need a good .22 to train my dad and mom with

[dannyr3_8]

10/22t without a doubt i love the the 10/22t its the best 22 i've ever shot and well worth the money

 

[goon]

BTW I don't hold the complaints of a few turn me against any company. I bought a CZ 453 American today despite the few complaints I've seen. You just can't believe too much of what you hear on the net because too many people act like you have been acting. You get people who've been shooting for a week telling you their rifle is the best one they've ever shot (not thinking of you danny) and that the rifles you've owned for decades are junk because they heard it in a post on another board even though what was actually said was kinda distorted and doesn't represent the true nature of the firearm. I take everything I read on the net with a big grain of salt. You should too. You certainly should stop trying to add things to the comments I made. I never said anything about anything "repeatedly" breaking. That is a gross exaggeration of what I actually said. Or maybe you know what I meant better than I do???

From your other thread, in regard to your issue with Marlin's customer service.

The net can be a really good thing. It gives the average Joe a much louder voice.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7438408&postcount=13

Indeed, this can be very true. I realize that people get very angry over defective guns (I have), often don't give the maker a chance to fix it, and use the internet to damage the maker's reputation as much as possible because of their anger - so I don't believe everything I read. But I do take it into consideration. One complaint is statistically insignificant noise. Several complaints is enough that I should at least look into it more. Money is tight for me, it doesn't go on trees, and I don't want to waste my limited resources and time on guns that won't satisfy me. Naturally, I use any means of research at my disposal to make my decisions.
That is precisely why I've been involved in discussions on this site for about eight years, and I'd bet that's why Bushyhands94 asked his question on here.

I can't and wouldn't slight older Marlins - there are a few of them in my family. I just shot the one last night - and I used that gun to pick a daisy at sixty yards with open sights one time when I was a kid. So I know that Marlin has the ability to produce one hell of a rifle. This is why I refuse to let them slide. They shouldn't be cranking out guns that break - even if it is just the triggerguards that you needed several of. I know they can do better and I think we should hold them accountable, so I will do that by not buying their new guns until I'm sure that they're building quality and taking care of "us".

Sorry for the offense that my responses have caused you because that was not my intention. If you have been shooting Marlins for 45 years, you've literally been shooting longer than I've been alive and I don't doubt that you've learned a few things in all that time, but I don't understand your point of view on this.

And Bushyhands94, I apologize for derailing your thread. I hope I've at least contributed a little info that will help you make your decision.

 

[CraigC]

The sad part is Jeff, that I am very positive on the Marlin .22's (had all good experience with a model 60 for 25yrs) but your continual bashing of the 10/22 with false information leaves me no other choice but to jump in.

People are saying the 10/22 is better but it is clear Ruger has cut corners in recent years adding many plastic parts that were steel previously. I've heard a lot more about their quality dropping off than I have about Marlin. I've bought 3 new Marlins in the past 2 years actually and none of them are bad rifles.

But if you're gonna dog Ruger, at least get your facts straight. They replaced ZERO steel parts with plastic. ZERO. They replaced the trigger housing, trigger, mag release (now extended) and barrel band with polymer. Which were previously aluminum. Like I've said a hundred times before, you'll hear a lot of complaining about the changes, strictly because they're plastic but you won't see anything where a shooter actually had a problem with those new parts. Yes, a few changes were made in recent years but none affect function or accuracy. One might also want to understand that the 10/22 has risen in price over the last 7yrs at a rate less than that of inflation. Where most Ruger guns have increased 26-28%, the 10/22 has risen a paltry 16%. What Ruger has tried to do is keep it affordable. Meanwhile, the Marlin just continues to go up in price to where the difference is a paltry $50. I wouldn't pay $150 for a Marlin when I could have the Ruger for $50 more.

Some 10/22's are actually still pretty good quality but they are way over $200.

Funny because all the complaints you're believing are about parts that are exactly the same, regardless of model. If you think the standard carbine is of poor quality, you're not gonna think any more of the DSP just because of its black walnut stock. Because everything else is the same.

The MkII is a good rifle but I have a MkIIBTV which is the varmint version. It shoots great but the Marlin is a better made rifle and is quite accurate too.

I've never seen anything to support that. The two are very, very comparable.

If you want I can point you to problems that are common to the almighty CZ's everyone seems to love so much. Yes they have had problems lately.

