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nearsighted newbie needs help

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blindjim

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I've an extensive history with firearms, military and private training and use.... though I'm now quite removed from such things and have been for some time, so I'm out of the loop so to speak.

I'm also experiencing several attempts (4) in the last month from intruders trying to gain access to my home... I live alone. I'm erecting motion sensitive floods as this is posted. Also a possible G.E. or Honeywell alram system... but feel a gun is as well a need.

So what is recommended? Handgun? Home Defense Shotgun? I've seen both the Tarus Judge, and Mossberg 930 SPX... lately. I've owned Ruger, SW, Winchester, Remington BDL, in my past.

My thinking is whatever the weapon... a rail mounted light is a must.... please... your thoughts?

Thanks. jim
 
Welcome to the forum Jim, while I'm sure you'll get several recommendations there are a few things you want to keep in mind.
1 - Whatever you get make sure it is something you will be comfortable to shoot and practice with it if you're going to use it for defense.
2 - Think of cost of the ammunition. For example (in my area) a box of 9mm is about $10 but a box of .44 Magnum is around $40.

One thing I would highly suggest is to go to your local gun shop and handle a few guns (you can mention you're looking for ideas for home defense) and see what you like. Write down the names and come back and do some research on them, pros and cons.

Truth is many people here use many different firearms for their home defense preferences, it's kind of like choosing what car/truck/suv to drive. I personally have a 1911 .45 handgun and an assault rifle if needed, but I have a big house and space between my neighbors. Hope some of this helped. You'll no doubt get many, many other responses.
 
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If you are as nearsighted as I am, a set of lazer grips on a pistol is a real help. Or an auto with a rail to mount a lazer/light on.

When I wake, before I can put my glasses on, I need all the help I can get.
 
If you are not planning to carry, as in handgun, a shotgun would do nicely. Even a short barrled coach gun would work as you want something you can deploy quickly.
 
Hermannr

LASER lights are no benefit to me. Large brilliant spots are better. I handled a Taurus Judge with a 180 lumen light w/red dot laser… couldn’t see the red dot… saw the light just fine though.


Havegunjoe

Agreed.

Ryanxia

These steps are almost exactly the steps I am following… and I’ve been speaking with many shops in my area. Some good/nice, and some not so knowledgeable/nice.

It’s doubtful I’ll get a carry permit. It is interesting however as our societies integrity continues it’s lethargic downward spiral, a CCP is fast becoming just one more garment one could or should, put on before leaving the house…. Or so it appears of late.

Somehow I feel a light bearing shotgun is the solution.

My concerns are several though, and reasonable overall cost for this solution is surely one of them affecting me in this process… and yes… I do get that salesman pitch of “Well what’s your life worth to you!” too. Trust me there, I do get it…. But… senseable costs IMHO are those which yield a solution with some degree of prudence and thoughtfulness. Sure a Benelli at $1100 is a fine gun, though it doubtless is no better in the process of stopping someone as would be a likewise Remington, Mossberg, etc, at a somewhat lower sticker price.

In my case, Benelli has too much ‘unobtainium’ in it’s build for me to consider. Especially with the necessary add ons I MUST adopt.

If an auto loader Home Defense 12 G gun is indeed the choice, those I’ve seen are all chambered for 3 in. Are there tactical loads available to the public that afford both some consistency of spread and a nod for less chance of overpenetration as well?

….and what variety of shotshell are the popular choices then?

000? #5 Slugs? In 3 or 2 3/4 ??

Only one uninhabited house sits immediately near by… Possibly 25 ft in between our exterior walls, with a privacy fence in between. On two other sides the closest home is > 100 ft , and the other is about that distance with again, a privacy wooden fence separating us. On the other main compass point is a concrete block wall at 90 ft, and homes past it, though I’m unsure of their distances…. Probably 25 – 35 ft. Those lots aren’t large in that development.

As I’m concerned for my own safety, that of those about me is as well a consideration were I to employ lethal force.

Lastly, on the aspect of prudent penny pinching, IF I find a HD 12G, without Weaver or Pick rail, is there some solution for adding a stable, consistently operating light to it which I can toggle or keep engaged hands free?

