Nebraska Mall shooting question...

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I'm really shocked that this could have happened in a no gun zone. You would think that the killer would have had enough respect for the law to have put the gun away and grab something else when he saw the signs. Wait, maybe that was the problem. Maybe he just didn't see the signs. If they had big flashing neon signs that said "no gun zone", I bet he would have noticed and this whole thing would have never happened.

I'm going to call up my congressman and propose just that and while I'm at it I think I'll call up the UN and propose making the world a "no war zone". That ought to fix things for good.
 
"No guns" signs only make it easier for people like this to commit these kinds of acts. Disarms all the law abiding gun carriers so they have no means to protect themselves.

If you think about it, a nut job who is going to commit an act such as this would be smart to choose a location that doesn't allow armed civilians to enter.

Not saying that if people were allowed to carry there that it would have prevented this but at least you would have the element of chance.
 
The Associated Press ran this story on the shooting. Here’s my commentary:

Perhaps an hour before the shooting, Hawkins called Maruca-Kovac to say he had left a suicide note. He wrote that he was "sorry for everything" and would no longer be a burden on his family, with whom he had feuded. More ominously, he wrote: "Now I'll be famous."

How does bringing this horrible notoriety onto the family relieve their burden?

Entering Von Maur's in the Westroads Mall, Hawkins promptly drew the attention of security officers.

"Mall security actually spotted Mr. Hawkins upon entry. He was under surveillance at that time, just based on his actions," Police Chief Thomas Warren said Thursday.

But the officers were unarmed, Warren said. "Mall security did not have a chance to intervene."

He came into the mall looking suspicious, then left to retrieve the gun. Unfortunately the unarmed mall security people didn’t call the cops before he got his gun. The police would probably prioritize this type of call pretty low, and may not even come, because at this point, he just looks suspicious. Nevertheless, if he looked so suspicious that they noticed him, loud alarm bells should have been going off in their collective heads when he returned. Reading between the lines it’s apparent that they never saw him return.

Police believe Hawkins might have targeted the mall simply because it was large and he had been there somewhat regularly.

We can certainly speculate that he targeted the mall because he was aware, since he frequented this mall, that security was unarmed and likely impotent. I doubt he was worried about armed citizens, but most teenagers have less respect for mall security personnel than we do.

Mason, 42, was about 50 feet from Hawkins; his wife was even closer. The clerk at the counter told them to go with her to a hiding place - and they went to a small storage area behind the dressing rooms.

A grandmother and her 4-year-old grandson sneaked into the storage area with them and they waited in fear. Shooting persisted - then stopped for a moment. Then, Mason said, he heard five or six more shots before all went quiet.

They waited about 45 minutes - Mason grabbed a box cutter just in case the gunman came back - and they heard police announce their presence.

This is disturbing – even sickening. Good free Americans cowering in the face of evil, unable to protect their children. One grabs a box cutter for protection, far too little and far too late. We cannot ever be prepared for every contingency, but it helps to be prepared for the ones that are willing to kill you and yours.

By the time police arrived, within six minutes of the first 911 call, customer Gary Scharf was dead.

Read this carefully; don’t miss the jumble of thoughts presented. The mention of the response time seems completely out of place here, but someone thought it important so it was forced into this sentence. Six minutes is an eternity is this scenario, but I think the writer included it as a salve to the nerves of holiday mall shoppers that help is only minutes away.

"These were innocent people going about their daily lives, performing their jobs and shopping for the holidays," said Mayor Mike Fahey. "They are men and women who did not deserve the fate that they were given."

The mayor is a ****wit. Of course they didn’t deserve the fate they were given! They made the lethal mistake of trusting their lives to unarmed, untrained, and underpaid mall security personnel, instead of taking responsibility for their own safety first. Unless the police can guarantee a response time of six seconds or less, you and you alone are the best protection you could possible hope for. This is a violent society at times, and if you fail to prepare yourself for mortal danger then you are a danger to yourself and the ones over which you hold responsibility. Everyone carries a spare tire in the trunk of their car to be prepared for the minor inconvenience of a flat tire, but foolishly brush aside preparation for the potentially fatal threats that lurk about. None of the shoppers killed in the mall knew that kid, so none of them had any chance of intervening to prevent the tragedy; the best they could have done was stop him after the people that knew him failed. There will be a cry of ‘more gun control’ and ‘better identification of the mentally ill’, but that doesn’t mean squat when there’s a gun barrel turning to your direction. At that point it becomes survival. Far too many Americans trust their survival to someone else.
 
You don't under stand, the poor guy cane into the mall, saw all these people with bags in their hand and throught they were shoplifting. Since it would take too long for Security to arrive he simply took matters into his own hands.:evil:
 
everytime i go to that mall i have been in about 5 different entrances and not at one have i seen the no gun sign and i hope they dont put one up due to this. also i wonder what the guys in dick sporting goods were thinking with a wall of guns and ammo? im sure it would be different in there seats but i think if i were there i would have done something.
 
skinewmexico, it is not a felony in Texas to carry in a building that has the "30.06" posting. A person in Texas that carries a weapon in a location with the Legitimate "30.06" posting commits a class 3 misdemeanor for criminal tresspass. There is a few other conditions involved, like getting cought for carrying a concealed weapon in the first place.

The only mall in the DFW area that I know has the legal posting is Grapevine Mills Mall. The "Mills" malls I have visited in other areas have some sort of posting also, so I believe it is a company policy. BTW, a decal of a handgun with the red circle and slash IS NOT a legitimate posting in Texas. It has to be exactly the way the law says.

