Need Mosin guidance

[DustyVermonter]

Well I've finally decided. I'm gonna fit the mosin to a monte carlo stock and throw the original to the termites, paint it yellow and put little pink polka dots all over it. After that I'm gonna......well, you get the point. If I buy it ill do whatever I want to it. I wasn't asking what was the best way to preserve the original appearance of a mosin nagant nor was I asking if people aggreed with my choices. I have not found this thread to be very helpful. I am however pretty discouraged and I guess that was the point so thank you, you can all rest easy tonight knowing that some idiot is not going to mod a mosin nagant to his attrocious specs. Jeez, make such a big deal about an old war relic for which they litterally made millions of, who cares what ends up in my safe at the end of the day? BTW some FFL on here asked where he could find a mosin for $60 well, that's the price of them in shotgun news(J&Gsales) and the price goes down the more you buy so.... Just a little piece of advice, my mother always used to say........oh nevermind.

 

[DustyVermonter]

BTW, I'm not completely devoid of tradition. I own a box stock GI springfield and a S&W mod 1 1/2. I just don't hold a special place deep down inside my delicate, sensitive heart for the mosins. I just wanted a cheap little project and I saw a thread on here a while ago that had pics of peoples tricked out mosins and some of them caught my eye. What it all comes down to is personal preference, I think some people's attitudes on here are similar to those of the Brady bunch. I also think its funny that certain people spoke of keeping an open mind, Hah! Someone with an open mind doesn't jump on someones thread in judgement. So maybe I spoke out of school when I stated in my OP that any and all consideration would be appreciated.

 

[sonier]

+1 on get out there and shoot it before you chop it, but theres no reason to chop the barrel, you can still with some gunsmithing work, free float the barrel and bed the action and make little to no physcial change of appearance to the rifle, all this does is makes the gun shoot better, would you leave a 1972 dodge demon numbers matching with a 340 six pack with a stuck lifter and try to drive it? its driveable yes but its got problems so you fix it and replace that orginal stuck lifter with a new one, and then you find out the camshaft needs to get replaced so you do that, before you know it you have a original engine block with nothing original inside the block.
you can have the orginal bolt and orignal barrel and rechamber the barrel and still have the original rifle, grow up guys its the OPs choice on what he wants to do and he dosnt need anyone discouraging him and biting his head off.

 

[DustyVermonter]

"Take it out and shoot it before you change anything"

Now that is reasonable advice that is worth something to me. But "idiots trying to hack and chop a military rifle into some dream gun" is pretty much worthless to me. I had no intention of trying to make a mosin into my dream gun, that's just stupid. It is what it is, artistic choice. These arguments are on par with "green is better than blue, you're stupid for liking blue"

 

[Shadow 7D]

First off, as a the whole hacking the legs off a veteran, where would you like me to start in the flaws in your argument...
If the veteran is a MN91/30, he probably already lost the legs....

Second, it's my rifle, so in the will of freedom, like dusty, I dedicate this polka dot stock and chopped barrel to you.

Finally, While I don't claim to be a competent gun smith, I do know what I would like in a truck gun, and at $70 a pop, I'm sure I'll get it right eventually.

OR, somebody here could give advice about how to NICELY sporterize a Mosin, but, then that might be the high road

Shees, people it isn't like he is cutting up a finn or a sniper

 

[stickhauler]

Jeez, make such a big deal about an old war relic for which they litterally made millions of, who cares?

They made 6.25 million M-1 Carbines too, yet you see people who cobble together a monstrosity out of them. They made around 6 million M-1 Garands, I've also seen those cobbled together into a monster-mess. But considering your attitude about it, why don't we just have the Statue Of Liberty turned into some sort of modern art mess, it's only some old statue?

You asked for guidance, had you not asked for advice, I doubt you'd have heard from folks who urged you not to screw one up. You want to go mess one up, have at it and keep it to yourself until you've created your version of what's right. I guess those who created the rifle in the first place, and continued to produce it must have been misguided. So sorry the response didn't meet your expectations.

 

[stickhauler]

Second, it's my rifle, so in the will of freedom, like dusty, I dedicate this polka dot stock and chopped barrel to you.

Finally, While I don't claim to be a competent gun smith, I do know what I would like in a truck gun, and at $70 a pop, I'm sure I'll get it right eventually.

As for your first comment, I don't see them much these days, but not long ago a guy was selling "customized" 91/30's on Gunbroker for well over usual retail price. He had:
1.painted the stock, his usual choice of color seemed to be metal flake red or blue.
2. got out his daughter's "Bedazzaler" and added rhinestones to the stock.
3. added dangling pierced ear rings to the sling slots as "added" enhancements.

I guess all that work made a simple 91/30 worth better than twice the usual retail price, mainly because he used his "artistic choice" to make it a looker?

As for creating a truck gun, I can think of a lot of other options for one, that would work much better, at around the same cost.

The dude asked for input, I offered mine. You may agree or not, ain't nothing to me. The rifle was the issue weapon for soldiers from the late 1800's to the present day, with a good many surviving war because they had the rifle. Must not have been the total POS some claim they were. I saw a lot of small oriental gentlemen use them in Vietnam a lot more effectively than our troops used the M-16.

