Need advice

[NM Rancher]

I'm reloading for a M1a1 308 rifle and I made some rounds using Varget powder, I used the Hodgons data and loaded 140 gr. bullets to 46 gr. I however was looking at a site that said Varget powder was to slow for the M1a1? I've not fired any of these rounds yet, and want some advice as to use them, or take them apart and start with 4198?

 

[NM Rancher]

I mis spoke on the 4198 I meant to say 4895! Sheesh!

 

[jcwit]

Hodgdon told me anything faster than H380 was OK to use. Myself I stick to 4895.

By anything "faster than" of course I mean rifle powders.

Common sense, remember.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Varget does fall into the acceptable range. Many shooters use it in their M1a. I use BLC-2 w/ 4895 as a backup, but I would also use Varget if the need arose.

 

[NM Rancher]

Thanks guys! The page I was reading was at the M14 site and it read like a horror story! If one uses Varget you can get too much pressure and ruin your rifle. It also warned against reloading period for the M1a1 ,because you could have a slam fire. I thought slam fires were from the primers not being well seated? I've been loading for 27 years, and I always research my loads before I make them. I thought I was ok with the Varget, but think I'll switch to the 4895. Are there any other things to watch out for when loading for this rifle?

 

[mohunter55]

pretty sure slam fires also can come from a floating firing pin. not sure if the m1a has one of these

 

[popper]

OAL wrong, floating or sticky firing pin, proud primers.

 

[NM Rancher]

Popper what does OAL mean? I'm new to the computer and I don't know the lingo. Proud primers I assume is what I posted above, that they are not seated deep enough. I'm guessing that keeping a clean rifle will stop the sticky firing pin.

 

[NM Rancher]

Mohunter55, Your right I looked it up and my baby does have a floating pin!

 

[Jdillon]

OAL refers to "overall length". To help in assuring proper seating depth you may want to uniform the primer pockets. I do so for all my gas gun including my Garand. CCI 34 primers are also a good choice.

 

[NM Rancher]

Jdillon, Thanks for the info! Should I use a depth gauge when loading? I just started loading for the ,308 M1a and I used a new 147 Winchester white box round to set my seat die.
I've loaded for years, and used this to set my dies, but the more I read about the M1a, the more I think I need to check things closer! Where are you in NM?

 

[rcmodel]

Get a L. E. Wilson, or Dillon, or whatever case gage.

Cheap insurance with any auto loader to check every round.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/880646/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gage-308-winchester

rc

 

[NM Rancher]

RC, I'll get one, I don't want to ruin a nice rifle thanks! How often should I mic the cases on a .308 auto? I've always shot mostly bolt guns, and trim about every 3rd reload if needed.

 

[boltgunner93]

You might want to trim sooner than every third, but that depends on your equipment.

My Lee full length resizing die stretches every case exactly .003" every time. I suspect that is because my fire-formed cases measure .457" at the shoulder and are sized back down to the .454" SAAMI spec. That .003" has to go somewhere. My trimmer (Lee hand held) trims to between 2.007" and 2.009", the variation is probably just my technique (or lack there of). In my case, to stay under the maximum cartridge length of 2.015", I could only resize twice before my longest cases were right at 2.015".

So if it were me I'd just trim every time. It seems to me that case life is being shortened by the full length resizing and stretching of the brass with that operation not the trimming. Not trimming saves time, but not case life. A long case could cause damage to you or your firearm which would not be worth it.

I hope that helps.

 

[NM Rancher]

Jdillon, I never saw you come back with where you are in Southrn NM I'm up by Corona, and we have had ranches down by Hope and also by the Capitan. We owned the Texas Hill ranch for years down south of Hope. It was the old Armstrong ranch, do you know that country?

 

[NM Rancher]

boltgunner93, Thanks for the advice. I've been a bolt man for years, I've recently been playing with a 111 savage long range hunter at 1000 yards. I love the thing, but it is hard on brass, I need to be more precise about my brass! Thanks again for the advice, I seem to wait till they are at the limit before I trim. I'm sure my groups will improve if I treat my brass with more attention I'm using 4350 IMR and 168 Amax bullets, any advice there. Loads are 70 gr. of 4350 and the 168 Amax, they print well up to 800 yards, after that I print about 8 to 12 inches at 1000.

 

[NM Rancher]

Boltgunner93, might hlp if I told ya the caliber huh! I'ts a 300 Win Mag!

 

[NM Rancher]

Boltgunner93, I'm sorry for the spelling on that last post, I must look like an idiot! I've got a couple of grand kids crawling on my lap and flat out misspelled!

 

[Jdillon]

NM Rancher:

I live around the Anthony area and familiar with your part of the NM. The two Nalda brothers were fraternity brothers of mine at NMSU. Was in the Ag College as an undergraduate and had lots of ranchers in my classes. Worked on the UU Bar in Cimarron for two years. Best job I ever had.

For autoloaders I like the RCBS Precision Mic for setting headspace in my FL dies. Generally bump the shoulder a minimum of .002 and for my .308 like to set it at .004. Have Wlson case gauges for all my rifles and they work well but the RCBS will give you precise measurements.

