Need a Book to Explain the Legal Repercussions of CCW

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JLStorm

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My wife is carrying for work for a private company. They treat CCW as no big deal and she doesnt understand the legal issues associated with a shoot. They allow her to carry, they do not require it, and I dont expect that they will be in her corner should she need to defend herself.

I would love for her to read this board, but I know that isnt going to happen. I was hoping there was a book out there that would explain the aftermath of a shoot and the ugly face of the legal system, especially the likeliness for lawsuits. She will be getting more firearms training, but no course I have been to explains the scope of the legal system like the time I have put in reading over the years.

Any suggestions?
 
Just one book?

Mas Ayoob's The Truth About Self-Protection, http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-S...90/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1/002-0327435-7758470.

In the Gravest Extreme is good, if dated (well, The Truth About Self-Protectionis dated as well). Maybe Paxton Quigley, but I found her work sort of bland.

BTW, it sounds like you need LFI-1. LFI-1 had more time spent on the subject of self-defense (from all aspects) than I received in law school. Highly recommended. Ayoob Files is good for the aftermath, Problem #2 (she may find it "too bloody" but, heck, she is carrying a deadly weapon now so she needs to get ready for it).
 
You and her need a consult with a lawyer in your state. He will explain the law and repercusions. Also it lets you claim "under the advice of legal counsel" in the law suits that will result from a shoot. Yes there will be lawsuits that is the nature now f this country.
 
I reccomend she attend LFI 1. It's really the best training on these issues your going to find. Even just the classroom portion, "The Judicious Use of Deadly Force," would be great.

I like Ayoob's books, but "In the Gravest Extreme" is getting pretty dated.

Chris Birds, "The Concealed Handgun Manual" might be a good choice. It's available at the big bookstores likes B&N, Borders, etc, and on Amazon.
 
Get a recommendation for an attorney

From a gun-owners' organization in your state. Pay him/her. Listen to their advice. To really be safe, you may want to inquire about the cost of pre-paying for a one-use retainer (I'm sure there's a technical term for it, the idea is that you pay in advance for the ability to call the lawyer of your choice if she is ever required to fire her gun in self-defense, and to have them come to you.) That way, if the worst should happen, when the police get there, you can say,

"On the advice of counsel, I decline to answer any questions without my attorney present. He/she is on his/her way."

Or whatever specific words your attorney advises you to use.

And then shut up.

Lawyers get a lot of heat, and maybe more so from gunfolk than from the general population. A great deal of that heat is deserved. But believe me, you don't want to have to interact with the law without one, and best if it's a lawyer who you're paying for. Remember, if you are forced to defend yourself with deadly force, you are potentially a criminal suspect. Better for you if you treat "potential" as "actual" and behave accordingly. Whether it should be that way or not, it often is.

--Shannon
 
ok whats that?

BTW, it sounds like you need LFI-1
Click to expand...

Tell her to keep her mouth shut if she does shoot, only a "I was afraid for my life" and lawyer up.

You're right, the company will not be in her corner, they will be lawyering up and shutting up because of lawsuits.
 
I would love her to take LFI-1 and a few other courses, but the truth is its not going to happen. She just isnt going to pay that much at this point in the game (we have a joint account, so me buying it for her will piss her off just as much and make want to learn even less). She is ok with my training at Blackwater which costs more than LFI, but for some reason she just refuses to allow that money to go towards herself at this point in her learning process. I am hoping that maybe with a good book it will open her eyes and make her want to get more training than her employer requires, which just isnt enough for my taste.

I know I will get a lot of negative comments about what I should get her to do, but she is a big girl who has the right to carry a gun and I cannot mandate training or classroom activity beyond what the state requires, I can only suggest and hope she listens. At this point a book is as far as she is willing to go to learn about the laws.
 
As another poster has noted, Paxton Quigley's "Armed and Female" is a virtual manifesto for women with guns. Another great book in the same vein is "Effective Defense" by Gila Hayes.