 

[Cosmoline]

somebody here could give advice about how to NICELY sporterize a Mosin,

I'll give you that. If you want to NICELY sporterize any surplus rifle, take it to a craftsman who knows how to actually do it right. Don't try to do it yourself. I've seen and shot some truly magnificent sporters, most of them made before 1950. Some were true works of art. But you can't just do that sort of thing with a kit from midway and a hacksaw.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yes, I understand
Most have a scope mounted because many people either prefer a scope for a variety of reasons, also they bend the bolt to gain the clearance to mount the scope, they put on the "crappy" monticarlo stock because

it is reversible
it comes with a recoil pad
it is the only drop-in replacement stock currently available (at least affordable)

so there is the basic mod, guess what, it about the same thing the Russians did for their sniper. For more money you can change the caliber, replace the barrel, get a custom set up. But then you gain the ability to easily reload and find components, but you loose the cheap surplus (which you really wouldn't want to shoot out a custom rifle anyways) and it opens what can be done, but then the question is why would the mosin action be better than a Mauser or Enfield action that most custom rifles are built on.

 

[ljnowell]

So, that's a justification to do the same these days to eventually make a Mosin not screwed up by bubba an expensive rifle for future shooters? Show me the person who will take a numbers matching classic car and screw with it, OK? I've yet to see it, unless you're talking someone who bought a 6 cylinder classic car and tried to turn it into a muscle car. That action in at least a small way increases the value of the car.

As a mechanic, someone who specialized in classic cars, I saw it EVERY day. Thats why I mentioned it.

Truth be told, a Mosin, whether it's a fixed bayonet rifle (with the bayonet swiveling back like a M-44) or a 91/30 fires with best accuracy while the bayonet is extended, it was designed that way. I've yet to see a hunting rifle used that way, so the change the OP talked of doing will lessen the accuracy of the firearm.

In its original configuration. None of that matters when everything else has been changed.

As I said, I have friends who "rescue" these monstrosities that someone did a "bubba" to and restore them to their original glory. People change them from their original configuration and discover their master plan to make a hybrid was a dismal failure, and sell them off.

Sorry for them, not everyone does that though. People do that with cars, motorcycles, electronics, guitars, etc.

So, that's a justification to do the same these days to eventually make a Mosin not screwed up by bubba an expensive rifle for future shooters?

No one needs a "justification" to do what they want to thier own property. As far as future shooters, I only think of one future shooter when I buy a gun, my son. I could care less what other future shooters may want.

I saw several others try to persuade the OP to go a different route, and somehow only my response angered you? Maybe I didn't go a vanilla way to express my thoughts, but it's pretty clear you didn't practice much restraint either.

You didnt anger me. I dont get mad over other peoples internet postings, there isnt much point in that. I just found your post to be exhibiting that classic "if you arent a purist, you dont deserve that rifle" line. Its a 100 dollar rifle, who cares?

 

[DustyVermonter]

Stickhauler, you've got to be really careful when quoting somebody. You quoted me as saying "Jeez, make such a big deal about an old war relic for which they litterally made millions of, who cares?" When in all actuality the end of that sentance was key "who cares what ends up in my safe at the end of the day?". I have no problem with other peoples points of view but as I read these posts I think to myself...If this person was standing in front of me right now I'd be judging that by the tone and way this person is putting this across to me they mean to be confrontational and insulting, that they feel I should feel stupid for having such an idea. Then I get confused as to why someone would bother to post as they obviously do not intend to help re-direct my choice in a positive way, but more or less to make me feel stupid for my lack of knowledge on the subject. You know...for all you experts out there here's a word to the wise..how you act socially is right on par with your ability to handle yourselves in all kinds of situations. If you can't even conduct yourselves appropriately on an internet forum what else are you gonna handle poorly? Maybe some of you should re-calibrate your expectations of yourselves and start working on getting your opinions out there in a way that allows someone to be receptive and not defensive.

I needed help with something, if you have such a strong opinion on the matter than don't post, if you have suggestions to help me accomplish what I set out to, by all means. If you feel that there is something I should know before I decide, let me know the same way you would as if you were in my home F2F. Don't be jerks. Nobody likes a jerk. Common courtesy.....not too common

 

[Deckard]

I hear stories about these MOA Mosins, but I have never seen one in person. Not out of the dozen or so I've personally fired nor other people's at the range. No doubt MNs that shoot MOA exist, but they can't be as common as the internet would have you believe.

 

[stickhauler]

If I was going to call you stupid, I'd have done so. Do as you well please, I posted what I did because you asked for input on the idea. You don't like my advice, hell, ignore it and do what you want.

Your post shows how well you deal with criticism, when you asked for input. If my words anger you, that kind of shows who has difficulty dealing with a "social situation" because I'm not mad. I said I didn't care for people screwing up a good firearm, still don't. I offered examples of other rifles produced in the millions that I've seen given the "bubba" treatment as well that I didn't care for.