Yes, please do. Because I frequent the CZ forum on RFC and have no idea what you're talking about. <deleted>

My big complaint with CZ's is that they cost about half what they do now about 3 years ago.

Gotta newsflash for you, everything costs twice what it did three years ago. That said, CZ's are still a lot of gun for the money. Everybody else's $400 .22 rifle has a laminated stock, where CZ gives you Turkish walnut. No, they're no "cheap" but they're not meant to be. They are much more refined design and exhibit much better fit and finish than a comparable Marlin or Savage. Not to mention that they are fine shooters as well. Picked up the 452FS model on trade six months ago, used and stickered at $350. No, you're probably not gonna find one for $200 or less but there is something to be said about saving towards one. You can get the 513 Basic or 452 Scout for around $275. I'd rather pay a little more and get the Lux or Ultra Lux.

 

[slowr1der]

The MkII is a good rifle but I have a MkIIBTV which is the varmint version. It shoots great but the Marlin is a better made rifle and is quite accurate too.

Really? I don't think so. I had a Savage MkII and mine was actually a BTV also, the Marlin 60 and or 795 are in no way a better made rifle. I also see that you said yours was rusting. I have a feeling you must be neglecting it, because mine never had a spec of rust on it inside or out.

Now I sold the one I had as I just never shot it nearly as much as I thought I would, and honestly didn't like it as much as I thought I would, but the quality was there, and it was certainly better than every Marlin 60 I've handled.

A friend has a MkII and still has it. His is pretty old, and he neglects it horribly, and it only has a few specs of rust on it. It's held up pretty well imo, so I don't see how they have a rusting problem.

 

[Busyhands94]

my father and i went to the gun shop, and we started picking out a good rifle for him! i insisted he learn with a .22 LR bolt action with peep sights, just as i did. i learned that way and i can shoot very well. we fondled all the guns, and decided we both liked the Remington 510 Sportmaster. the sights were really nice, the action was easy for him to operate, it was aged so it had this amazingly beautiful patina on the stock and the metal parts that made the whole rifle look absolutely great. the price seemed good too, $150 is a fair price i think. it all seemed to be a well made rifle, so i think that might just be the right one! it's not a single shot like i was hoping for, but i still think it is great due to him needing to manually work the bolt every shot. that will make him aim, and will make him utilize every shot he has. so, i think this might be the right one

 

[goon]

Craig C - when I first bought my CZ-452, before I understood the fun potential of the issue sights on it, it wore a Bushnell Banner 3x9x40 scope. After I zeroed it I shot one round of Winchester 36 grain HP ammo and nailed the bullseye dead center, the put five more shots through the same hole at 50 yards. It was slightly enlongated and about the size of a .30 caliber by the time I was done. With a scope, a CZ .22 is like a freakin' laser. If your bullet doesn't go where the crosshairs are you are either doing something wrong or you've got one of the few bad ones that managed to sneak out and should contact CZ customer service.
As for me, I'd love to have a second CZ-452 just in case I ever manage to wear the first one out. I think mine was $298 when I bought it and it was definitely money well spent!


Bushyhands94 - one of the guns I learned to shoot on was an old Remington 512, a similar gun to the one you bought except it has a tube magazine. It's always been an accurate shooter. If you found an old .22 in good shape, I think you did about as well as you could have done. Truthfully, I've never seen a .22 that actually shot all that bad. Not all have shot one-hole groups, but every one I've shot has been totally adequate for 50 yard small game shots or informal target practice/plinking.

 

[Magoo]

I didn't read all of the responses, but there's a reason there are more 10/22s sold than anything else. Can be had (new) for under $200.

I've got a few. One has zero Ruger parts and I got a good deal used at just over $1k . Neither of the other two are stock, but my latest was built shopping around for used parts (tons out there) and came to less than $200 with a match grade barrel, tech sights, tuned bolt, and my shadetree smithing (trigger and refitting, bedding, floating). The other has a used match grade barrel (~$75),professionally reworked trigger (~$35), and new-purchased tech sights (~$60).

No upgrades are needed for plinking. But there sure are a lot of options at a lot of price points if you do feel like tinkering with things. And the 10/22 is so easy to work on even I can do it .

