need a good .22 to train my dad and mom with

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Busyhands94

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hello everybody! after taking my father to the range for some shooting these past few months, and he LOVES it. my dad shoots my cap and ball guns just fine, and i usually shoot my Hawkin! it's a .50 flintlock i built. however, i have to load the gun for him. i recently took my mother along, she seemed to really enjoy shooting with me, and had a pretty awesome time. you should seen her with that NAA Super Companion, she was like Annie Oakley! she had a good time however i get tired of having to load the revolvers for them. so, my dad suggested we should get a .22 for some faster paced plinkin' fun. my hunt for a good rimfire rifle is on. i only own blackpowder guns and no cartridge firearms. so far, i have been looking at rifles, and trying to decide witch one i should get.

i know this will seem a little bit backwards, but i am 17 and i am trying to get my father and mother accustomed to shooting. i know the age old tradition of a father teaching his boy how to shoot a .22 when he reaches that age, but i feel my father and more importantly my mother are ready to learn how to get lead on target. my mother has been a little bit afraid of guns, so i need to make sure she has lots and lots of plinkin' fun! neither of my parents own firearms, I'm actually the "gunny" in the family! :p

so, my problem is that neither of them are quite that hands on with my rifle. heck, my mom can't hold that big smoke belching Hawkin up well enough to stay on target. so i need a rifle that is easy to load, American made, light, and preferably a smaller size for my mother. but, it still needs to be big enough that I can shoot it comfortably and i can get a good sight picture with it. i decided a .22 would be optimal, the ammo is cheap and readily available, the recoil is nothing, and most .22s i have shot even in the $120-150 range have been really accurate.

i am trying to decide on a good bolt or semi auto .22 preferably less than $200 bucks. so far, the ones that fit my needs are the Marlin Model 60 or the Davey Crickett single shot .22.

with my mom shooting i have been really thinking about the Crickett single shot bolt action, i bet if i bought one she would love it. however, i am thinking that this thing is kinda small for me. i don't know if i can shoulder it up and get a good sight picture. i need it to be comfortable for the whole family to shoot, not just one person. I'm a big burly guy, i don't know if it will fit me ok. i think my mom might be able to handle the model 60 just fine, however i don't want her to get all trigger happy and burn through all the ammo. i find a single shot appealing to me, i do most my rifle work with a single shot. i like the idea of making your ONE shot count instead of taking multiple shots to hit something. so, i am kinda stuck here.

any advice i can get on witch one to choose would be very much appreciated!

Stay safe, shoot straight, and God bless America!
Sincerely, Levi Hawkin Dabney
 
I picked up a Marlin 795 at Dick's on an impulse for $139 with a $25 mail-in rebate, and I honestly prefer it to any other .22 semi-auto rifles out there. Obviously nothing comes close to the 10/22 in accessories, but I get better accuracy out of my 795 than my buddy's 10/22, and I have yet to get a jam in 300 or so rounds, which is a big deal for a .22. But like I said, accessory market is slim. A few stocks, I think some trigger groups, and one company does extended mags and they're hit or miss (Marlin mags are flawless, and 10 rounds).

If you were to go with a bolt action, then I would suggest a Savage Mark II. Has that awesome Savage AccuTrigger, and is an incredibly accurate rifle. Also has a better accessory market. It's around $200 at my local gun stores, so keep that in mind.

I find bolt action to be better for teaching people how to shoot well. You can't spray at your target, and people with developing trigger-control will have a much much lower risk of a negligent discharge. Just something to keep in mind. Hope this helped!
 
I have a lot of experience training people how to shoot a rifle with .22 rimfires, and in my experience, the 2 best are the Ruger 10/22 and the Marlin 795. They seem to be the most reliable. They are also both mag-fed as opposed to tube feed... I prefer mag feed because it allows for quicker reloads, which is part of the requirement for the course of fire I run (I am an Appleseed instructor). But if you prefer tube feed for some reason, I'd go with a Marlin Model 60 (which is the same as the 795 except for the magazine). I also recommend some better sights -- all of these rifles have piss-poor sights from the factory that don't make it any easier to teach proper marksmanship. If you would like to teach them to shoot with iron sights (which I recommend unless they have poor eyesight or something), I would get some Tech Sights. www.tech-sights.com. Other than that, a nice low-power scope is a good choice as well.