The subject came up in my renewal class for my CHL earlier this year. In Grapevine, the mall entrances are posted, but the satellite stores like Burlington Coat Factory entrances are not posted. It is possible to enter Grapevine Mills Mall without passing through an entrance with the "30.06" posting (30.06 is the section of the Texas Penal Code where the legitimate posting wording and rules are written.) So now what do you do? How dedicated to a "gun free zone" idea is Grapevine Mills Mall?

So the issue is personal responsibility for your own safety. I have carried every time I have ever visited any mall in the past 8 years. I personally will continue to do so. In fact, I have upped tha caliber and capicity of the weapon I carry. I am not looking for a fight though. I am only trying to be prepared. It is up to each one of us to descide what we will do as an individual (I also have been known to exceed the speed limit too!).
 
To anyone in Omaha, I will pay $25 to have a picture of the "no guns" sign on the mall's door.

In fact, a poster of the "doors of death"* showing the victim disarmament signs at infamous locations (Utah mall, Virginia Tech, recent school shootings, etc.), though morbid, would make a very powerful point in our quest to eliminate these signs and their unintended, but deadly, effects

*Similar in style to posters of the "Doors of Ireland" or other montages of doorways.
 
Nebraska needs something similar to the Texas 30.06 sign

Everytime I see that, I am struck by the great irony of that code....

You mean the fact that a person carrying a concealed weapon in a 30.06 zone would only be caught breaking the law if the weapon were at some point not concealed?

...Or the fact that most 30.06 (Winchester) weapons are not concealable in the first place :D

In any case, Texas 30.06 code can be confusing, believe it or not. The sign is defined and required by clause c-3-B of the section, but is optional if the premises follows clause c-3-A of the section, which reads that written notice can first of all be "a card or other document on which is written language identical to [the required notice]". The intent of c-3-A, ostensibly, is that the notice can be placed in a written agreement or on a membership card, the terms of which must be agreed to by the CHL in order to be granted permission to enter/remain on the premises. By so doing the owner avoid the conspicuous sign at the entrance to a place where the sign would detract from aesthetics, such as a ritzy country club or member's club.

Clause c-3-A can however be easily interpreted to mean that any placement of the text of the required notice that is observable by the CHL constitutes written notice. This interpretation guts the spirit of the next clause, which states that owners failing notice according to c-3-A, must have the same text on a conspicuously-placed sign at every entrance with contrasting colors in letters at least 1 inch high. The intention is obvious; you must either present to me the CHL, in person, when or before I enter, a document or card bearing the 30.06 notice, or you must have a sign with that notice posted where I cannot reasonably fail to notice, read and understand it before I enter.

However, the alternate interpretation of c3A is probably the interpretation taken by those who post signs of a size, location or color that do not comply with c-3-B, and I don't know if there has been any test case of failure to comply with a 30.06 notice that was dismissed due to improper notice. I certainly wouldn't want to be the first one unless I could convince the officer involved that the sign was so out of spec as to be reasonably unnoticeable. Then he's on MY side, and if it even made it to court I wouldn't be too worried. The text of the notice is even stickier; the law is very clear that the notice text presented must be EXACTLY as defined; however I'm not sure a judge would let you split hairs that the text wasn't identical and therefore improper if you could reasonably understand its purpose. Taking that to the extreme, a conspicuous silhouette of a gun with red circle and slash has a pretty clear meaning; no guns allowed. A prosecutor could tear you apart if you ignored the message of the sign because it wasn't properly constructed, regardless of the letter of the law. If you're convicted, the rules of 30.06 considering display and content of the message become meaningless.
 
Liko81, I have to disagree with your last paragraph. Texas law did away with the "spirit" aspect by requiring the exact phrases, the size of the letters, and that they be in a conspicuous location. Unless you live in Houston, with it's big time anti district attorney, a slash picture of a firearm is not valid anywhere in the state. Individual cities cannot make up their own rules in Texas. That is why you can carry into City Hall, but you can't enter the council chambers. There is no wiggle room here. The state legislature has put the only wording of the text into law, and makes no allowances for any changes of any kind to the wording, or even the size of the letters.
 
Unless you live in Houston, with it's big time anti district attorney, a slash picture of a firearm is not valid anywhere in the state.
Can you cite an instance in Harris County where a CHL'er was arrested, let alone convicted for carrying past a non-30.06 sign?
 
CleverNickname, I cannot. I can find info that the Harris County DA and the Police Chief have said that their officers will ignore the new provision of Texas Law that covers carrying a concealed weapon in your car without a CHL. I have found no other LEO in the state that is taking the same track. Houston politics have always been much more anti gun than any other city in the state, including Austin and Dallas.

That is not the issue, and I don't want to hijack this thread. The issue was concerning legal postings of the mall in Nebraske. Statements that were not totally accurate concerning Texas were made, and the only attempt here was to clarify the laws in Texas.

My point about the Nebraska law stays the same. Each person must make the determination concerning their personal safety. Just how well is the anti gun postings enforced in that mall? Are there metal detectors? Do we go on the goodness of a society to obey the law no matter what? The shooter in this incident was not concerned about the postings (niether was the shooter at Virginia Tech). His second criminal act was carrying the SKS (which it appears that he stole from his father) into the mall. Now what?

All I am saying is that vigilance today is different than in the years past. The most famous laste words are "I never thought something like this would occure in my town". And it is unfortunately a more dangerous world than before.

I definately carry when I travel to Houston too. Usually more than one firearm.
 
One has to wonder...if the individual whose story was posted in another thread had indeed been carrying a concealed handgun, in violation of the law, and had successfully used it to stop the shooter...

What would the media have said? Would he have faced a misdemeanor charge for ignoring the sign? Imagine the conundrum that would put the politicians in.
 
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