Need advice on 9mm resizing die

[Johnnymg]

Greetings

I'm using a 9mm Redding titanium carbide resizing die and the 'sharpish' edge on the die entrance is occasionally catching the case. I'm using a new LNL and have verified that the timing is correct on the shell holder. The cases don't catch too often but even 1:20 is a bit of a pain as I have to 'nudge' the case by hand to un-catch it. I've done a bit of investigation on the LNL design and it appears that the case retainer spring is tilting (EVER so slightly) the case in an outward angle. i.e. that's the root cause of the slight case misalignment. Oh, the case retainer spring is properly seated. The other mitigating cause of the case jams is that there's VERY little taper on the entrance to the 9mm sizing die.

One interesting footnote is that I have a similar set of Redding dies for 40 S&W and the leading edge of the sizing die is much more rounded/tapered. So, even with the slight "case tilt" caused by the LNL case retainer spring the 40 S&W die has enough entrance "rounding" to minimize/eliminate any case jams.

Anyway, I guess what I'm looking for is either a "fix" for the retainer induced case tilt or a resizing die that has a little more rounding at the entrance.

thanks!
JohnG

 

[john16443]

What shellplate number are you using with your 9mm cases? It should be the #8 plate. Another suggestion is to replace the sizing die. I've found that I prefer my Lee resizing die because it does have a rounded entrance, and the sizing ring is lower than on others so that it sizes more of the entire case length. They're inexpensive as well. I very rarely get a hangup where the case doesn't enter the seating die. The other dies in my LNL AP are a combination of Lyman M expanding die, Hornady seating die (love the alignment sleeve) and a Lee taper crimp only die.

 

[rockn30809]

Most die makers will radius the die mouth if you send the die back to them. RCBS did it for free on one of my sizer dies. If you know a compenent machinest they can do it too. Redding and Dillon dies have more of a radius opening for use on progressive presses. Don't know if anyother makers do.

 

[Johnnymg]

Greetings

Yes, I'm using the #8 shell plate for 9mm.

Thanks for the suggestion of the Lee resizing die. I'll probably order one and also call Redding and ask them why their 9mm die has so little entrance chamfering. Perhaps they'll replace/rework it. As I mentioned in my OP, the Redding 40 S&W sizing die has a nice entrance chamfer and the cases don't catch on it. Don't know why the 9mm is so different. ???

thanks
JohnG

 

[gamestalker]

I've encountered similar problems, but on a single stage, making it much easier to diagnose the cause. I switched shell holders and the problem went away. Some shell holders are just too tight, so they don't allow the brass to self allign as it's entering the die, thus hanging up on the case mouth. The shell holder that I had problems with was a Hornady, and when I switched to an RCBS I didn't have any more hang ups.
GS

 

[David Wile]

Hey John,

They only dies I have used in the L&L have been Lyman, RCBS, and Hornady. In fact, I don't think I have had any other brands of dies in the past 25 or more years. Never have bought any Lee dies of any type.

After reading the description of the problem in your original post, it certainly seems like you have a pretty good idea of what is causing the problem. On the L&L or any other progressive machine, empty cases should reliably feed into the shell plate and then into the sizer die without hanging up. Otherwise, why have a progressive press?

You already seem to have a good idea of what mechanical areas would facilitate problem: 1. Case not straight/alligned in the shell plate, and 2. Carbide sizer die opening is not beveled enough to facilitate reliable progressive reloading.

If you are using the correct shell plate for 9MM cases and your shell plate spring is not kinked in any way, I would think the shell plate and spring are not the problem. Of course if the shell plate was not made correctly in the first place, that is a different story and would require Hornady to get involved in checking it and replacing it if necessary. I would be more inclined to think you already have discovered the proximate cause of the problem: your sizer die opening is not beveled enough to facilitate use on a progressive press.