 

[slitrik]

+1 for the Savage Mark II. I got mine at Walmart for $137. It's the one without the accutrigger but it is still a great gun for the price. I was getting about 1 inch groups at 50 yards with the open sights. When I first tried it out on birds it got kinda annoying because it seemed everything I pointed it at dropped dead. If you are looking for a decently accurate gun for under $150 go with the Savage.

 

[CraigC]

With a scope, a CZ .22 is like a freakin' laser.

Mine is like that! I was shocked the first time I tested it at 50yds. For a $350 rifle, with a full length stock and a little centerfire 1-4x scope to shoot a half inch at 50yds with bulk ammo is amazing. The group second from the left is a quarter inch! Wolf MT knocks the average down to 0.40", with better consistency. Still want the long and lean Ultra Lux.

My Savage MKII shoots just as well. Although the old favorite is a Remington 541T.

 

[goon]

Mine is like that! I was shocked the first time I tested it at 50yds. For a $350 rifle, with a full length stock and a little centerfire 1-4x scope to shoot a half inch at 50yds with bulk ammo is amazing. The group second from the left is a quarter inch! Wolf MT knocks the average down to 0.40", with better consistency. Still want the long and lean Ultra Lux.

I have the old 452 trainer, which is to say not the Lux version. It's not as fancy but still a phenomenal shooter. I chose it over the other choices because when I bought it I wanted a full sized rifle that was chambered for .22LR rather than a teeny little kiddie rifle. I wanted to feel like I was handling a real rifle when I shot it. It fits that requirement. With that rifle, good ammo, and the issue sights I matched my brother hit for hit out to 170 yards when he was shooting an SMLE .303. Those sights really add all kinds of fun for long range plinking!
I'd love to have a second CZ. Maybe I'll put one of the versions with the full length stock on layaway when the stars come back into alignment for me. Not the cheapest option, and really, a $140 Savage MKII or old Remington or Marlin will do just about anything a CZ will do just about as well as it will do it. But the CZ's are just such great rifles...

 

[CraigC]

I'd love to have a second CZ.

Me too! Buddy of mine has the Ultra Lux and I lust after that long, lean 28" barrel.

The plain fact is Marlin has the reputation of being a great out of the box rifle and Ruger doesn't. Ruger is a rifle for people who like to upgrade.

Pure nonsense. As stated earlier, it is absurd to believe that a rifle would be so successful for 47yrs due to 20yrs worth of aftermarket support. Newsflash Jeff, people don't buy stuff that doesn't work!!!

 

[Maple_City_Woodsman]

I have yet to get a jam in 300 or so rounds, which is a big deal for a .22.

Perhaps if you shoot junk like Remington Golden Bullets. When using quality ammo you can regularly get much much higher round counts without issue.

OP should take his parents to an 'Appleseed shoot'. My wife and I each shot 500 rounds of CCI Mini mags over 2 days through our bone stock Ruger 10/22's without any issues. It was snowing and sleeting the entire time, and it was still a BLAST.

 

[toejamm]

Busyhands94
The most important thing is that you found a rifle that he likes. There are so many minute differences in so many rifles, (A good thing) so the only way to find exactly the right one, is to look around.
I think that is one of the great things about rifles. Shopping for just the right one.
Kind of like women and shoes. Not a great analogy but ya' know what I mean.
Post a pic when you decide which one to get. I, for one, would like to see it.

 

[shaggy430]

A lot of people bash the 10/22 and I don't understand why. Mine is completely as it came from the factory and I bought it used at a pawn shop. It will shoot very tight groups at 100 yards. I can't remember it ever jamming. I own a Marlin 60 also and of the two, I prefer the Ruger.

 

[CraigC]

Yes, well, they also voted for the M1 Garand, M16/AR-15, 98 Mauser, 1911, Remington 700, Glock, MP5, Savage 110, AK47, etc. You can find people that hate anything. That's what so wonderful about the internet, opinions are like you know what, they all stink and now we get to smell them all. All one can glean from that thread is that some shooters are a little weird about the things they hate. Like yourself.

It's worth repeating:

Newsflash Jeff, people don't buy stuff that doesn't work!!!

 

[Art Eatman]

Looks like folks didn't read Post #37.

Should have. I guess folks would rather do irrelevant wrangling around than to pay attention.