Necks Did Not Expand

[Poconolg]

Shot my 22-250 last week. Used 33.5gr 4894 and none of the necks expanded after shooting. It is as if I already neck sized them. I have been reloading rifle for 43 years and this has never happened. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this happened. The brass is Lapua that has been loaded 4 times.

 

[reloaded_in_pa]

Were they fired from the same rifle ?

 

[Poconolg]

Yes. Same rifle Lilja Barrel 1500 shots thru this barrel most days shoot under half inch

 

[lordpaxman]

Have they been annealed? My 22-250 case necks are pretty tight after shooting, that was Win brass and I finally figured I needed to anneal them to keep neck tension consistent. I would think it’d also have to do with how tight the chamber is and how thick the brass is.

 

[JFrank]

Shot my 22-250 last week. Used 33.5gr 4894 and none of the necks expanded after shooting. It is as if I already neck sized them. I have been reloading rifle for 43 years and this has never happened. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this happened. The brass is Lapua that has been loaded 4 times.

Are these light loads?
What bullet are you running?
When was the last time you cleaned the carbon build up out of the throat ?
I wouldn't take a blow torch to my good brass quite yet.

 

[JDinFbg]

Do you FL resize every time, or just 'optimally size' to allow easy chambering in your specific rifle? Have these cases previously been used for some relative 'hot' loads? Depending on the answer to these questions, I can see several things happening. 4 firings is not excessive for most center-fire rifle cartridges, but this kind of depends on the cartridge and how it has been reloaded and shot. Brass work-hardens and becomes less ductile with use and can become 'springy'. If your chamber has a fairly tight neck, the brass may expand slightly during firing to release the bullet but spring back to effectively the sized state. Brass is somewhat 'fluid' and when FL resizing, the brass gets compressed and tends flow from the body-shoulder into the neck region of the case. Brass can also 'grow' from shooting fairly hot loads, and the 22-250 is one of the more extreme (large case volume to bore ratio) cartridges. Over time the brass in the neck can become thicker which causes the loaded cartridge to have a tighter fit in the chamber thus not allowing for much expansion during firing. So, annealing the brass (I'd say they're due after 4 firings of a 22-250) , checking the neck thickness, and either turning or reaming the necks may be warranted and resolve the issue you are seeing.

 

[Poconolg]

I anneal after each firing. There are over 1500 rounds thru this barrel. I neck size only and clean the barrel every 25 shots. Length is check after each firing. The brass has been turned and inside reamed.

 

[JDinFbg]

I anneal after each firing. There are over 1500 rounds thru this barrel. I neck size only and clean the barrel every 25 shots. Length is check after each firing. The brass has been turned and inside reamed.

Hmmmm. I guess I'm out of ideas then, other than your rifle chamber may have fairly tight neck which does not allow for much expansion during firing. But from your initial post, I gather you only noted this when shooting cartridges loaded with 4894, so I gather you see some expansion when using other powders.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have 1 gun that I built that does the same thing, 224V. It's a rare occurrence when you hit every thing just right. You will get great brass life, even FL sizing. I FL size on mine since I don't have a Neck die or Bushing die for this caliber. My fired brass will chamber like sized brass. The only difference I have in mine is the neck is 0.0005" larger, so minimal neck sizing is going on.

 

[Walkalong]

Necks too fat?

 

[JFrank]

Shot my 22-250 last week. Used 33.5gr 4894 and none of the necks expanded after shooting. It is as if I already neck sized them. I have been reloading rifle for 43 years and this has never happened. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this happened. The brass is Lapua that has been loaded 4 times.

I wondering if this is a light load that's why I asked what bullet weight you are running with this 33.5 gr of powder. ( 4894 ?)

 

[Poconolg]

Bullet is 52gr

 

[Rule3]

I anneal after each firing. There are over 1500 rounds thru this barrel. I neck size only and clean the barrel every 25 shots. Length is check after each firing. The brass has been turned and inside reamed.

I am not a rifle neck anneal person so I know nothing. Is it common practice to do that every time? Doesn't that take a toll on the brass?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I am not a rifle neck anneal person so I know nothing. Is it common practice to do that every time? Doesn't that take a toll on the brass?

Depends on a long list of variables but the answer typically is, maybe.
In all seriousness, annealing takes place every trigger pull with some chambers and is never needed with others. It just depends.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Bullet is 52gr

Brass flow? Have you checked the neck thickness each loading? Only thing I can think of

 

[Varminterror]

Is it common practice to [anneal] every time? Doesn't that take a toll on the brass?

