Non-Concentric 9mm problem

[AKMac]

I have a problem that when seating a bullet, the bullet will slightly "tilt" over causing the the case and bullet to be misaligned.

I've tried flaring the case mouth more and less. I've tried setting the bullet onto the flared case mouth as vertically as I can, and guiding the bullet into the seater slowly. Still, maybe 50% or more of my loads have a slight bulge on one side of the brass.

I'm using a Lee die set. I've read that a higher quality die such as a Redding competition seater, can solve this problem. Has this worked for anyone?

 

[rg1]

I've went through the same problem loading pistol rounds. Seemed nothing solved the tilting problems that I tried. I finally bought a couple Hornady seating dies with the sliding alignment sleeve and it helps a lot getting the bullets seated straight. It almost eliminates the problem but I still get a few tilted which leaves a slight bulge in the brass at the bullet base on one side of the case and not the other side. The sliding alignment sleeve bullet seater takes the bullet from your fingers and will hold the bullet straighter while starting the bullet into the brass. While it only is seated a minor amount off plumb I see no difference in cycling or accuracy, at least not with my pistol ability.

 

[rfwobbly]

One of my very few concerns about the Lee dies is that they come with a single bullet seating anvil, which is intended for general use with multiple bullet shapes. Dies such as Hornady, Dillon, and Redding come with multiple shape anvils so that you can choose the one that works best for today's bullet. This is especially helpful if you tend to be the type reloader that buys whatever bullet is on sale or catches your eye.



If you stick to one type bullet per caliber (say for instance you only shoot Missouri Bullet Co 124gr RN) then you can always have your anvil optimized to work better with that one bullet. Your finished cartridges will always be better and shoot more accurately if your bullet is co-axial with the bore.

 

[LiveLife]

One of my very few concerns about the Lee dies is that they come with a single bullet seating anvil, which is intended for general use with multiple bullet shapes.

rfwobbly, you can toss your concern out the window. Been loading pointed RN profile like 9mm Winchester 115 gr FMJ on Lee die set over 16 years without issues.

I'm using a Lee die set ... Has this worked for anyone?

Before anything, I would take apart the bullet seat die and make sure it is free from any build-up/grime and clean. The bullet seating plug should move/rattle freely inside the die body.

I usually flare the case neck just enough for me to set the bullet flat - if the bullet tips when you remove your hand, there's your problem and I would adjust the case neck flare. If you still have a problem, I would also inspect the case expansion plug to make sure there's no build up of brass shavings where case neck gets flared.

 

[1SOW]

Lee will shape the plug to bullets you send them for $9/plug.

I havent had a centering problem if the case flare was right.

 

[918v]

You could seat half way, spin the case, then finish seating.

 

[popper]

9mm tilt

Just seat part way and then turn 90 degrees, unless your are using an automated press. Works with jacketed, plated or lead.

 

[murf]

try a little more fair. short fat bullets need to start straight from the getgo.

murf

 

[MickKennedy29]

I use the Lyman "M" die and have found that it allows the bullet to sit perfectly straight for seating. I use this on conjunction with the Hornady seating die with the sleeve. Using these I never worry if the bullet is tilted in the case when I set it on, it gets straightened out every time. I believe the Redding dies do the same things for more $$.

 

[Cherokee]

I use a seating nose punch that matches the shape of the bullet. If Lee will make one for you, I'ed do that. Myself, I use Lyman nose punches that fit the bullet, using a Lyman seater. The Lyman M die is also a good expander to use.

 

[Seedtick]

Do you have another shell holder to try?

Or see if turning the shell holder a little, 45 or 90 degrees, makes any difference.

Seedtick

 

[45taurus]

make sure the die itself is seated square and not sitting crooked. The best way to check is to use and socket and sit it on the shell holder and bring it up onto the die to square it up then tighten the die down snug.

 

[ranger335v]

Lop-sided case bulges for a seated bullet is most often due to the case being thinner or softer on the bulged side. No seater or expander can change that. Nor, as a practical matter, does it seem to make any difference on target.