Ps… as well, a magazine tube extension? Those two items and what shells are appropriate these days are Q’s I need to ask going forward.

In fact I’m out today to seek a remedy and am visiting two new spots, while retracing my steps to a former shop for one last look, feel, and see.

Thanks ever so much for the input, and do, please remain forthcoming with it. I don’t know it all, but feel collectively, there is much wisdom here to draw from.

Thanks.
 
I was about to emit my usual advice when I stopped short.

How blind are you, Jim?

Can you adequately distinguish a bad guy from say...the mailman, for example? Can you be *certain* of your target?


That being said, my usual advice for home defense is as follows: (I take willingness to get adequate training as writ.)


1) duty sized handgun, for those willing to put in the extra time compared to 2 & 3 to master it
2) shotgun, for those who don't mind the noise and recoil
3) pistol caliber carbine, for everyone else.
 
I bought an H&R 1871 (Pardner Pump) in 20ga. for just that purpose. I picked it up at WalMart for $170, it's built like a brick, holds five rounds after removal of the plug, and the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round gets a person's attention very quickly. I keep it loaded with a mixture of #3 buckshot and 2 slugs. I've shot the heck out of it in the backyard; low recoil, dependable operation, I'd recommend it to anyone for a cheap, home defense weapon.
 
YTou might also want to seriously consider a dog - even a small yapper will alert you and give you some time to prepare; obviously, a big deep-growler works even better

I am near-sighted, but I can still see clearly enough, at night, with no need for a light - I have enough ambient light coming in through the windows and from all of the "voltage vampires" in the house
 
As another person that is nearsighted (-4 range on my dominant eye, better on the other one) , plus getting to the point where my eye doctor is starting to talk about the need to get bifocals due to age related loss of accomodation I can understand the desire to have something that you can use in the middle of the night. In my experience (with glasses off) the sights on any handgun are useless, a laser & light combo may be helpful at household ranges if you can see the dot, for me that means within about 20-25 feet, maybe a bit more depending on lightly level. I find a shotgun much easier to sight with my glasses off, but remember you still need to be able to identify the threat before shooting. As to budget minded solutions I would look at the H&R Pardner Protector, it is the home denfense extended magazine short barrel version of the Pardner, it is a Chinese clone of the Remington 870 (Remington is now the parent company of H&R), solidly built 7.5 pound 12 gauge pump shotgun, finish is a bit rough, weight is a bit heavy, but my local sporting goods chain sells them for about $200, add a $75 tactical light and you have a good home defense shotgun that does not break the bank. I personally use a 40 something year old 20 gauge Remington 870 Wingmaster, don't discount the powe of a 20 gauge, just because 12 gauges loaded with low power ammo is the current fad, a standard load 20 gauge and a low power 12 gauge buckshot round are very similar to each other.

Ike
 
I'm legally blind without corrective eyeglasses. I suffer nearsightedness and astigmatism. Yet I can see the front sight of my handgun, carbine and shotgun well enough to effectively shoot these weapons in defense (whereas precision target shooting is whole 'nother ball game.)

Forget the Taurus Judge for defense. It's a joke.

I suggest a Remington 870 12 gauge fitted with a Surefire 318LM or 618LM WeaponLight fore end. No rail required - you're good to go. If you're recoil sensitive then I suggest installing a Blackhawk SpecOps buttstock.
 
geekWithA.45

“How blind are you, Jim?”
RE – It’s bad. I no longer drive.

“Can you adequately distinguish a bad guy from say...the mailman, for example?
RE I’ve actually thought about this part too.

Normally the pizza delivery guy, my mail man , my Friends, neighbors, various sales people… Girl Scoutts.. Missionaries… UPS… FedEx… (oops, FE never does knock they just pitch my stuff out of the truck as they drive by… sometimes), won’t ordinarily try to pry open my doors, break my windows or try to enter my home by force. So far, not one of these aforementioned known friendly enough folks have attempted to gain access to my home against my will. Whether I am there or not.

People’s actions tell me if I need to take action myself. Ordinarily, I respond in kind.

