Neck Tension on 30-06

[Pat M]

I just started reloading my first 30-06 rounds for the Garand, 150 gr. Hornady FMJBT, 47 gr. IMR 4895, OAL of 3.190", and I am having a problem with neck tension. OAL was fine initially, I had turned the Lee seating die in 1/4 turn to apply a taper crimp, and the crimp is visible. Problem is that the bullet is spinning in the cannelure and can be moved .020 in and out of the neck. Can someone suggest what I am doing wrong in terms of resizing the brass, or in the bullet seating process? I am using the Lee two die set. Thanks.

 

[MEHavey]

Number 1: With standard/normal neck tension, the Garand needs no crimp at all.

Number 2: unless you are seating/crimping in two steps (with the seater plug screwed out while crimping) you are likely belling the neck at bit as the seating plug tries to set an already-crimped bullet deeper.

Number 3: See Number 1 above.

 

[USSR]

Number 1: With standard/normal neck tension, the Garand needs no crimp at all.

+1. Ignore the cannelure.

Don

 

[Funshooter45]

Agree. Measure your inside diameter of the neck of your sized primed case before you seat it. It should measure somewhere around 0.303" to 0.305". Assuming your bullet measures right at 0.308", then you are good to go. Just seat it and shoot it. Trying to apply a crimp is probably messing up a perfectly good neck. Just make sure the necks are somewhere between 3-5 thousandths smaller than the bullet and you're good to go. Otherwise there's something wrong with your sizing technique.

 

[Pat M]

Thanks guys. I'll give it another try later. I've been reloading match ammo for the AR for several years with great success. This is my first attempt at 30-06.

 

[gamestalker]

It sounds like you have the resizing die improperely adjusted. At full stroke on the press, the shell holder should be touching the resizing die.
And regarding crimp, it's not necessary. Pay attention to OAL keeping in mind that you deffinitely don't want to touch the lands while trying to stay a smidge above minimum OAL. Forget that the canelure even exists and focus on a functional OAL.

 

[USSR]

Pay attention to OAL keeping in mind that you deffinitely don't want to touch the lands while trying to stay a smidge above minimum OAL.

He's loading for an M1 Garand. Anything loaded to an OAL that fits in the internal magazine, is not going to be long enough to contact the lands.

Don

 

[rcmodel]

It might be that your expander plug is too big.

It should measure .002" - .003" smaller then bullet diameter.

If it isn't, make it so with a spinning drill and emery paper.

rc

 

[rocklock]

What RCmodel said. But first, try loading up some without a crimp, then jack a loaded round into the chamber after measuring OAL. Then remove the loaded round and measure again. If the bullet has moved forward from the inertia of the shell being slammed into the chamber, then spin the expander plug down .001" or so, or more as needed. Also check unfired rounds left in the magazine for length after firing a few, because the recoil can unseat the bullets a little also. Be sure to polish up the expander plug with 600-800 grit wet and dry paper if you size it down.

 

[blarby]

"It sounds like you have the resizing die improperely adjusted. At full stroke on the press, the shell holder should be touching the resizing die."

^^ good advice ^^

Neck diameter .340 in (8.6 mm)

Case length 2.494 in (63.3 mm)

Overall length 3.34 in (85 mm)

 

[ranger335v]

Adjusting a FL die down to the shell holder will affect how much the shoulder is set back but it won't do a thing to the final inside diameter of the neck.

 

[blarby]

Correct.

 

[gamestalker]

+1 Blarby
"Adjusting the die so the shell holder will touch will only bump the shoulder back"
Not completely correct. I've had several experiences with friends getting started in hand loading and had severe neck tension problems. The issue was the die wasn't adjusted down enough which was the reason the necks were not getting resized enough as a direct result. A little bit won't have much if any effect on the neck tension, but if the die is too far off the shell holder it will not resized the neck, absolutely, positively will not! Try it!
And even though this isn't pertinent to the thread, if he is loading for an auto loading rifle he will want to resize the entire case, including bumping the shoulder back. So bringing the die down to contact with the shell holder is necessary and the correct adjustment procedure for an auto loading action. That is also why we don't neck size for auto loader's.
M1 or not, he still needs to know that longer OAL's are not recomended for an auto loading rifle. It sounds as though he may be rather new to reloading so he needs good coverage of proper procedure. Checking the expander plug, making sure the die is adjusted properely is good sound advice.

