Need major help in buying new folder.

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ATBackPackin

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I want to buy a quality folder and at first I thought if I just buy a nicer SOG, Kershaw, or Spyderco that I simply could not go wrong. Fortunately or unfortunately, I am so anally retentive that anytime I make a significant purchase that I must research it for weeks if not months before I buy. This is where it all went wrong. The more I researched, the more I became confused. Whereas I thought I knew a little about knives I soon realized that I knew very little. :banghead: Assisted open versus manual open??? I have always subscribed to the notion that the more bells and whistles, the more things can break or fail. Is this true with assisted opening knives? Or does that more depend on the opening system itself? The thing that left me the most confused was blade steel. Most of the knives that I am looking at have very similar blade design and the steel is either 154cm or s30-v. With all of the researching I have done it seems that science has proved that the s30-v steel has better toughness and wear resistance. However, reading different forums it seems that people disagree with this and prefer 154cm. HT aside what is your opinion on these two steels? This will be an EDC and as well for backpacking and camping trips.

To give you a better idea, I think I have narrowed my search down to four knives.

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=8&brand=zt
http://www.knifeart.com/zetostkenonm.html
http://www.emersonknives.com/ekCommander_BTS.php
http://www.emersonknives.com/ekNewKnives2008.php#Horseman

All opinions and help would be greatly appreciated.
 
I don't think the difference between 154cm or s30-v is worth worrying about. Either will serve fabulously if used in a well executed knife. Don't hang your decision on this choice.

Most assisted opening mechanisms are exceedingly simple. Kershaw's speedsafe system, for example, consists of a simple bent steel torsion spring. If it ever breaks (and that has been known to happen on occasion...), the knife becomes a quite functional 1-hand opening manual knife. And the manufacturer fixes it under warranty later.... That said, the spring is quite lightly loaded, and failure is quite unlikely. Assisted openers are really pretty cool things to have, and can be quite handy. But a decent manual with a thumbstud or thumbhole that suits your hand is damned near as handy and quick.

More important than the above will be each manufacturer's execution of fit and finish, especially of the lock mechanism. This is where I'd be perusing reviews of the specific brands and models you're looking at. Secure lockup, easy operation, ambidexterity may all play into your decision. I've not handled any emerson or ZT knives, but I've been very impressed with various offerings from Kershaw and Benchmark WRT quality of execution.

Any chance you can "hold and feel" a few of your choices? The hand sees more in person than the eye ever will on a monitor. The hand knows which you should get... :)

J
 
If you don't have one, get a benchmade griptillian. Bought one a year ago, fullsize thumbhole version. With a zip-tie pocket catch. Hasn't left my pocket since. it's 154cm which is really hard, gets really sharp, but is a bear to sharpen. Diamond hones are a must I would say for harder steels.
Zip tie though a thumb hole acts like a "wave catch" on the emerson, which is the fastest way to have a knife in your hand, ever. The axis lock is just fun to play with. And they have about a hundred versions of the griptillian, different blades, plain or serrated, and some higher end knives that have the axis lock.

Not a huge fan of kershaw, most of the blades shapes and steels I can't seem to get sharp ( and I can make old saw blades into blades that shave ). But they are good knives solid knives, from a good company.

Kershaw springs do break. After a long time. Friend bought one cheap at a gun show. Was probably several years old. Was gritty and didn't want to flip open some of the time. took it apart and cleaned it, and the spring had a small crack in it. Kershaw website had a form, filled out, week or so later new spring. Worked like a new knife for $15 and a small wait.

I bought the smallest speed safe one they make at the same show, and really like how speed safe works. The spring hold the blade closed, until it is opened a certain amount, then it flings it open.
 
The ZT is a better buy.

Any non manual opening system can break. The advantage to an AO is that you can still open it manually where an auto might not have that ability.
 
The four knives you choose are all hard use good knives. The two ZTs are going to be slightly thicker through the handle, and heavier. The two Emerson knives include the wave feature, and will allow faster blade opening (at the cost of extra wear on your pockets).

The ZTs will be less expensive, but have a lower resale value (may not matter to you). I found the Emerson knives fit my hand better, but feel is very subjective, and you might not think the same as I do.
 
I appreciate everyone's input.

Aka Zero "If you don't have one, get a benchmade griptillian."

I think I have looked at every knife Benchmade makes, as a matter of fact it was one of the first brands I looked at because of their reputation. Sadly though I really want a recurve blade on my new knife and I didn't find any at Benchmade.

Black Toe, I couldn't agree with you more. It can have everything in the world, but unless it feels "right" in my hand it's no good. I believe our local gun and knife show is in september. I looked on-line for local knife shops and found four. Two were no longer open. Of the other two neither carried ZT. One only has one model of Emerson and sells mostly Benchmade. The last one has Emerson but doesn't carry any in stock. :banghead:
That being said I have not given up.

Hso, Do you not think that Emerson Commander is a good value? Btw, your first signature is hilarious.

Auschip, I think the Emerson Commander it my top runner with the ZT 0200st a close second, but I really want to hold them before I make my final call.