“Can you be *certain* of your target?”
RE Nope… in pitch black dead of night, abruptly awakened by some person or persons entering my home by force or stealth, I’d venture even sighted people may not truly be able to perfectly identify an intruder.

Albeit if you mean can I target adequately the intruder with a properly outfitted weapon in hand, then I’d say “Yes” with a good degree of certainty given I utilize the tools and training at my discretion appropriately enough.

I’d add I’m not easily alarmed and as said, have been in enough situations that I’mn still capable of keeping my head, and I promise I’m not the nervous type, nor the skittish sort who will pull on anything that moves…. And oh…. Theres that light thingy I mentioned earlier that in my situation is indeed a MUST have item.

To that point I’d submit as well, in lighted situations, and very dim ones, today I experienced target acquisition with the aid of an attached Streamlight. I was able in both totally unfamiliar dealerships today, I was easily able to see the light developed on whatever items up to about 30 ft away. In a less well lit room today, targeting with the aid of that little super light was still better/easier. I’d suspect in dead of night the targeting once acquired would be far simpler a task. BTW… my eyes aren’t the only sense I use when an interloper is on board, and some firearm is within my grip.

I do appreciate and understand your own & anyone else’ trepidation regarding this pursuit… It/this is in fact, complicated, even in my opinion.


littlebubba
Good idea, thanks.


oneounceload
Bowser is another item in my future very very, likely. Thanks much.


Isaac-1
I’m not married to the idea of a 12G… but many HD guns come just in that caliber… but your point is very well taken. Thank you.


Having handled a few times now the 930 SPX, W/RAIL and 7+1 capacity, auto loading, decent pull, heft and weight I only need add a Sure dependable shock resistant light onto the pick rail, and select a round or two worthy of use in a moderately dense populated area. Within a 120ft one way, and at worst, 30 ft in another direction.



Shawn Dodson

Judge is a joke? Governor too?

I did like the feel of each in my hand (s), though I liked the stainless six inch arrangement from Taurus a good bit. It fit really well.

But for me, perhaps both are unwarranted.
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Super thanks Sean… good info I’ll look into the notes on that suggested light.

I’m not sensitive at all to the recoil of a 12. Well, no more than anyone else. I’ll probably add on Pistol grips at a later date.

In optimum conditions and with time, I can actually see and sight in with open sights a fair sized target 30 ft away... or so. Where on the target it hits is another story. Driving nails with my BDL is but a foggy memory these days…. lol.

With that 180 lumen light the dealer showed me, seeing was a cinch, and target acquisition was no chore.

A little 3-5 in felt marker sized light with a single button at it’s rear, pushing it in some sequence added more features like a strobe, or a dimmer light.

It could be mounted just forward of the safe tang on the Mossberg 930 after removing the rear peep on the one shown me today. Yet I’m opting now for the rail Ghost ring adorned 930, as that GS front sight aperture is anorexic in comparison to the bulbous stock fixed front sight.

I’m really liking the 930 SPX. Found one for $670 out the door… no commando pistol grips, but 7+1 capacity, rail, Ghost sights, 18.5 IC. Auto loader. 3 in. or 2.75 12G.

An auto loader makes me more comfortable as then only I.D.’ing, pointing, acquiring, and shooting , if needed are concerns.

Lights with little red dots are useless to me.

Thanks much.
 
NMGonzo

Thanks much. that's the likely choice. I'm deciding now on which light to attach, and which shells to investigate/use. #5 & under down to 00, seem right, especially if in a tactical low recoil config. Still up in the air on 2.75 or 3, but 2.75 seem best, although I'm informed by some, anywhere from 100 - 300 rds of std 3 in shells NEED be shot to run in the action of the gun itself.

So the leg work continues in those two areas.
 
A little 3-5 in felt marker sized light with a single button at it’s rear, pushing it in some sequence added more features like a strobe, or a dimmer light.

I suggest a simple light - one with a simple on/off switch mechanism that's easy to manipulate under stress. You want the light to turn on when you want it to, and to turn off when you want it to.

A light that has features like strobe, dimmer, dazzle, SOS, etc., that are activated by manipulation of the switch is overly complex and unnecessary. Under stress you may manipulate the switch inadvertantly and cause it to enter an operating mode such as strobe, dazzle, SOS, etc., when you wanted to simply turn the light off, and instead of being concealed in darkness you now have a light doing something you don't want it to be doing. I suggest you keep it KISS simple.
 