You have this backwards; Annealing prevents firing from taking a toll on the brass.

 

[JFrank]

I am not a rifle neck anneal person so I know nothing. Is it common practice to do that every time? Doesn't that take a toll on the brass?

The OP says the necks have been turned, reamed then had a torch taken to them. What could possibly go wrong after all that.

 

[Rule3]

You have this backwards; Annealing prevents firing from taking a toll on the brass.

So it is SOP to anneal after every single firing?
After 4 reloads it is necessary to anneal? I have 556 brass with a lot more reloads on them that have never been annealed.

 

[243winxb]

22-250 last week. Used 33.5gr 4894

Bullet is 52gr

If 4895 Powder? Its a starting load. Starting loads & light for caliber bullets don't expand necks fully. Brass has a memory & springs back.

 

[Varminterror]

So it is SOP to anneal after every single firing?
After 4 reloads it is necessary to anneal? I have 556 brass with a lot more reloads on them that have never been annealed.

If you want your neck tension to behave consistently from one firing to the next to ensure your primary ignition also remains the same from one firing to the next, yes, annealing every firing is a known Leading Practice.

Annealing every multiple firings - such as the every 4 firings you mentioned - is largely a misguided attempt at increasing brass life, under the premise preventing split necks increases brass life. This can be more easily solved by using appropriately sized neck bushings in the sizing die and a mandrel expander, effectively eliminating the value of intermittent, multi firing annealing to “add case life.” I started annealing that way ~20yrs ago, but have largely given up on the practice. I either anneal every firing, or not at all, dependent upon my application for the ammo.

Playing with 5.56 and making noise isn’t very dependent upon consistency. I don’t anneal my blasting ammo either.

 

[JFrank]

I agree with the light load not expanding the necks being a logical conclusion, brass developing memory which could be interpreted as the opposite of spring back. Perhaps after turning , reaming and annealing there just might not be enough strength left in the brass to have either one.

Just a thought..

 

[Rule3]

If you want your neck tension to behave consistently from one firing to the next to ensure your primary ignition also remains the same from one firing to the next, yes, annealing every firing is a known Leading Practice.

Annealing every multiple firings - such as the every 4 firings you mentioned - is largely a misguided attempt at increasing brass life, under the premise preventing split necks increases brass life. This can be more easily solved by using appropriately sized neck bushings in the sizing die and a mandrel expander, effectively eliminating the value of intermittent, multi firing annealing to “add case life.” I started annealing that way ~20yrs ago, but have largely given up on the practice. I either anneal every firing, or not at all, dependent upon my application for the ammo.

Playing with 5.56 and making noise isn’t very dependent upon consistency. I don’t anneal my blasting ammo either.

Who said playing and blasting?
If I had said 308 Win or 223 Rem in a target rifle, would that meet your standards

 

[Varminterror]

brass developing memory which could be interpreted as the opposite of spring back.

Usually we see that memory developed at the max diameter, not a minimum - so the memory wants to be bigger dia, rather than shrinking back. Naturally, the neck does spring back DOWN between max pressure and extraction, but we can typically watch brass come out of sizing dies larger than the bushing or known neck dia (springback), AND equally, when we mandrel expand, it’ll take the larger diameter much easier. Hardened brass might not expand as much, but the same exposures in either direction tend to make mouths bigger far more often than smaller. Springback resisting the sizer is typically greater than springback resisting expansion - which suggests the memory is bigger, not smaller.

I’m on the “low pressure load failed to expand hard brass” boat for this one.

 

[Rule3]

As to annealing, Hornady states it is not necessary until after 8 or so firings and then after the same amount of reloads.

Lyman states to not anneal at all. as the cases will be near the end use.

 

[Varminterror]

As to annealing, Hornady states it is not necessary until after 8 or so firings and then after the same amount of reloads.

The Hornady claim referenced here is only intended to increase case life (pg 78 Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading version X). However, your neck tension and seating force will change considerably, and seating between a 0x or 1x fired Hornady case might be 1/4 of the force required to seat in a 6x fired case when using the same neck tension. You might imagine, quadrupling the seating force corresponds to a significant increase in resistance to primary ignition.

So as I stated above - if you want your brass to behave consistently from one firing to the next, anneal every firing. If you simply believe you will increase your case life by eliminating split necks and shoulders (which I don’t believe to be true for cases well sized for their respective chambers), then anneal every 4-6 firings. For blasting ammo, don’t anneal. 3 distinct options for 3 specific applications.