El Tejon, thanks for the kind words. I notice you're in Lafayette. Does Tom Burdine still teach Aikido there?

Best to all,
Mas
 
+1 on ask a local attorney. Not only are state laws vastly different, but the political leanings of your local officials may determine whether you end up in cuffs or with a pat on the back, even in a good shoot.
 
It never ceases to amaze me that Massad Ayoob takes the time to read this stuff. I always feel like I have gotten an autograph when he replies to my threads lol. Thank you Mr. Ayoob for you input.

in response to others as far as the attorney, we are going to do that as well. I have the name of an attorney recommended by an instructor in my area who I respect and trust. I still want her to go the book route in addition to an attorney. I just dont see an attorney sharing as much knowledge as a good book, especially with the CYA mentality that I expect to get from any lawyer. Have others experienced different results from attorneys regarding this issue?

Edit: BTW I already own in the gravest extreme and stressfire, but I really want a book that concentrates mostly on the legal issues so that she doesnt get a sensory overload from one book that covers such a broad range of topics. I am saving in the gravest extreme for her second book, and I hope she decides she wants to read it. She always laughs at me in a cute way when she sees me reading these types of books as if to say...."your so strange its cute, why on earth would you read that", and that doesnt make me confident that she has any intention of reading them, but I hope she changes her mind.
 
Mas, yes, still in Lafayette. You may remember me, Kirk, I'm the friend of John and Jean and was at LFI-1 in Winamac years ago with them. I'm also the guy whose Smiths Denny R. worked on. I went to law school in Chicago with Jean; they are well and living in Dallas (I saw them last summer), finally out of Chicago much to John's relief.

Tom Burdine still teaches downtown Lafayette. His school is on Fourth Street. I think he still travels to give seminars too.

I've meet Mr. Burdine a couple of times and even though we study different systems (I'm CMA, studying qin na under Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming), he was very interested in my experiences and a true pleasure to talk to (even if he is an ex-cop).:D:neener:

JL, an attorney withhold information? Say it ain't so!:D

No, usually attorneys are in the business of answering the question asked and no more. Sort of like a deposition or on cross.:D

Study up and THEN make the appointment with the attorney. Write down what you want answered in advance and send it to him. Sounds like you are doing it right--anticipating Problem #2.:)
 
Thanks, Kirk. If you have a phone number for Tom Burdine, can you PM?

Let's hook up the next time I'm teaching out at Denny's.

best,
mas
 
The states vary too much to really discuss in any great detail the problems associated with self defense shootings. Alot of states have the "make my day law" like here in Colorodo. Some States such as Montana and Texas have similiar but California, New York, Illinios, Wisconsin, and Ohio would have a completely different ideal about firearms used for self protection.

#1 if you shoot in self defense consider your career with your current company over, being arrested and involved with court proceedings for the next few months, and probably being sued at least 1x by the family of the perpetrator no matter what the outcome. This doesnt mean you will serve a day in jail (past your initial time) and does not mean that you will pay out of pocket (other than your attourney fees which will range between $15k-80k /unless you went with court appointed and risk the incompetency of a rookie). In terrible cases and if you get a liberal judge...god help you and your family for the possible outcomes.
Real life is not pleasent for anyone involved in these outcomes...... but you will have your life!

Just be sure your wife fully realizes the potential consequences of carrying and how much responsibility you possess and risk. Size up the entire predicament before you pull/shoot and always ALWAYS avoid those situations where you could involve yourself in a no-win/escape situation. Be safe :D
 
Talk with a local attorney.
You may want to check into what insurance the company carries, and how you should hold assets to protect them.
Even if you are not charged in a criminal case you can be pursued in civil action.
 
She will be getting more firearms training, but no course I have been to explains the scope of the legal system like the time I have put in reading over the years.
Click to expand...

Besides the ones mentioned, what about the NRA Personal Protection in the Home course? There should be a legal section covering the use of deadly force that includes state law.
 
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