Need a CCW for a single mother on a budget

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No snubbies!

They suck for accurate stress shots, and when she runs out of the 5 rounds she'll be dead.

To answer OP questions: keltec pf9 or p11.
1. You step up to a 9mm
2. Easy to control
3. 250$

I'd also concentrate more on awareness, and building confidence. CCW class is a good start, but if she was a person I cared for i'd suggest martial art classes as well.
 
While teaching my wife to shoot I got some great advise for women. it was "if a woman doesnt like the look and feel of a weapon, she is not going to shoot it." keep this in mind when you are helping her.
 
XavierBreath's suggestion to go look at http://www.corneredcat.com/ is the single best suggestion here.

Good to hear that she is interested in getting some good training. That is an excellent first step. Becoming more aware of her surroundings is another crucial step. The gun won't do much good if she gets blindsided.

As for picking a gun, if she is going to carry then size becomes more of a factor, depending on how she is going to carry it. I've seen concealed carry purses that could hold a 4" S&W 686 for example. If she decides against carry, then size doesn't matter. Heck, it even opens up the possibility of a longarm of some type. Whatever, your role will be to guide her. Unless she proves to have high recoil tolerance, I'd stay away from guns like air-lite and air-weight S&W J frames. Steel is more forgiving in the felt recoil department.

As for revolver or auto, honestly let her be the judge of that. Though I would advise her that autos do require more attention when handling. A common noob mistake is racking the slide first to "empty" the chamber, then dropping the mag. Revolvers tend to be more intuitive for beginners to learn and understand, and as others have pointed out, revolvers have gobs of different stock options available to find that perfect fit. But there are no absolutes.

Hey, for all you know she could be like my sister; on her first time out she fired my 7 shots from my 686+ (double action) and made 4 closely spaced holes from 7 yards. I wish both of you luck, I just pray her ex doesn't do anything stupid.

Edited to add: You'd be surprised at how strong and able a 1 to 2 year old can be. When I was but 2, I managed to remove 4 of the 5 lug nuts from the front driver side wheel on my dad's car before he caught me. For the short-term, she can just keep the gun out of reach, but she should be ready to acquire something like a quick access GunVault within the next few months.
 
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While she is waiting to find her own handgun, I recommend you both visit The Cornered Cat and read up.

As a certifiable gun noob, I had to register to say thanks for posting that link. It's exactly what I've been looking for in my travels around the web for more information. Great source of information for guys (of which I am :D) and gals. :cool:
 
I recommend a Smith Model 10 or something similar. If it is going to be for HD the model 10 is good. If she is going to carry the gun a steel revolver like a Ruger SP101 2" or better 3" barrel would be good. No airweights yet! I have an older Rossi 6 shot .357 snub that is 26oz. My wife has no problem shooting it well with the .158gr. "FBI" load. My wife learned on my Model 10.
If it has to be a semi auto pistol choose one from a quality manufacturer. No manual safety and DAO would be my choice for newbie.
 
I agree with XB's post number 21

I do differ on web sites to visit.

I suggest: http://www.teddytactical.com/

I suggest reading "Talking to The Indians" first.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2005/03_StudyDay.htm

Read that site and pay attention to any and everything Skip shares.

Why do I recommend teddy tactical and NTI study group?

I am 53 years old. All my life, I have assisted with single ladies, single mom's and kids, that have been stalked, battered, beaten, abused, raped, sexually assaulted.

The hardware is easy. Give me 10 min and I will have a lady up to speed with a youth single shot 20 ga. Give me 20 minutes and she will be up to speed with a med frame dedicated .38spl revolver with standard pressure 158 gr LSWC.
I have done it too many times, over the decades.

Boyd wrote: Mindset, Skillsets, "then" toolsets...in that order.

Teddy Tactical, NTI, Skip, closely mirrors my life experiences and observations.
One has to know self, and know Models of criminals in order to stay safe.

The hardware (gun and ammo) is not a magic talisman. In my dealings I and mine made the run to take care of evil right now, get through the night, or immediate time frame.

Those 10 or 30 min lessons were to get through the time period while I or I and mine slept on a couch, or in a chair or whatever, and evil came, and got past us, and to them.
While we were moving them, anything where that lady and kid might be caught.

Software was the main deal. Reading the room of evil, to prevent evil from doing more harm. Meaning what "model" of criminal are we dealing with.
'Talking To the Indians addresses this.


Reading the room to keep a lady and kid safe. I speak of "perceptions" often, and for a darn good reason.

We changed locations, routes to work, shifts, vehicles, along with software changes such as not traveling alone, lighting of residence, , door locks, dawgs, ...
Change playmates, playgrounds and playthings.

