Need 9mm and 357 Mag seating dies that seat via ogive, not meplat

[GeoDudeFlorida]

This is the first time I recall seeing anyone so fervently chase such precision with a progressive press. It may not be the die's fault.

Even Dillon doesn’t claim that the 750 will produce pistol rounds capable of one hole groups. Match grade is their claim.

Speed… precision… pick one.

I recall there was a discussion a while back about which was more nearly capable of high precision and the general consensus among the progressive press users was that it was a balancing act: the right setup with the right settings operated by the right person was just as capable of producing highly precise cartridges as any comparable single-stage. Maybe even more so. In short, it’s not the equipment, it’s the operator and the combination of components that tips the scales.

 

[higgite]

I recall there was a discussion a while back about which was more nearly capable of high precision and the general consensus among the progressive press users was that it was a balancing act: the right setup with the right settings operated by the right person was just as capable of producing highly precise cartridges as any comparable single-stage. Maybe even more so. In short, it’s not the equipment, it’s the operator and the combination of components that tips the scales.

I have read similar discussions to this one, as I’m sure you have, about making precision ammo on progressive and turret presses. The consensus in the articles and threads that I have read is, all being equal, turrets and progressives will never be as precise as SS presses simply because there must be some clearance (air gap) built in to allow rotation of the turret or the shell plate. If you eliminate that clearance, the turret or shell plate can’t be rotated, so you would in effect have a single stage press anyway.

I certainly agree with you that the “the right person” certainly matters when making precision ammo, but I think that even that person will make “better” ammo with a SS than with a progressive or a turret. Especially with a progressive that has so many operations happening at the same time that influence each other. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have read similar discussions to this one, as I’m sure you have, about making precision ammo on progressive and turret presses. The consensus in the articles and threads that I have read is, all being equal, turrets and progressives will never be as precise as SS presses simply because there must be some clearance (air gap) built in to allow rotation of the turret or the shell plate. If you eliminate that clearance, the turret or shell plate can’t be rotated, so you would in effect have a single stage press anyway.

I certainly agree with you that the “the right person” certainly matters when making precision ammo, but I think that even that person will make “better” ammo with a SS than with a progressive or a turret. Especially with a progressive that has so many operations happening at the same time that influence each other. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

I’ve never tried a progressive or turret press - I lack both the need and the desire for either - so I have to go by what the people who have used all of the above have to say. I will say, having worked with both radios and milling machines, a sliding fit is not necessarily air gapped. It’s about fit and proper maintenance.

 

[mcb]

I know several PRS shooter that are using a variety of turret and progressive presses to load their competition ammo. Properly setup a good progress press can absolutely produce high quality ammunition. Several of the small boutique reloaders use Dillon 1050 with the power system as commercial small batch production machines. They are very repeatable when setup correctly. Nothing about the turning shell plate should effect OAL assuming the shell plate is made correctly. Not that different than that little bit of play that is in the shell holder on top of the ram in a single stage press.

 

[roval]

I don't own a Ransom rest. 50 yards from a bag rest showed the variation clearly enough to be definitive and repeatable.

Jim G

3/4 inch groups at 50 yrds - granted this is factory ammo and with 147 grainers but with the same model gun shot on a ransom rest by the ransom rest channel( so you know the rest was set up properly) you are outshooting a mechanical rest. even with the best group (hornady ammo) and taking out the flyers... best group was still around 2 inches.

interesting in that the initial hand racked round is frequently a flier as the cartridge is seated differently compared to subsequent rounds( the guy explained it in a different video)

 

[JimGnitecki]

Yes, the "repeatability and superiority" of the Ransom rest is not nearly as good as the maker likes to claim.

Jim G

 

[Jim Watson]

Ransom Rest Trivia:

Back when I had access to a Ransom Rest, FLG and I ran a little test. We set up a good tight 19111oid and instead of depending on the rest returning to battery, we laid each shot with a scope sight in V blocks on top of the slide. Accuracy was improved.
He was planning to make rigid rest inserts out of aluminum or Delrin to fit an individual gun, but we lost the range about that time.

A friend's revolver Ransom Rested very well with ammunition it "liked" even though a Mere Taurus. No moving parts.
My High Standard Supermatic Military shot very well out of the rest, no recoil.

Back when revolvers were more common, there was a rest - Phelps, maybe - that held the gun upside down by the barrel.