 

[Pat M]

So I went back and re-adjusted the sizing die according to the instructions, threading the die down until it touches the shell holder plus 1/4 turn. The resized case had an interior neck diameter of .305 inches. I then re-adjusted the seating die according to the instructions for no crimp, threading the die down until it made contact with the case mouth, then out 1/2 turn. I adjusted the bullet depth using the depth-adjustment knob, and again, the head is spinning in the neck and can be moved in and out .020 inches. I will not be firing these rounds. I also measured the Hornady 150 gr. bullets and they measure a perfect .308. I've given the dies to my shooting partner to let him try...we'll see if he has similar results. When I get the dies back I'll measure the expander. Thanks for the input. Again, I've been reloading handgun ammo for 20 years, and match rounds for the AR for several years, and this is a problem I've not encountered before.

 

[gamestalker]

According to the inside neck measurement your getting of .305" you shouldn't be having any issues. That is more than enough to hold a .308 bullet. Have you measured your bullets? I've never run into bullets that were under sized. Didn't you say you are crimping them? If so you might have something adjusted wrong with the seating die and it could be expanding the neck some how. Never been down that road so can't really suggest a solution other than trying to seat without any crimp at all as follows.
Put a case without the bullet in the shell holder and extend the ram to full stroke. Back out your seating plug as far as you can and then screw the seating die in until you feel it contact the case. Now back it out a half turn or so. Now put a bullet in the case and keep extending the ram to full stroke as your adjusting the seating plug down. Keep going until until your seating to the depth desired. There is no way it won't be providing enough neck tension with an inside diameter of .305", I promise.

 

[Pat M]

I hate to bring this up again, but I am experiencing this same issue with both 30-06 and .308, loaded with Hornady 150 FMJBT's. They are so loose, that the bullet gets pushed in when I measure overall length with the caliper. What I don't understand, however, is that the same seating die, and the same resized brass, works perfectly well with the Hornady 168 match bullets. I can press the 168's into the table, measure them, no change in depth. The seating die is screwed down until it touches the case mouth, then back out 1/2 turn so as not to apply a crimp. I read in another thread that perhaps I should back it out further. Could this be a problem with the bullets? All measure .308. I am going to take apart the full-length sizing die to clean and measure the expander plug. As far as adjusting the full length resizing die, I have it set so as to push the shoulder back .004 inches on a once-fired case. The simple solution would be to simply stick to 168 grain match (they're more accurate anyway), but this neck tension issue is frustrating and I want to solve it!

 

[USSR]

The seating die is screwed down until it touches the case mouth, then back out 1/2 turn so as not to apply a crimp.

Huh? You mean the seating die is screwed down until it touches the case holder, don't you? In any case (no pun intended), it sounds like you are seating your bullets too deep. The light .30 caliber FMJBT bullets have a short body on them, and if you seat them too deep you end up with the ogive in the case neck, which will make for a loose bullet.

Don

 

[MEHavey]

The seating die is screwed down until it touches the case mouth, then back out 1/2 turn so as not to apply a crimp.

Huh? You mean the seating die is screwed down until it touches the case holder,...

Negative. You put a case in the shell holder and run it all the way up (with the seater die screwed way out). Then screw the die body down until the (internal) crimping ledge just touches the case mouth. Any further and you will definitely crimp the neck.

The reason you back off 1/4-1/2 turn is to ensure case length variances don't cause accidental crimping.

NOW you adjust the seater screw to produce the desired bullet seating depth.