I would also strongly recommend bringing your parents to an Appleseed marksmanship clinic. www.appleseedinfo.org. I daresay you will learn a lot, as well as them! There is really no better place to learn the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship, and it is inexpensive. Women and Under 21 shoot for highly reduced prices. We can provide loaner rifles if you don't have enough for everybody. Appleseed is nationwide, and it is very active in California... it seems that since Californian gun owners are so much more persecuted than others, they understand more than anyone the importance of passing on the heritage and saving it for future generations! That is what Appleseed is all about. We also throw some great Revolutionary War history into the instruction, which you probably haven't heard before. It is good stuff.
 
10/22 would be my choice by far.

My second choice would be a Savage Mark II, but honestly, I like the 10/22 a ton more.
 
If it were me, I would look into the CZ 452 "Scout" or "Trainer." Both have open sights, and the Scout has been a favorite for those learning to shoot. The Trainer has been said to have some of the best irons in rimfire, and can alternatively be scoped later on as your parents advance. Don't know about the under $200 criteria, though.
 
I'm all for the Ruger 10/22 here!
Ruger is a great company for parts, customer service, on the shelf upgrades such as a custom stock to fit your mother.
 
Folks, note that Levi is in California. Might make a difference.

Levi, if the 10-22 or Marlin M-60 is affordable, I'd go with which ever you can get. Both are excellent rifles.

IME and IMHO, get them interested in shooting first, refine later. If your Mom likes to do magazine dumps :)D), then let her go for it. For lots of folks, shooting is just recreation, not training - and that's OK. :cool:
 
Marlins have been getting a lot of bad reports on here and from my local gun shop lately. If you're set on them, I'd try to find a used one from the old factory in good shape.
Savage MKII rifles are about $140 new at the local Wal-Mart. If I was totally tied down by a budget and needed a .22, I think I'd try one of them.
I personally love my 10/22 but I did have to work on it a bit to make it reliable. But if you can find a good used one I'd probably go that route first.
I'm also a huge fan of CZ .22 rifles, but the full sized ones are exactly that - full sized. The 10/22 fits me well but it's just step under full sized with the standard stock in my opinion. It's a rifle that everyone seems to fit well and enjoy shooting.
 
I second the 10/22 and appleseed.

I still haven't done this on my 10/22, but ATI and Tapco (and others) make adjustable stocks so you can click it down, hand it to your mom, and then click it back up to full length when she hands it back to you. I have 4 kids, so I have ATI adjustable stocks on a couple of our rifles. They're great, and generally lighter than wood, so that's another plus for the smaller shooters.

Avoid the Crickett. It's cute, and my daughter got one for her 9th birthday. But it's a pain to load because there's no feed ramp. It can get frustrating trying to find the chamber with the end of the bullet, especially if you're wearing gloves. If you really want a bolt, get the Savage.
 
however i don't want her to get all trigger happy and burn through all the ammo. i find a single shot appealing to me, i do most my rifle work with a single shot. i like the idea of making your ONE shot count instead of taking multiple shots to hit something. so, i am kinda stuck here.
Click to expand...

That being said...... the 10/22 idea leaves me cold. Not accurate enough without modification, and most all semi's tend to be ammo burners.

Try any Marlin bolt, go used if you need to (TONS of choices).... or any number of used bolt action Remingtons, Savages or clones thereof.

I'm not trying to disparage semi's at all but.......... learning to make the first shot count teaches things like breath control, trigger control, shot placement and of course ammo savings.
 
+1 on the Appleseed,
I have a Marlin 795 and it shoots good, I have shot 10/22s and they also shoot fine.
I think the 10/22 is a higher quality, but the Marlin is almost half the price and has a few features that I liked, which is why I own one.

The sights on both leave something to be desired.
 
The thing about a Marlin is ... and they have a rock solid reputation for quality.
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Well, let's rephrase this. Marlin HAD a rock solid reputation for quality, that was before they were bought out by Remington, who is owned by the Cerberus Group. Since this takeover has happened, the quality has dropped way off just like Remingtons. Do searches on Marlin forums and you will find tons of complaints and issues from the new ones. Especially now that they have shut down the Marlin plant and are moving production.

I used to like Marlins quite a bit and I still do like a lot of them quite a bit, but to me the Marlin 60 never has been anywhere near as good as the 10/22, but in recent times, I would really want anything they put out. They used to make great quality stuff, and now, well, they don't. They have been one of the leaders in quality lever actions, and they have made some pretty good other products, and in addition to the Marlin 60's showing tons of problems now, they rest of their guns are too.

I've never had to use Marlins customer service so I can't comment on that, but I can say that if it's anything like the reports of what Remingtons is, I hope you never have to use it, because if you do, expect a huge hassle. Since they are owned by Remington, I suspect the customer service probably isn't that much different.