It is not always a guy going after a girl, girls go after girls too.
So one is wise shut up, and not trust anyone, except a very small circle.

You file a RO on a guy, it is not uncommon for a gal to become resentful and want pay back for "her side/ her fella"
This gal might get other gals, and some the lady that is in danger and filed a RO, or was beaten, stalked, raped , whatever , knows and gasl will work you and get information out of you.

"Suzie is not driving her car, she is using her mothers to hide from you and changed from first shift to working second shift now".

Loose lips, sink ships.

The gun is the easy part. Not using the same dry cleaners is the hard part.
Not running into some mutual friends, even girls, and having to not talk to them, or been seen driving another vehicle and what it is, is the hard part.

You might "think" you know the person that is stalking, or battered, or whatever, then again folks change when matters get more serious.
What "model" are they?

Re: Hardware.
Why did I and mine most often use a youth single shot 20 and dedicated .38spl with standard pressure 158 grain LSWC.

1. These victims fought attackers, or where injured.
When a knife is produced both parties are going to get cut.
So victims had cut hands, fingers, wrists, plus just being stabbed and more worse things

Fingernails get ripped out of cuticles, fingers broken, wrists sprained...

You get the compound crap beat out of you, or shot, stabbed, sexually assaulted and you need the simplest thing to operate, even with just one "decent" hand.

XavierBreath can tell you about these victims, including kids.

2. Safe
They have been through a living hell, and keep in mind, some have kids that were abused, or hurt in all this.
They want something they and the kids "know" is loaded, unloaded and "safe".


One cannot buy skill and targets.
I know about 'try before you buy", that said, when evil is upon you, it is the software that counts.
10 min for a single shot, and 20 min with that revolver, I have literally shoved into their hands, and they don't even have to know, or care what make , model, caliber or gauge.
ADEE is applied and if matters dictate, this is how whatever this darn gun is, works and puts projectiles on target.
Hits count, period.

Domari Nolo - I will not be subugagted.

NTI deals with software , then hardware.
I agree with them on this statement. I was mentored and raised this way.
NTI catches flak for these words, and I have caught flak for saying similar, and expressing the same:

The men who shoot the NTI are superior to the common man in many ways. This superiority comes not from physical prowess or intellect. It radiates from the fiber of the man his spirit. This spirit is communicated by the saying “It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.” Alexander Solzhenitsyn said it even better. He said, “It is better to fight on your feet than on your knees, but you can still fight on your knees.”

The inferior man loses his will and his tenacity when the matter before him advances beyond words. The superior man looks at the conduct of such men with revulsion. A bad man walks into a McDonalds restaurant and orders another man to lay down on the dirty floor next to his children and then executes them all, is viewed as disgusting bully and a murderer. However, the man who allowed this atrocity to occur, without a struggle to protect his family, is putrid and sickening.

s
 
a makarov theyre cheap and should fit comfortably in a ladys hands. or you could try the walther ppk
 
"Her child is only a one-year-old so personally I'm not concerned about it manipulating triggers or safetys."

That is the scariest line I have ever read.
 
"Her child is only a one-year-old so personally I'm not concerned about it manipulating triggers or safetys."

Though I was born a bit premature, I took my first steps at 10 months of age.

I also had a PhD at 10 months of age on how to absolutely, tee-totally, screw up a Singer Sewing machine, hardwired telephone, toilet bowl by (1) blowing it up, (2) clogging it up, small gas stove, typewriter, ...

And all this was before I was one years of age, and had two more months of developing in areas one develops.

At the rate I was going I should have retired by age 3 and lived off retirement checks PhD's get....
 
Training is most important, followed by a CCW class, if she plans to carry. If money is tight, she needs to understand that what may feel comfortable at a gun show, may not be comfortable at the range (recoil, noise, etc.).

Therefore, you might want to look at a little Walther P22. It's not real accurate beyond 10 yards, but she shouldn't be shooting it beyond that range anyway.

.22LR ammo is cheap which would afford her to practice a lot, then she could pack it with CCI Stingers to protect herself with. Keep in mind though that the very cheap ammo will probably not work real well in a P22. CCI mini-mags work well for range practice.

If she has kids around the house, she needs to keep the gun in a safe at all times. I don't have kids and even I safe my guns.
 
2075 RAMI is right that the gun should never be left where any unauthorized person, whether an adult or child of any age, can get their hands on it. The problem with the woman keeping her gun in a safe at all times is that her ex may not announce his intentions, and the gun will probably be locked in the safe when he kicks in her door.

There are a lot of solutions and strategies out there that she can explore to make sure that she still has quick access to her gun but maintains absolute security over it when it's not in her immediate possession. If I was the original poster, I think I'd add that to the list of areas in which she should seek expert help.

