Neck Sizing Question

[rwdwrt]

:banghead:I have just started trying the neck sizing of some 308 Lapua Brass. The Die is an RCBS, I have cleaned it and inspected it with a light as best i can. Looking into the die it seems smooth and clean, but after resizing a case the neck has lines running along the neck length wise all around. Is this normal for neck sizing case? I know when I full length resize the case these lines do not occur.





Thanks

 

[taliv]

mine don't do that when i neck size

 

[stubbicatt]

I think your die is defective. Or else has some abrasive smuts up in the sizing area. Would clean it really well, and if I still get those scrapes, send it to RCBS for repair or replacement, along with one of your cases so that they can see what is happening. They have very good customer service there.

 

[ranger335v]

Die walls are rarely scratched, they are just too hard. Your die has bits of brass clinging to it. It's called "galling" and means you failed to provide enough case lube so dry brass pushed over dry steel and resulted in the clinging bits adhereing to the die. That's what has scratched your cases and, once started, it will only get worse and the case scoring will get deeper, weaking the brass unless you correct the problem. You can lap out the offending bits of brass at home.

Take a 6" length of 5/16" dowel rod and saw a narrow 1" long slot in one end with a hacksaw. Insert a 2-3" length of 400 or 600 grit silicon carbide paper in the slot, use enough to make it a really snug fitting lap in your die's neck. Chuck the other end in an electric drill. Put a spritz of light oil on the paper and rapidly spin your improvised lap in the die for a couple of minutes to polish out the brass bits. Try to keep the dowel fairly well centered in the die.

Clean the die from all abrasive, then lube and size a case. The scratches should be much improved, maybe even gone. Or you may have to repeat the effort a couple of times. You can bring the die to a mirror polish with finer grits of paper. To look deep inside the die, remove the decap assembly and stuff a bit of white tissue into the neck, it will reflect sufficent light back to let you see things you couldn't otherwise detect, including the degree of internal polishing you achieve.

Don't be concerned about damaging the die, you won't. And it's already damaged isn't it? Actually, the die wall is case hardened so hard the light lapping you will be doing will remove little or no steel, it just polishes away the galled brass.

I get fine grits of silicon carbide paper (a black "sandpaper") in Walmarts auto paint section. The spay carb cleaner is there too, it's a buck and change for a can and well worth it for die cleaning on any loading bench.

For case lube, I like Imperial Die Wax but Kiwi "Mink Oil" (sold for boots) is about the same product. So is "Sno-Proff" boot treatment. All three are soft waxes. They work very good as case lube to prevent sticking or galling and are easy to clean off afterwards.

I spray WD-40 in my dies to reduce rusting before putting them away. They get a spray a of cheap carborator cleaner in them before use, then a bit of toilet tissue wrapped around a pencil wipes the interior clean and it's ready to go, all in a few seconds.

Lube your cases better next time, and keep the die clean too.

 

[RecoilRob]

I would have agreed with the galling idea if I hadn't copied and blown up the pics. The lines on the necks are regularly spaced with rounded ends. No way it is brass galled as that would be random.

If it were me, I'd Email RCBS with the pics and see what they say. It may actually be intentionally done for some reason that escapes my logic at the moment. Only they can say.

But, experience with RCBS customer service was very positive. Nice people and a good company. Don't worry about contacting them with the problem.

 

[Walkalong]

Bad die, trash in die, lack of lube, but not good whatever it is.

 

[Fatelvis]

RCBS has the best customer care that I've ever dealt with. Tell them, and they'll replace it w/a new one. No charge, even for shipping.

 

[Wildfire]

Scracthes

There may be one other possibility. If that brass was new and had a ruff edge to start with the ruff burrs may have followed into the die. If so, try and bevel that case mouth before sizing, may clear up, if not the die must have a problem. Not saying it can't happen but have never seen brass gal onto a die. Yet. I shouldn't have said that, Now I will.

Took another look at cases. Looks like bad die.............

 

[rwdwrt]

Update

:banghead: Update ......... Had the die replaced with a new one from Cabela's since that is where I got it. FYI, talked to RCBS and they said send it in and they would take care of it also. Got the new die back, but it also puts the same lines on the case neck, go figure ........ Im lubing the necks, and cleaning before sizing. So now its either send to RCBS and have them polish the die, or do it myself ........ or Im inclined to just get a different brand of die. Thinking maybe Redding or Forster.