Ruger on the other hand has some of the best customer service in the industry, and Savages is pretty damn good too. Infact, there are a bunch of companies in the gun world, with great customer service, but Remington, and most of the other companies owned by Cerberus aren't included.

As for 2x as many buying Marlins, I've seen those numbers. For some reason I have a really hard time believing them, but they probably are true. I have to say, quite a few of my friends have Marlin 60's. However, quite a few of them have 10/22's also, and all of them will tell you they aren't too impressed with their Marlins after a few years of use, and all of them that have, or have had both seem to prefer the 10/22. Now, I know there are guys out there that prefer the Marlin too, but I'm certainly not alone in thinking the 10/22 is much better as the majority of my friends have converted over also.
 
I have to say, quite a few of my friends have Marlin 60's. However, quite a few of them have 10/22's also, and all of them will tell you they aren't too impressed with their Marlins after a few years of use, and all of them that have, or have had both seem to prefer the 10/22. Now, I know there are guys out there that prefer the Marlin too, but I'm certainly not alone in thinking the 10/22 is much better as the majority of my friends have converted over also.
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Same here. The older Marlin 60's that I've shot worked pretty reliably until powder fouling started to accumulate in the action. My friend has one that works great until about 300 rounds, then it needs stripped down and cleaned or it will begin failing to feed and only get worse. In my experience, the 10/22 runs a lot longer without a thorough cleaning. I can't comment personally on new Marlins, but I'd suggest that Bushyhands94 do some research before considering one. I am hoping this changes in the future, but based on all the complaints and advice of my friends I would't buy any new Marlin right now.
 
Get your GoogleFu going and find a 10/22 Deluxe Rifle from the days gone by when they were all steel and walnut. Get a pair of Ruger rings and a nice 4-14X40 scope with either an AO or side focus turret. The trigger should break clean at about 2.5# which isn't great, but good enough until they decide the trigger is holding them back. Should be able to do the whole deal under $300 and shoot aspirins at 50 yards all day long.
 
JMOfartO:

Well, I'm almost 69 years old, so I'm sure my perception is flawed, but here's MY suggestion.

Buy either a Marlin 60 (if you want a semi-automatic), OR a Henry (H001) if you think they might prefer a lever-action.

Having said that I don't have either, but I have 7 other 22cal rifles I enjoy shooting, eight if you count my wife's Steven's Favorite Model 71.

But I have never read bad stuff about either the Marlin model 60, nor the base Henry H001. Both rifles are reasonably priced, and have a reputation for happy owners. Additionally, Henry has a wonderful reputation for "Customer Service".

Both the Marlin and the Henry are still being made, and you can find either one at almost any good gun store (heck, probably Wally World), and it never hurts to negotiate the price...

Too many choices?

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. Here's a photo of my favorite plinker..

100_2500.jpg
 
I haven't seen many used CZ's and with good reason - the people who have them are smart enough to know what they have!

And Jeff - with all the problems you've noticed with new Marlins, even if they do keep sending out replacement parts, I think I'd just as soon avoid the hassle. There are a few old Marlin and Glenfield bolt action .22LR's in the family that have worked reliably for a good long while. I wouldn't shed any tears over having one of them, but I still don't think I'd get one for much less than the Wal-Mart Savage MKII I already mentioned. I'm tempted to buy one just to see if they're really as good of a deal as they seem to be.
 
Jeff - the external appearance of a gun does add something to its value, but reliable function is more important to me. A pretty wall-hanger is of no use to me. Your experience with the repeated parts breakage on the 795 and 60 is enough to make me decide that one of them isn't worth the headache. I'd just as soon pay $175 for a used 10/22 (had the chance to buy one for $125 last month) and not have to replace the triggerguard every time I clean it.
To be fair, there also aren't a whole lot of defective Marlin posts on Rimfire Central, but I am seeing some customer service horror stories. I wouldn't want to deal with that, even if I did only have $125 in the rifle. Also, I just don't understand how you can continue to suggest Marlins to new shooters in light of your own experience with three broken rifles in the last two years.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602940&highlight=Marlin

It's been ten years since I bought a CZ so I figured things might have changed. I went to the CZ section on Rimfire Central and looked for problems and malfunctions and only found four in about fourteen pages. Haven't seen any complaints on customer service or issues with slipping quality control. Still, they are probably not within the OP's budget. I don't want to clutter this thread up with a discussion on them but if you start a thread on them and share your research, I'll read it.

Come to think of it though, Bushyhands94 might also find Rimfire Central to be of use in making his decision.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php
 
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