I dont knock the direction your heading in (shotgun), but is there an exact type of arm you already are familiar and comfortable with? If you are going to have limited ability to practice, any previous experience will be important, with modifications for rifles/ shotguns in ammo for a populated area.(neighbors, apartments, etc).
With the number of break in attempts, is moving to a safer area a consideration too? Arming up and sticking around in an area known to be unsafe doesnt make sense. Also, is there any chance there is something about your residence attracting attention (dark, secluded access, attractive property visible on the property or through the windows?)
 
If you are as nearsighted as I am, a set of lazer grips on a pistol is a real help.

You must not be that bad.

I cannot see a laser dot without glasses or contacts at any range past about 3 feet.
 
When I was in the business of setting up homes for intrusion defense, I installed motion sensor lights in all rooms and hallways except the bedrooms. The lights were placed to be turned on via trespass from the outside, and were directed from the defender's cover toward the incoming threat. Cheap and very effective. The lights shine on the intruder's front and leave the defender in the dark. It was very easy to see whether it was #3 idiot son sneaking back into the house, or a true bad guy.

Pops
 
I use a single remote that turns on a 100 watt light in every room of the house (except my bedroom) by pushing a single button. Another button turns on a very loud alarm bell. Shotgun in the bedroom, handgun for everywhere else.

My thinking is whatever the weapon... a rail mounted light is a must.... please... your thoughts?

Nice aiming point for the bad guy.
 
If you decide to go with a 12 gauge there are several choices in low-recoil 00 buck. Think of 9 pellets about as wide as a.32 round traveling at around 900 – 1100 FPS (if I remember right). Less likely to over-penetrate than full power ammo but certainly going to deliver the mail. It will still penetrate drywall on a missed shot, but I’m convinced that anything that won’t penetrate drywall can’t be relied upon to effectively, reliably penetrate a bad guy.

I really like the earlier mentioned motion detector lights idea.
 
self defense

Pump shotgun, 12 gauge, shorter barrel, no plug in magazine, and five Fiochi low recoil 2 3/4 inch bird shot shells. Minimal kick. Flash light mounted to barrel with clamp on brackets if that is what you need to see well enough to id an intruder. Remington 870 in the used gun rack comes to mind. Stay away from pistol grip stocks, factory full length is fine. Good luck. Hope you don't need to use it! Bob
 
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Shawn Dodson

I totally agree! KISS is the way to do this. Your notion of a light and one other here made later on by someone else are currently on my short list to check out.

Trust me… I’m not opting for gimmickry in any form or fashion in this endeavor, it’s too critical a thing to deal with as it is considering my challenges.



armedandsafe

That is a superb idea… if I can retro fit something in here like that it would be great. Wirelessly perhaps better. If I poke any more holes in this house for conduit to sneak in, it’s going to sound like a wind chime… or Yani’s house.



451 Detonics
Again… outstanding notion. was that light setup a DIY kit?

Yeah.. I get the idea a light is going to work both ways… but I have something in mind there too I’ll not mention here.



Daveboone

Those are all thoughtful questions. I’ve ran over them all so much now it’s sickening for me to ponder them any more..


But thanks for the attentive input.



““….is there an exact type of arm you already are familiar and comfortable with? “

Yes. Several. However… the ongoing degredation of my vision tells me to forget all about those NRA, Military and competition matches.

I’m in a whole other world now. A very dim and dark one. And I’m not seeing like I used to. On top of that! lol

As I said early on, there was a time if I could see it I could hit it. Still. At speed or in flight. No longer though…. NOT without cheating… adding on aftermarket apparatus and such.



“With the number of break in attempts, is moving to a safer area a consideration too? “

Been wondering about that myself. Before these incidents began too. Been here off & on for 50+ years. Not a significant problem at all in the whole of that time. So I’m inclinded to think of this as an aberration of occurrances that will pass in time as those parties see I’m not easy or picking up stakes.