7X57 ( and whoever else would like to comment), as far as those two steels though what are your thoughts? Which one do you think: Sharpens easier? better? is tougher? and less brittle? I realize this can be a preference issue, but I'm open to hear preferences.

Again, thank you for all of your help. Now I just need to find a :cuss: knife shop that sells and stocks what I am looking for.
 
Check out CRKT, a lot of knife for the money, gotta love the Carson flipper.
 
Recurve BM ? Find someplace that has a 630 or 635 :)

To make the choice , EKI or ZT , I would choose ZT everytime. I love the Commander & Mini Commander , but to me , having owned both , they pailed in comparison to the ZT.
 
I consider the ZT to be a much better value than the Emerson because the Emerson costs more and provides nothing the ZT doesn't (other than the name). As to "resale" value, the less expensive knife will resell for less than the more expensive knife, but there may be no difference in percent difference. There are plenty of devotees out there of this knifemaker or that knifemaker (it's embarrassing at real knife shows to see the various cliques of hero worshiping fanboys walking around in the knife geek equivalent of gang colors) so the real question on resale depends upon the tried and true collector's rules, how rare is the chunk of steel in your hand and how many people that don't have one want one. Factory made mass produced chunks of steel are just that, factory knives.

I personally don't recommend recurve folders because they're more difficult to sharpen than a straight edge. They do a couple of things well, but for the most part don't do all the other things a knife is used for all that well.

As far as the "best" steel, it sort of depends upon what you're going to do with the knife. It's pretty difficult to beat S-30V in any practical sense, but it's pretty easy to use a knife in such a way that it hardly matters at all.

What other knives do you edc and what do you do with them?
 
I`ll duck but I gotta say...

I have hundreds of knives in my collection. I have Kershaw, gerber, Spyderco,Case,Buck,blah,blah,blah. I sale knives so I handle hundreds of name brands and no name brands so let me get to my point...
If you want a knife for heavy use, stay away from a few of the more common name brands mentioned here. I`m not going to say which ones because I don`t care to step on any toes here but a name doesn`t make a knife.
The absolute best steel that I have found for a knife or sword blade is Damascus. There are a few small companies located in Jordan and saudi Arabia that make an excellent pocket folder. Damascus is many layers of high and low carbon steel along with a touch of nickle that are folded again and again to create a blade that is both hard enough to hold an edge and handle heavy use and soft enough to easily sharpen and create great flexibility. I have attached one photo example of a Damascus folder. I have another Damascus Lockback. If you would like to see it let me know.
I have many American made knives that I really enjoy but do not be afraid to buy a knife with China stamped on it. Many if not all Spyderco products are made in China and Spyderco makes one of the best knives on the planet.
If you want a little more information just send me a P.M.
 

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Many if not all Spyderco products are made in China

This is incorrect. Spyderco does not have knives under their name manufactured in China. Their Byrd line of knives is manufactured in China and Spyderco makes no secret of this.
 
If you go to their website , and browse their catalog , you can select country of origin , selecting china :
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/list.php?origin=China

they also list the Bug , Mule Team , Persistence and Tenacious as made in China, which of course are not part of the Byrd line , though it could just be the web admin placed them in the wrong area ?

Whatever Sal does , you can be sure , he makes sure it is up to the quality you can expect from Spyderco.

If you want a knife for heavy use, stay away from a few of the more common name brands mentioned here. I`m not going to say which ones because I don`t care to step on any toes here but a name doesn`t make a knife.
The absolute best steel that I have found for a knife or sword blade is Damascus.
I believe you may sell knives , but you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Care to back up those bogus claims with same facts and hard data ???
 
MT05P is the only Mule that was made in China (it is 9Cr18M0). The ZDP189 (MT04P) was made in Japan, and the other three were made in the US.
 
Kershaw website had a form, filled out, week or so later new spring. Worked like a new knife for $15 and a small wait.

This is not typical. Kershaw has a good/great warranty department who should send anything you need for free, with the exception of the replacement blades, for which you must send the broken/defective blade. I think the problem was you or your buddy didn't contact the warranty dept directly.
 
I would like to thank everybody for the information and their input. I was able to find a fantastic knife shop, in Intercourse, PA, a little over an hour from where I live. They had an enormous selection and a very informative staff. I was able to handle the Emerson Commander and Mini Commander which I though were really nice. I liked the ZT 0200st even better but thought it was a little bulky and heavy for an EDC. I have made a final decision and am going with the ZT0350st. I am going to pick it up some time next week. I will post then and tell you how much I love it.

Again I truly do appreciate everyone's help because I really was lost, but now I'm found. :D

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=494&brand=zt

Hso, You had me leaning towards the ZT before going to the store, but after handling both brands I could not agree with you more. For me personally I definitely think the ZT is a better value. Thanks again.

Aka Zero, The knife I am getting has the Speed Safe opening as well and I must admit I am almost giddy about it.
 
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Chinese Spydercos!?!