If I recall correctly, you use a case feeder to load your cases, but that really should not be a contributing factor with this problem. Yes, you could hold your case in allignment as you lower the handle and the case enters the sizer die, but that is simply neither practical nor necessary. I do not use a case feeder and simply place the case in the shell plate with my left hand. I then pick up a bullet with the same hand and hold it in allignment as I lower the handle and start the bullet into the case at the seating die. My cases go into the sizing die with no problems as you described, but again I would think that using a case feeder should have no impact on the problem you described.

Suspecting your problem is most likely due to the insufficient bevel on the opening of your sizer die, I would think the first and easiest thing to do is to try another 9MM sizer die. Look for another die with an opening more like your 40 S&W. If such a die makes things work for you, then you know for sure what is wrong, and your future die purchases may be made accordingly.

You said your 9MM and 40 S&W die sets are both Redding but have different bevels on the sizer openings. If that is the case, perhaps Redding did not make your 9MM die correctly. Things like that can happen. The same is true for your shell plate. I would try seeing if a different die solves the problem first. If that is not your fix, then I would be checking with Hornady.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Blue68f100]

I have loaded many 1000's of 9mm on the LNL-AP w/case feeder. I'm using the Hornady Dies which have a large radius on the sizing die for easy alignment. A couple of things to check. Make sure the shell plate is TIGHT. I put to cases in so I have something to back the shell plate while tightening the cap screw. May want to check the clearance between the shell plate and base. If this is wide it will allow the case to tip out, away from the center. On another thread recently it was brought up and the Hornady said the max allowed is 0.010". Tighter the better here. A fix may be to stretch the retainer spring. This will reduce the pressure on case and reduce the tilt. Check to confirm your shell plate is flat by putting a straight edge across it. If warped contact Hornady for a replacement.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I hear you and I'm glad you are arriving at a solution. What did you shoot that brass out of?

 

[Walkalong]

Most die makers will radius the die mouth if you send the die back to them

I bought four Redding carbide sizers. The carbide ring came out of three of them. I fixed them. The .45 ACP ring came out again, so I sent it to Redding. They replaced it, but it had a sharp edge and was damaging brass. I sent it back and they told me, in a letter I found insulting, that I was sizing down too far. BS. I replaced it with a Lyman carbide sizer and it works just fine. Still sizing to the same spot. I'll never buy another Redding carbide sizer. I have an RCBS sizer that is very tight, much tighter than the offending Redding, but never damages a case, even sizing it way down near the web.

 

[GJgo]

I have the same thing happen with my LnL progressive from time to time, usually with 9mm, about the same frequeny. When it happens I wiggle the plate laterally by hand & I'll usually feel the sprung ball bearings slip into the detents when I do, then the case will slide right in. Not sure why but it's easy enough to deal with.

 

[Mike 27]

I don't know about the redding. I am going to look at a set I have for my .44 after I post. I can tell you I have no issue with the Lee 9mm dies on my LNL. They feed like butter! Good luck with it. It is good to know though as I plan on getting a .44 shell plate, I hope not to have a problem with the dies.

 

[Johnnymg]

Thanks to all for the suggestions!

FWIW, I haven't installed the case feeder yet and the retainer spring is in good shape.

Since the 40 S&W die set works so smoothly (and has the more beveled entrance radius) it seems logical to assume the sharper edge on the 9mm die is the contributing culprit. I'll give Redding a shout out tomorrow and see what they say. From your comments it sounds like there are several die manufactures that make sizer dies with nice soft radiuses.

I'll also check the shell plate flatness and clearance to the base plate. Stretching the spring sounds 'novel' and I will check to see if that is possible. I'm a little ways from the solution right now but will keep you all informed.

thanks again!
johnG

 

[Johnnymg]

Thread update:

I think I solved the tilting case problem by slightly stretching the retainer spring. Found this suggestion on another forum.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Glad to hear it. I did not spot this thread when it started, but the LNL's spring has been mentioned before as a weak point in its design.

If that does not do the trick, tightening the shell holder's grip on the case might work. A little hot glue would not have much friction (when cooled, of course) and would be easily custom shaped with a case warmed over a candle. If it didn't work, the hot glue "shim" would be easy to remove.

Lost Sheep