Also found a few cases that seem to have the neck out of alignment :banghead: noticed it when trimming caes on the Redding 2400 trimmer w/micrometer, thought it maybe the trimmer at first, never had this problem while trimming on my old C&H trimmer (same as Wilson w/case holder). What causes the neck to do this?, shouldnt the die straighten this out? ......... hence my consideration for the new die, maybe a die with the sleeve to help with the concetricity

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

If you are using very expensive brass like lapua why cut corners on anything else?
The old saying goes buy once cry once!
I know your pain and its frustrating as you are trying to improve the quality of your reloadings and then run into a problem. Then you are trying to figure it out at the most likely cause. I would just buy the redding with the interchangible neck inserts to adjust neck tensive how you want it.
If the lapua cases which I am sure were pretty straight when new are coming out bent after trimming I would figure out what the problem is there?
Are you trimming before you size?
My opinion and there are some better experts here than me is if you are getting galling something is not right in either the case prep, Die alignment or lube to cause galling.

 

[Doug b]

I put rcbs dies at the bottom of my list of preferred right under Lee. I've had this problem with rcbs,lyman,hornady,lee, but not redding.

 

[wdl1]

I had the same problem with a Redding Series-A neck sizing die with new, unfired Lapua and Remington brass in 6.5x55. I polished the die with some flitz and it helped a little, but it still left lots of vertical striations on the case neck just like yours. It only left the scratches on new brass though and fired brass worked fine. If you have any fired brass, you might want to see if you experience the same problem.

Run out was pretty bad though (as much as 0.008"), so I ended up returning the Redding and getting some Lee Collets instead. I'd like to try Redding's bushing system, but I don't neck-turn and only have factory barrels right now, so the Lee Collet seemed to be the logical path to go for now.

 

[USSR]

I'd like to try Redding's bushing system, but I don't neck-turn and only have factory barrels right now...

No reason not to use bushing dies, simply because you don't turn your brass or have a factory barrel. Using bushings to control the amount of neck tension, will benefit you no matter what the rifle is.

Don

 

[wdl1]

No reason not to use bushing dies, simply because you don't turn your brass or have a factory barrel. Using bushings to control the amount of neck tension, will benefit you no matter what the rifle is.

Thanks for the reply.

I was under the impression that bushing systems suffer loss consistent neck tension and concentricity from non-turned brass since the thicker portions of brass are pushed inward with the bushing system (which is then pushed back out after you seat the bullet). For adjustable neck tension though, I was thinking of getting additional mandrels from Lee and just polishing them down to varying sizes.

I was thinking of holding off the bushing dies until I get a tight-neck custom barrel down the road, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not my impression of bushing systems and non-turned brass have any validity.

 

[tjj]

I neck size .308 Lapua casings with the Redding comp bushing die and they look perfect. The finish looks burnished / shiny like in a carbide die.
The striations in the above photos look like they may be caused by poorly finished die. There may be machine burs at the leading edge of the swaging bore.
As stated above, send the die and sample casing to RCBS and I'll bet they'll send you a good one right away.

 

[USSR]

I was under the impression that bushing systems suffer loss consistent neck tension and concentricity from non-turned brass since the thicker portions of brass are pushed inward with the bushing system (which is then pushed back out after you seat the bullet).

And this differs from the situation with regular dies in what way? With regular dies, you reduce the neck diameter to less than you want (where "the thicker portions of brass are pushed inward"), then drag a nasty expander ball thru your what were straight necks (where the thicker portions are "then pushed back out"). So, you seating your bullets in questionably straight necks, with the thicker portions on the outside diameter of the necks.

With my bushing dies, the first thing I do is remove the decapping pin and expander ball. All brass is deprimed using a Universal Decapping Die. I then insert the correct size bushing for the brass being used and type of rifle (boltguns get light neck tension, autoloaders get heavier). Since there is no expander ball to contend with, I reduce the necks to exactly the diameter needed to provide the proper amount of neck tension. The necks are worked MUCH LESS. When the bullet is seated, it acts just like a mandrel and forces the thicker portions to the outside as indicated. In either case, the thicker portion of the neck ends up on the outside. Shooting at 1,000 yards has not shown any problems with this method that I am aware of.

Don