Learn something new every day. Not only were the Tenacious and Persistence made in China, but the new 9Cr18M0 Mule and Bug are made in China. I'll grant that 4 out of nearly 150 models isn't much, but I never thought Sal would put the Spyderco name on a Chinese manufactured knife.
 
Really???!

Learn something new every day. Not only were the Tenacious and Persistence made in China, but the new 9Cr18M0 Mule and Bug are made in China. I'll grant that 4 out of nearly 150 models isn't much, but I never thought Sal would put the Spyderco name on a Chinese manufactured knife.

Wow, can`t believe that this was a surprise. Actually, there are several. The one that I`m speaking of is the Spyderco Byrd Model 8Cr13MoV. It is an awsome knife. Solid as any. Slick and quick opening with a solid lockback and an extremely sturdy stance. The knife is a Harpy without the serrated edge..thats it.

There is a huge misconception about knives from China, Jordan, Japan, Lebanon,etc.etc. Some of the finest quality swords come out of Okinawa. In fact, some of the finest quality steel comes out of Japan. Many of my favorite Damascus billets come from Jordan. People think if its expensive...blah,blah. Our economy causes the expense. Same blade material, same handle material, same screws, same nuts, same everything, cheaper labor!

China produces some excellent knives. I have several models from China that are a match to anything in my collection. People place entirely too much stock in American brands. They think that sense the knife costs 3 times the price, it`s the best. I`m not being unpatriotic, simply stating what I know to be true. I have a collection of hundreds of knives of all types, brands, styles and from over a dozen different countries. I`ve been collecting for many moons. About 8 years ago I purchased a few knives that were made in Pakistan and distributed through China. Now I just knew that these knives were gonna be junk but once they arrived, I found the exact same build as a few of my Bokers. The lockbacks were solid, the handle material was stainless, the blades sit solidly while closed and also when opened, the designs were outstanding and the steel was well tempered as the edge was easy to obtain and the edge held fast through my abuse of cutting 5/8" nylon ropes and plastic bands all day for weeks. After this show, I changed my outlook and opinion on the overseas steel.

One of my biggest dissapointments is the poor quality of the modern Gerber and Kershaw knives along with the thin blades that Case has started using. No toe stepping guys, just making a point. I own over a dozen different models from both Kershaw and Gerber. I also have several Case models including one of my favorite pocket folders, the Seahorse. The high cost is simply caused by our poor economics.

To brand all overseas knives as junk is a huge error. To say that all that America makes is the best is another error. My point is this....There are great knives made here at home and great knives made over there. Don`t think for a second that just because a knife came from China that its crap because you couldn`t be more mistaken. I have to say that the majority of my favorite steel comes from Japan and a friend in Jordan. My favorite Damascus from the same places. I remain faithful to the U.S.A. brands but I grow whirry of them because of the knives I`ve bought lately. Take for instance the Pro Tech. Looks great from a distance but the handle material is super thin and the blade will brake like glass. I guess the lifetime warranty makes up for it...NOT!

I only buy Damascus steels at present because I have researched Damascus for the past 4 or 5 years and found it to be superior in every way. Of course I do not expect everyone or anyone to agree, in fact I welcome the idea because I would love to keep them all to myself anyway...LOL. Look before you leap...In other words, do alot of research before you jump on my statement. One fact that always pops up in my head is the fact of all those ancient Damascus swords and knives that are still available to be seen in the museums across the world. Most, still razor sharp and as beautiful as ever.

Sorry for getting away from the topic. Its just that so many people have been programmed to think a certain way and they need to at least here some points that Ive made here so that maybe they take a look for themselves.
 
I have made a final decision and am going with the ZT0350st. I am going to pick it up some time next week. I will post then and tell you how much I love it.

Excellent choice , please do let us know how it works for you.
 
Intercourse PA???? Seriously that is the name of the town?

Anyway - congrats on the purchase - I have several Kershaws and have been very pleased with their quality and durability. I haven't handled any of the ZTs but as they are high end Kershaws I'm sure you'll get a lot of worry free use out of that knife.
 
Yes there really is a town in PA named Intercourse............................



............................if you think that is bad you should drive to Climax, PA.:what:

And before you ask, no I am not making it up.
 
I've just never had any use for a partially serrated blade. none. of course my knife of choice is the benchmade 940 which is a whole different animal than what you seemed to be looking at/for. different strokes for different folks.

you certainly seem to have picked out a tank of a knife. hope you enjoy it.
 
It would be wise to make a visit to Advance, NC before you visit Intercourse and finally, of course, Climax...gotta do these things in the right order ;)
 
I got my ZT 0350st today and I love it. Super sharp out of the box and I really like the Speed Safe opening, just a flick of the spine and it's out.

http://www.knifeart.com/zetostkenonm.html

I am truly grateful for all the great advise that I received from here and hopefully down the road I will be able to do the same and help someone else. This is a nice forum full of wonderful people that are more than willing to lend their expertise to newbs like myself and I just wanted to let all know that it did NOT go unnoticed.
 
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