In a perfect world, the solution would seem to be for her to become trained to the level where she can safely and comfortably keep the gun on her person until her ex is no longer a threat to her.

One last thought, and someone may have already mentioned this:

She should file a police report in which she articulates her ex husband's threatening behavior in detail and gets on the record as being in fear of the man. Then she should report any future incidents of threatening contact and insist that a follow-up report be taken on each new incident. She should make herself aware of the domestic violence laws in her state/county/city and file any and all appropriate petitions to require the ex to stay away from her. This may solve the problem and in case she has to use force to defend herself from him, it will be simple to show that she did everything she could to get him to leave her alone and had no choice but to act.

Best of luck to her.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
It sounds to me like you are steering her in the right direction. I would, however strongly suggest she get a lockbox for her pistol. You can get them for $20-$25 at Walmart, so there is no reason not to. Get one not only for the child's safety, but also in case her ex breaks into her house (it happens in this situation). Good advice on the class and the choice of the revolver.
 
In all seriousness, I would recommend buying 3 bottles of pepper spray, and using the first one up practicing in a backyard / field. Runs about the same as renting a handgun (if you pay for range fees, rental, and ammo).

Learning to use pepper spray is easy, and she'll be confident in a few minutes. Learning to use a firearm is a longer-term strategy.
 
1. Training and education
2. Check into an emergency concealed carry permit
3. Guns don't just "go off" if stored in cars. A good holster will protect the trigger from contact with foreign objects
4. Women and those new to guns tend to do better with revolvers because they are dummy proof. There's no safety to fuss with, jams are almost impossible, and there's no slide to rack (people with weak hands have problems with this. And if she feels uncomfortable carrying with "one in the chamber" a revolver can be carried on an empty chamber and still fire on the pull of the trigger, whereas a semi-auto needs to be racked/cocked.
5. Consider OC or a taser in addition/instead of...
6. As an attorney and also a gun guy, I'd recommend STRONGLY against the knee jerk restraining order advise she will likely get. Restraining orders are counter productive and often serve to aggravate the situation by really angering the other party. And I disagree with them on a constitutional grounds because it removes the served party's right to the 2A, and they have to fight to prove they are innocent!

People often think "I need a gun" as an emotional reaction, but aren't ready to actually train, get into the mindset, and be able to pull the trigger if it comes to that. She needs to shoot hundreds of rounds over weeks to get familiar with the weapon.

I'm sure she has tried, but she needs to try again to simply reason with the ex-husband. Most domestic situations result from both people escalating the problem. She needs to try to resolve it.

Best of luck to her.
 
Yep, a DA wheelie would be the least complicated.
Learning it shouldn't take more than one session, although more is best.
I was just about to do the unthinkable and suggest a $100 Hi-Point C9!!:eek::eek::eek:
 
If cost is an issue, I'd probably recommend the Bersa Thunder .380, I think that's probably the cheapest and lowest caliber that I would want on me.
 
As Tom Gresham likes to say

Small guns are for experts. J-frame snubbies and small autos are not for the uninitiated. If she likes the idea of a revolver, and they are as safe if not more so than most autos, a mid sized gun like the S&W 66, 686 or the Ruger security 6 with a 4 inch barrel would be my suggestion. The added weight helps control recoil. The Ruger SP101 would be as small as I would go. They are not too bad with 38s. The new 327 Mag might also make a good choice. She could practice with 32 H&R mags or even 32 S&W. If she goes with an auto then you might consider a used Smith from www.summitgunbroker.com. Mark is a great guy and he has some great deals on older Smiths. Again, the added weight will help somewhat in controlling recoil. Ditto, what the others said about training.
 
tell her to get a new, larger man to protect her. want my number?

just kidding... jokes aside

she needs something simple and reliable. simple to maintain as well. and an easy to shoot caliber. id say go with a glock because there are plenty of used ones to be had at a great deal. they are stupid simple and lightweight (great for a purse!) and the slide is very easy to rack. and a few more rounds than a snubbie.

make sure she gets some proper training, or educate her yourself so she doesnt have any accidents.

a G26 might fit the bill. ive seen used ones at the local shop go for good prices.

tell her to get a good watchdog in case the @$$hole tries to break in during the night.
 
oh and i aslo agree with the above poster that a walther P22 would be a great gun to go with as well. small, light, cheap to practice, no kick.
 
On just the gun issue:

If she is set on something with a manual safety (and therefore an auto), the S&W 3913 is the way to go. There are very reliable, accurate, low recoil, and good for smaller hands. Since S&W 3rd gen autos are not in vogue anymore, a used 3913 can be had at a very reasonable price.
 
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