 

[dmazur]

Another $0.02 -

I reload for a Garand, but it's a gas gun with the same bolt as the M1A, so most of the slamfire issues are the same.

I have a few different gauges I use to set up a resizing die for 0.004" less than fired length to shoulder. I prefer the RCBS Precision Mic as well.

However, as part of brass prep I drop every resized case into a Wilson gauge to make sure it isn't anywhere near SAAMI max (the top step), which would be too long for my rifle.

The difference between steps on this gauge is 0.006" for .30-06 (and I believe slightly different for .308), which is a little too rough for setup but I believe it has some value as a QC check. Also, the other end of the same gauge has case length steps, which permits quick sorting into "trim" / "don't trim" bins with the same case insertion.

When I was trying to deal with mixed range brass, there were quite a few cases that had different resistance to sizing and needed another pass, sometimes with the die readjusted.

I finally gave up and started reloading cases with a known history. Not surprisingly, the resizing results are far more uniform.

Regarding trimming, if you ever reload a thousand cases or more at one go, you may begin to think of powered case trimmers...

 

[boltgunner93]

NM Rancher,

I wish I could offer you more advice about the powders, but I'm new to reloading myself. I've been browsing the threads for anything .308 and stumbled on your post. So I didn't mean to come off as more of an expert than I am, I've just had my head in the manuals and I'm kind of OCD about everything. But hey, I say being obsessive compulsive is only a disorder if you're not obsessive compulsive. I just wanted to share what little experience I have with the brass sizing with safety in mind.

I haven't tried any long range shooting myself, but it sounds like fun.

I hope you enjoy the shooting, reloading and the grand kids!

 

[NM Rancher]

Jdillon, it's a small world I went to NMSU in 82/83 in the ag college. I live a few miles from the NMSU ranch, and the Nalda ranch wasn't too far from here. I met Louie Nalda when I was a kid. I think his name was Louie, it was a long time ago! We get over to Cruces a couple of times a year my sis and her family live in Silver so we meet in the middle. Her Husband is Kerry Taylor you might know him he was the ag teacher there for some time. Thanks for the info!

 

[NM Rancher]

boltgunner93, I appreciate your honesty, I like you am also learning all the time. As for the OCD... I think everyone is a bit that way! Mine is the dual climate controls in the pickup, my wife adjust the temp and it drives me crazy looking at the off numerals. Besides, it is an oxymoron to me to think one can have two temperatures in the cab of one vehicle! If you get the chance to shoot long range you should take it, it is a blast! You will need to set your rifle up for it however. Most scopes won't dial that far if you are shooting 1000. I can give advice on mounts and scopes if you decide to try it! Have fun shooting Amigo!

 

[NM Rancher]

dmazur, thanks for your information I'm ordering headspace gauges now. When you load a 1000 rounds at once do you use a progressive loader? I've had a long night if I load a 100 rounds! I hand measure every case however and that slows me down a lot. I started with a 505 setup 27 years ago and I still use the same press and scales, it works well it's just slower. I like to hand weigh all my loads and I was told to even weigh the bullets as well. I don't shoot competition , thus I don't get that tedious. Thanks again for the info!

 

[dmazur]

For various work-related reasons, I'm not at home except for weekends, and many of those are spent doing home repairs. Every once in a while, I get to reload. Thus the 1000 round "runs".

Rather than duplicate my reloading setup at my "off site residence", I decided to improve the efficiency of the existing setup.

So I made minor improvements like multiple toolheads and powder measures, so changing calibers only takes a couple of minutes. And I got a Giraud trimmer.

I should say at this point that I'm not recommending this. It fits my situation, but it may not make sense for others. For the lucky folks who are retired, they may have more time than money and they would have some sort of attack when they check the price of a Giraud...

Yes, I'm using a progressive. (Dillon 550b)

There are techniques which allow "full progressive" reloading of bottleneck catridges. These generally involve tracking the number of firings and trimming every x firings, based on known case length increase per full-length resizing. Also, they involve some kind of dry lube that doesn't cause powder bridging at the powder drop station. The result is cases that can be "run through the press" without stopping.

I'm still doing it the old-fashioned way. I use RCBS Case Lube 2 on a pad, and deprime/resize/reprime at Station 1. Then I remove the case, wipe off the lube with a damp rag and drop it into the Wilson gauge to check headspace and trim length. Case goes into a "Trim" or "Don't trim" bin.

I take the "Trim" bin down to the garage an run them through the Giraud. This trims and does inside/outside chamfer all at once. Very quick and very good repeatability. (Trimmers like the Giraud index off the case shoulder, so you have to trim after resizing with this type. Also, as there is no pilot that uses the primer flash hole, the Giraud doesn't care if the case is primed.)

Then I sit down with a bin of prepped brass and run them through the other 3 stations (by indexing past Station 1).

I generally use Varget. It has a grain size that is a little smaller than some extruded powders, and it meters fairly well with the Dillon powder measure. I check charge weights every box when I pause to label the box of 20.

I use an old RCBS 1010, and I don't have to worry about warmup or fluorescent lights...

Even with the case prep, I can reload 1000 rds in 4 hrs.

(Of course, .45 ACP is much, much faster. No side operations.)