And who wants to move? The economics of the new digs would not change, consequently the same social atmosphere would exist, just in a different setting… maybe.

I am thinking too after talking with others I know who live not far away, home break ins, or home invasions are happening in their neighborthoods as well. I know some quite well off people by the way. If it is happening despite socioeconomics and not restricted to any particular sort of real estate, it is a grass roots pandemic snarl of what I believe to be the ‘new’ how to make a quick buck fad, for those wanna be gangstas, and teenage thugs/ idiots. Or some new form of fun for them. In all, it beats me as to it’s ‘why’.

But it is definitely going on all about me. Truth be told I could care less about the ‘why’ part any more. I’m just concentrating on the “What now” part.


“is something about your residence attracting attention (dark, secluded access, attractive property visible on the property or through the windows?)”

Possibly yes. The location. And as well, a lack of landscaping lighting and security lighting. Both items are nearing completion now. Motion sensitive 240 watt floods on each side of the home on the facia. Walk way lights will soon adorne the perimeter of the home in a flower box assembly I recently put together which borders the home on 3 sides.

My house is not going to get a photo op in Better Homes and Gardens, that is for sure. Past that I keep the curtains drawn shut and the blinds as well. I need little light to get around safely inside

I’m looking into motion detectors I can place in the yard which will indicate an alarm condition inside by some sort of enunciator, slient or audible or both. And a monitored system perhaps following that.

Again… 5 decades of peaceful living closed my eyes to deleterious social atrophy and other cultural denegrations & conditions which have led to folks having to resort to such exceptional measures for their own safety of late.



Flopsweat

Thank you. I’m getting range time with my purchase…. I’ll find out more about these loads later on. I feel your points are salient entirely.



BUZZARDII
Bob… WHY STAY AWAY FROM PISTOL GRIP STOCKS? I FIND THEM QUITE THE STABILIZING INFLUENCE… and the ONLY DRAWBACK I FORESEE IS PERHAPS THE NOTION OF TARGET ACQUISITION AND PLACING A SHOT BETTER FROM A SHOULDER POSITION…. But with PG one might want to not take careful aim.

aS I’m gonna have a light on the target or something… I’m thinking my firing position following my first round… if needed …. Could then come from hip or shoulder, or somewhere in between.

I’m over six ft tall. And over 250… and in half decent shape. I’m fairly sure I can still handle the recoil if held in both hands pretty well…

Thanks for bringing that up however. I’ll give it more thought now.


The most curious fact I’ve read so far is the unique way each mfg sht shell patterns. Same gun… different shells… equals different shot patterns, or some articles online say they do.
 
I don't like pistol grip shotguns; it takes a good deal of practice to get hits.
For a home defense shotgun with guide beam, I'd want a regular stock. You don't have to shoulder it, a buttstock clamped between the arm and ribs is pretty stable and if you have a light regulated so it shoots where it shines...

A searchlight on a pistol would be good, if regulated so that the gun shoots into the hot spot of the beam.

I've shot enough low light competition with a handheld light to know that a mounted light that does not point with the gun is a disadvantage. They should be zeroed like a laser.

Agree with Shawn, those multi-mode flashlights are gimmicks seldom useful and dangerously slow to get to where you want if for searching or illuminating a threat. Off-on is what you need for serious use.
 
In all honesty, I would urge you to consider getting a dog. My brother has two rotweilers. They are very sweet to the family but all business to strangers and funny noises. They will definately bite and attack if someone breaks in. My local firearms shop has a profesionally trained guard/attack dog. It wasn't cheap but again it's an option to consider.

If you like the shotgun route, please keep in mind you still need to aim them as carefully as a rifle. They don't spread out much beyond 1" per 1 yards and that isn't much given typical room sizes. Surefire IMO makes the best lights for the shotguns. You replace the pump with a new assembly that has a bright light. They aren't cheap (lights run somewhere between $400 to $700 last time I looked over six months ago) but they work and won't fall off the gun.

Above all, get some real training with the weapon. It will help you determine what you can and can't do.
 
Jim Watson
Agreed. Thanks.



ErikO
So far, the 12’s have it.


Sheepdog1968
That dog idea may wind up being exactly what is needed in the long run.
 
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