Malls debate how to protect shoppers from violence

[BobbyQuickdraw]

None of the 'good guys' died at the OK Corral and no civilians were killed, either. Only 'bad guys' ended up dead. A few of the 'good guys' got wounded, but recovered.


I use quotations as even to this day some support the Claytons rather than the Earps.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Rule #1. Don't shop in malls. Personally, I hate going to the mall.

Rule #2. If I must go to the mall, I am packing my own personal anti bad guy device.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

1) shellshocked consumers burdened with high personal debt and energy prices

+

2) mob mentality of holiday shopping / bargain hunting

+

3) ordeal of trying to find a parking spot

+

4) general stress of the holidays

=

5) it's a wonder MORE people (besides young freaky white males) don't go postal at malls.

Life in the USA is easier than it has been for people in all of human existance. Blaming the actions of this evil pathetic loser idiot on some sort of "life is difficult these days" excuse is insulting to our ancestors who had to suffer through REAL hardships.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I'm still suprised that, apparently, so many malls across America are posted gun freee zones.


Thank God the two here in Myrtle Beach aren't posted.

Toys 'R Us, however...

 

[LaVere]

Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Greene. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight." Or maybe no one would have been killed.

There is more than removing the gun free zones. The CCW communities have to know they have some protected from prosecution and law suits and that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff and not the CCW holder. And that the law enforcement and communities give positive support. Of course there must be reason and logic and safe shooting guidelines. These can be taught and reinforced just as in training for anything.


I comment the police for being there in 6 minutes.

 

[30 cal slob]

Life in the USA is easier than it has been for people in all of human existance. Blaming the actions of this evil pathetic loser idiot on some sort of "life is difficult these days" excuse is insulting to our ancestors who had to suffer through REAL hardships.

Pfffft.

Happy Saturnalia.

 

[sturmgewehr]

I'm just waiting for this news event to bring the Mall Ninja out of retirement.

 

[Bart Noir]

I'll take the OK Corral to Babi Yar EVERY time.

Now that is a gem. No sarcasm, it a statement that carries much meaning.

And is worth remembering.

Bart Noir
Who thanks Deanimator.

 

[Outlaws]

Private armed guards are no better than armed cops. I don't like either one. I don't want any armed force standing around patrolling like its some 3rd world country. The only armed solution is CCW.

Give me a break. How many mall shootings have their been and people want a strip search or an armed gestapo around every corner?!?! A few people can die now and then if it keeps this country free. The price of protecting freedom is everyones, not just the soldier and marine.

 

[CZ 42]

Is this Greene dumbass getting paid by some anti-gun lobbyist? How would anyone think that a killer having resistance would make them a better, more effective killer? It's not like some CCWers are gonna join the guy in his running amok, they're gonna put a ****in' bullet in him and stop him! This is a clear situation, if you see a guy with a SKS running around in your mall, you put him down with whatever you've got! :banghead: . If you see a " no guns allowed " sign, bring it to your range and put some .45s through it. Then hang it back up. That's all that it's good for.

Vote for Ron Paul, put a stop to this anti-gun blasphemy.

 

[lance22]

Don't stop murders because if you do, somebody could get hurt. Lay down and die. The police will arrive after the party is over. Obeying the state is more important than stopping or surviving an attack.

An armed civilian cannot possibly stop a 19 year old with a gun. Only a government employee / LEO enjoys the jedi-like mastery over his weapons needed to confront mall shooters.

 

[Wopasaurus]

I am a retail manager in the mall, which I admit is both bogus and sad, but one good thing about mall security where I work is that they admit how dumb their ccw policy is. They don't allow concealed weapons, however, there are no posted signs, so they can't do anything about us legal carriers.

so at least I can have my pistol and a spare mag tucked away in my bookbag in the back room. If something were to happen like a crazed gunman I could at least rest easier knowing I could get my people out of sight and protect the back room. If 25 round of .45 can't defend us then we were doomed from the start.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

There is no solution. Random violence is one of the inherent risks of living in a (more or less) free society.

I agree. If you leave your house every day always looking over your shoulder for the bad guy you know is there your going to have a hole in your stomach in a year. The best way to combat being a victim is to stay protected, and always be conscious of whats going on around you.

 

[Eagle103]

I heard on our evening news tonight that the "security guards" in a large local mall are unarmed as well. Looking at some of these guys that may be a good thing but the concept makes no sense to me. How are they supposed to confront an armed attacker? Point their security cameras at him? It's sort of like the Walmart "greeter". Theft control is the only goal.

 

[RNB65]

How are they supposed to confront an armed attacker?

