demand on metals my Southern extremity.
18 months ago bare bright copper was being bought by the scrap yards for 2.86/pound, #1 and #2 copper was about 50 cents less.
I sold 37 pounds of bare bright copper last week for $1.90/pound, the best deal in the county.
18 months ago bare bright copper was being bought by the scrap yards for 2.86/pound, #1 and #2 copper was about 50 cents less.
I sold 37 pounds of bare bright copper last week for $1.90/pound, the best deal in the county.
XD-40 Shooter
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- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
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No ammo shortage here, I'm sitting on 3000 pieces of 40 S&W brass, 600 pieces of 357 brass, 2000 125 grain 357 bullets, 3000 155 grain 40 S&W bullets, 10 lbs of Unique, and 5000 primers. How about dem apples.
jeff-10
Member
As the $ drops in real value everything (except toys made in China) goes up in price. Especially stuff made out of steel, lead and copper. Same reason gasoline is so expensive now. The dollar is rapidly becoming worthless. The fact that we have a couple of wars going only compounds the problem.
WestCoastJTF
Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2007
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My experience is that prices are up - most significantly in 5.56 but in all calibers. I shoot mostly .308 and .45, which are not as heavily used in the military, and the prices are substantially more than they were 3-4 years ago.
DougW
Member
I suppose it is relative. We shot some Wolf .223 yeaterday that cost $1.99/box a few years ago. Now it is at $5.97/box. You can get it, but shooting it is not as much fun. Also shot some CCI Blazer 9mm that cost $3.97/box a year ago, is now $7.99/box.
I only wish I was making that much of an increase in my retiremnet fund!
There is a shortage of inexpensive ammo. New factory and surplus (when you can find it) prices are about the same.
I only wish I was making that much of an increase in my retiremnet fund!
There is a shortage of inexpensive ammo. New factory and surplus (when you can find it) prices are about the same.
Roadwild17
Member
The only shortage is in the private supply of the less prepaired. I have what I need, just have to cut back on range use and get the most on every round.
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