 

[murf]

measure the o.d. of a sized case. seat your bullet. measure the o.d. again. second measurement should be .002" to .003" more than the first (your neck tension).

murf

 

[gamestalker]

Try this. Put a resized case without a bullet in the shell holder and then fully extend the press ram to full stroke. Now with the ram at full stroke, thread your seating die in until you feel it contact the case mouth. Once it contacts the case mouth back it out 1 to 1 1/2 turns and then lock it down. Now with bullet seating plug backed out nearly all the way place a bullet in the case mouth and go full stroke again and if the seating plug didn't contact the bullet start turning the seating plug down until you feel it contact the bullet. Once it contacts the bullet bring the arm back down and begin making adjustments to the seating plug, turning it in until the bullet is seated to the depth you desire.
Being that you said you are having the same issue with the .308 I'm more inclined to think the problem is with the seating die adjustment. The one element of seating I've noticed most common for new reloaders to experience, is confusing the seating plug adjustment, with the crimp adjusment, which will often result in the same issue your experiencing.
Just remember that the die body creates the crimp and the seating plug is for seating depth.

 

[USSR]

You put a case in the shell holder and run it all the way up (with the seater die screwed way out). Then screw the die body down until the (internal) crimping ledge just touches the case mouth.

Hmm, never done it that way.

Don

 

[ssyoumans]

Is it possible during the sizing operation that the neck is forming a taper and is not consistently sized for the full length of the neck? OP states the bullet is tight until his seating depth caused the mouth of the case to sit in the bullet cannelure. Then the bullet flops around in the cannelure, being able to push/pull it .020, the width of the cannelure.
I think he needs to measure the OD of the neck in several places down the neck. Is it even possible to form a tapered neck while resizing? Sounds like he has mouth tension and not neck tension.

I've experience a similar problem when loading Barnes TSX bullets. Bullets sit tight as long as you don't load to the prescribed OAL which puts the mouth in the wide cannelure. I now load it a little longer so the mouth isn't in the cannelure and it sits tight, not great, but ok for a bolt rifle. I don't have this problem with any other 243's, just the TSX bullets. I don't plan to buy anymore TSX's, never could figure it out.

 

[Pat M]

ssyoumans provides the best description of what I am experiencing, and it is only with the Hornady 150 gr. FMJBT's (there's less bearing surface than the 168s). I took Gamstalker's advise and backed the seating die out 2 full turns after making contact with the case mouth, and it still happens. Now, interesting variable......I just loaded a few using PMC, Remington, and Lake City brass. What I found is that the Lake City does not budge, but the PMC and Remington are not gripping the bullet (perhaps ticker brass with LC). USSR, here's the instructions that Lee provided with the die: "Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it touch the case mouth. if no crimp is desired, back the die out 1/2 turn. If a crimp is desired, turn the die in 1/4 turn." I backed it out 2 full turns and used the bullet seating plug for the desired depth. I just took the resizing die apart, and the expander plug measures .307 at its widest point (that seems too large to me). I'm going to his it with some emery paper in the drill.

 

[243winxb]

FL size brass without the expander. Measure outside neck diameter. Seat bullet. Has the neck diameter gotten bigger by .002" or more. If no, you have a bad FL die. Seating the bullet to deep into the case can cause the bearing surface of the bullet to loose contact with the neck wall, loss of neck tension. The expander button at .307" should be ok with brass spring back, but taking it down to .306" will not hurt a thing,in fact, even better for ammo to be used in an auto loader.

 

[USSR]

USSR, here's the instructions that Lee provided with the die: "Screw the bullet seating die in until you feel it touch the case mouth. if no crimp is desired, back the die out 1/2 turn. If a crimp is desired, turn the die in 1/4 turn." I backed it out 2 full turns and used the bullet seating plug for the desired depth. I just took the resizing die apart, and the expander plug measures .307 at its widest point (that seems too large to me). I'm going to his it with some emery paper in the drill.

Well, if that's what Lee says to do. I don't use Lee dies because of their stupid lock ring. You should end up with about a .365" inside neck diameter, so polishing the expander plug sounds like a good idea.

Don