Sorry, but that's not their job. Security guards are there to act as a deterrent. If deterrence doesn't work, their job is to notify the police and try to help people to safety. Nothing more.

 

[Pilgrim]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Some experts are skeptical that anything could have stopped Robert Hawkins from going on a murderous rampage at an Omaha, Nebraska, shopping mall on Wednesday.

Gun towers, like they have in prison exercise yards?

Pilgrim

 

[Phydeaux642]

Maybe mall patrons should look out for their own safety. Maybe mall patrons should say 'to hell with the signs that say I have to be a sheep' and carry anyway.

That's what I do. Where I live there are a lot of businesses that are posted, including the mall, but I go in anyway because 'concealed' means 'concealed' and no one is the wiser if I do my part. When I sat through my CCW class that was led by a LEO he made us aware of the places we should absolutely not carry (police stations, courthouses, etc.). He then went on to say with basically a nod and a wink that businesses that are posted really have no recourse other than to ask you to leave the premises if they see that you are carrying. If you leave willfully then no harm, no foul. If not, then law enforcement can be called in to make you leave and you get a warning and a fine. He said these instances were 'infractions' and you were not technically breaking the law. It takes three such instances to loose your CCW permit.

He also told the class that several businesses in the area had removed their "No Firearms Allowed" signs to try to curb robberies.

___________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

 

[Zundfolge]

He then went on to say with basically a nod and a wink that businesses that are posted really have no recourse other than to ask you to leave the premises if they see that you are carrying. If you leave willfully then no harm, no foul.

Thats how it is here in Colorado as well, however in places like Nebraska, Kansas, Texas and other states, if a business posts a "no guns" sign and you carry there anyway, you can lose your CHL (and possibly be charged with a crime).

I, for one, refuse to give money to bigots and I treat those signs like I'd treat "Whites Only" signs and take my money elsewhere.

 

[Still 2 Many Choices!?]

I live in the great state of Texas, and have yet to come across a PROPERLY posted 30.06(yeah, ironic I know ) sign. These signs only carry the full weight of the law if PROPERLY posted, and the law is very specific. Unless posted correctly, or I simply know carrying there would be a bad idea(post office, police station, etc), I simply ignore the signs... Concealed means concealed!!!
Still 2 Many Choices!?

 

[Soybomb]

$10 says they decide metal detectors are the solution.

For as much as people here say that people are sheep, I don't see consumers accepting that. If not just for privacy's sake, I don't see any way that it could ever be practical. Think of how long it takes a person to get past air port screening and how many people flood through the mall's door.

 

[silverlance]

The reason why malls dont employ armed security is simple.

Armed security is expensive, and substantially increases insurance costs in terms of liability. if some idiot goes to the bathroom and leaves his gun on the floor, and a kid gets shot.. well you know how that would end up.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Metal detectors and searches will hamper business too much for the malls to afford. And they would be the only way to really drastically lower the probability of an armed person in the mall. So basically, to stay in business, you gotta accept that there is the possibility of armed people in your mall, for good or ill. So in order to stop an incident like this, it needs to occur as soon after the initial crime occurence as possible. And logically, the best way to do that is by physically stopping the perp before he is able to shoot people. Now this can be done theoretically by tackling the guy, or using blunt weapons like purses. But we know the best way to stop a guy with a gun is another guy with a gun, preferably more. Since that particular solution is distasteful to the libs in charge of theses things, I predict they will go with the unarmed violence suggestion, just like they suggest at some colleges now. If one sees an armed individual shooting bystanders, tackle or hit them.


The rational thought of actually meeting the bad guys force with equal or greater force than your own will never be considered by the" experts" be in their minds, gun=bad. To them, it's as simple as that.

 

[86thecat]

Not sure if the average mall security guard carrying a gun is a good idea.

Maybe they could hire some off duty or retired LEO as armed security.

And allow CCW.

(If they start strip searches I'm hanging out by Victorias Secret for the floor show!)

 

[Lurp]

I don't even see how metal detectors would do anything. Think about it...if you have unarmed guards working the metal detector how could they stop a guy with an SKS? The guy walks threw ::Beep Beep:: and pulls out his SKS and opens fire while everyone runs screaming. The only possible way to dampen the effects of a random act of violence is to allow CCW or have armed security guards. I said "dampen" beacuase these crimes cannot be stopped, you can only try and minimize the effects.

 

[AlaskaErik]

While some mall owners have increased training of security personnel and have upgraded their emergency systems, many security experts believe more should and can be done. Those experts suggest it's a matter of money. They say until shoppers start staying away, mall owners will not make significant changes.

Go ahead and make changes. Give me even more reasons to not go to a mall. Online merchants would love it if malls had metal detectors and pat searches at their entrances.