 

[noylj]

Bell/flare is not the issue. The issue is case expansion.
Your expansion should bring the case ID to within 0.002" (and 0.001" is better) of the bullet diameter.
Most expanding sections do not open the case enough. This tightness will lead the bullet to push more on the thin wall section and you will get a case bulge.
You can sort of correct this with a die that has a floating seating section that keeps the bullet better aligned, but the solution is to get a proper sized expander (again, not bell/flare but actual case expansion).

 

[amlevin]

noylj-

This is a 9mm PISTOL case. The sizing die does not have an expander ball like a rifle case does.

I use the lee seater die regularly for 9mm and found that I just need to keep the seater plug clean. If loading lead bullets lube grease can build up in the seating surface and interfere with centering of the bullet.

Another tip is to lightly "touch" the bullet on the upstroke, lower the ram a small amount, and then finish seating. That first "touch" can often center a bullet that might be slightly cocked. Just enough touch to center the bullet but not enough to start seating, then go for it in a second stroke.

 

[ranger335v]

"This is a 9mm PISTOL case. The sizing die does not have an expander ball like a rifle case does."

True, but the expander need not be a ball to still be an expander.

 

[amlevin]

With a LEE 9mm Sizing die, the case is formed by the die and the inner "rod" is only about 1/4" to hold the de-capping pin. Any "expanding" that is done on the case is done by the plug that flares the case mouth.

Call it a ball, a mandrel, or wantever, there is none in a LEE 9mm Sizing die.

If there was any "expander" in the same sense as is used in rifle or bottle necked sizing dies, the case wall thickness would have to be exact. Otherwise you would have the "expander" trying to work the case a the same time that the outer dimension is being squeezed by the die.

Ever had that happen when FL sizing a rifle case, when the expander was improperly adjusted. Makes for some interesting case shapes.

 

[joneb]

I have had that problem with RCBS pistol dies, my problem was not caused by the shape of the seating stem anvil.

I found that the expander/flare stem and the seating stem were not centered in the die body, this was do to excessive tolerances when the stems are tightened they would move off center.

I used masking tape on the smooth part of the stem and Teflon tape on the threads, this kept the stems centered in the die body and fixed my off axis seating issue.

 

[Twiki357]

Like #9 & #10, I use a 60+ year old Lyman press. With a seating insert that matches the shape of the bullet nose and have never had a tipping problem.

 

[Capt Roy]

I shipped my seating rod to Lee with a MG 124 CMJ and had a new one back in about a week... It ran me 12.00... great service..

 

[noylj]

Why is case expansion so hard to understand?

OK, let's go through things slowly...
A 9mm die set, in general, consists of a sizing/depriming die, an expander/flare die (note again: expansion work on the case while flare/bell in on the case mouth), and a seating/crimp die.
The ID of the sizing die has to bring the case ID to less than the bullet OD no matter what wall thickness the case has.
This "too small" case ID has to be increased to the correct value by the expander. We are not talking about the case mouth flare, but expansion of the case ID to be properly sized for the bullet OD.
If your expander does not open the case ID to within 0.002-0.001" of the bullet diameter, the bullet will have to do the case expansion and it will press more on the thin side of the case giving a case bulge and, possibly, bullet swaging down in OD.
The problem I see is too many handloaders don't understand case expansion and think that it is simply case mouth flare/bell.
Hornady supplies an expansion die that will also flare the case mouth. Lee supplies a Powder-Through Expander die that will also expand the case and flare/bell the case mouth (while also letting the Auto-Disk powder measure charge the case). Hornady's PTX inserts and Dillon's "powder funnels" provide the same operation.
bds's post shows the expander insert in the Lee PTE die. The very last fraction of the expander flares out a little to provide the case mouth flare. The rest of the length is the expanding section that brings the case ID to the right size for bullet seating without swaging the bullet or causing case bulge.
Does any of this make sense?
If not, then measure your case OD and ID after each stage, measure the expander OD, and the bullet OD. You should be able to see how each step affects the measurements.