For every person who has supported your point of view about this, there's one who agreed with not screwing it up. And yes, were I in front of you, face to face, I'd say the same things I said here. You'd be free to disagree in that case as well. But simply getting criticism for an idea I felt was a bad way to go gets you this upset? Last I knew, there was an "ignore" function on most forums. You also had the option of simply ignoring any of my posts by not bothering to read them.

I ain't got a problem with you, and I've had similar responses to my ideas on line many times, without feeling a need to post a reply like yours. Chill out a little.

 

[DustyVermonter]

Maybe my post reads a lot more dramatic than nessasarilly so but there's a lot of personalities in one place here. Sorry, I thought you were being rude, my mistake. Its hard to tell, everybody's kind of hit or miss based on my experience here so far.

 

[stickhauler]

I'll freely agree that I state my opinions quite vehemently but just as in any discussion I enter, it's simply an opinion, and not meant to belittle anyone. If we were to meet face to face, even though we disagree, I'd be proud to buy you the cool beverage of your choice and have a sit down discussion on most anything.

Lord knows I'd be bored to death if everyone agreed with me. My mama always said I'd argue with anyone, even if I agreed with them on the point, just for fun.

 

[Cosmoline]

No doubt MNs that shoot MOA exist, but they can't be as common as the internet would have you believe.

You have to learn the history, do the research and try out various loads. It takes time and patience. I totally understand that a lot of rifle shooters have NO interest in that sort of thing, and I'm fine with that. I have no interest in shotguns for skeet shooting. What I don't get is why someone who DOES NOT LIKE MOSIN-NAGANTS and has NO INTEREST in exploring their history or potential would waste time and money trying to beat and hack it into a very lame version of a scoped bolt action hunting rifle. Especially when you can go get a Savage package that will shoot fantastic right off the rack for no more, and probably less, than it would cost in time and material to turn a Mosin into something it was never intended to be. The OP doesn't like Mosins, thinks they're ugly and isn't interested in the history they represent. So why would he buy one? Any bargain price is destroyed when you factor in the aftermarket add-ons and scope you'll need to buy to make it into what it isn't. Not to mention the man hours.

I try not to take it personally, but for me these rifles are a great love. Each one is a new set of puzzles to solve, and a new window onto the past. I have to wonder if people would be so free with the hacksaw if they understood who's hands were on that same rifle perhaps only one or two owners before. I've had Finn Mosins with shrapnel in the stock! Some soldier was wounded and possibly killed holding that rifle, fighting for his nation's very existence. And that "one of millions" 91/30 may have been there at Stalingrad or Kursk or the Seelow Heights. To disregard all that out of some stubborn insistence that every rifle must have a scope and a bent bolt (among other things) is disappointing.

 

[DustyVermonter]

I never intended to paint one yellow and polka-dot it. The deal is, I saw a thread here a while back that showed someones sporterized mosin and it looked pretty cool. I thought the whole project would cost $200 at the very most. I didn't realize they were so unpredictable in quality. I thought I could pick up a few tins of 7.62x54r for cheap and go to town and have a blast. Also I thought I'd have a rugged, reliable rifle for cheap. I don't know what all this hack and saw talk is referring to, I figured I'd buy the rifle, put the stock on, screw on an extended bolt, paint the stock camo and say "good job". Apparently this is not the case?

 

[Boba Fett]

You have to learn the history, do the research and try out various loads. It takes time and patience. I totally understand that a lot of rifle shooters have NO interest in that sort of thing, and I'm fine with that. I have no interest in shotguns for skeet shooting. What I don't get is why someone who DOES NOT LIKE MOSIN-NAGANTS and has NO INTEREST in exploring their history or potential would waste time and money trying to beat and hack it into a very lame version of a scoped bolt action hunting rifle. Especially when you can go get a Savage package that will shoot fantastic right off the rack for no more, and probably less, than it would cost in time and material to turn a Mosin into something it was never intended to be. The OP doesn't like Mosins, thinks they're ugly and isn't interested in the history they represent. So why would he buy one? Any bargain price is destroyed when you factor in the aftermarket add-ons and scope you'll need to buy to make it into what it isn't. Not to mention the man hours.

I try not to take it personally, but for me these rifles are a great love. Each one is a new set of puzzles to solve, and a new window onto the past. I have to wonder if people would be so free with the hacksaw if they understood who's hands were on that same rifle perhaps only one or two owners before. I've had Finn Mosins with shrapnel in the stock! Some soldier was wounded and possibly killed holding that rifle, fighting for his nation's very existence. And that "one of millions" 91/30 may have been there at Stalingrad or Kursk or the Seelow Heights. To disregard all that out of some stubborn insistence that every rifle must have a scope and a bent bolt (among other things) is disappointing.

I tend to agree.


I have done some of the modding to a Mosin once, but I always made sure it could go back right back to stock.

I can see the fun in tinkering with a rifle, but I agree that if you are trying to mod it into a modern bolt gun and make it shoot like a modern bolt gun, you should just buy a Savage.

I never intended to paint one yellow and polka-dot it. The deal is, I saw a thread here a while back that showed someones sporterized mosin and it looked pretty cool. I thought the whole project would cost $200 at the very most. I didn't realize they were so unpredictable in quality. I thought I could pick up a few tins of 7.62x54r for cheap and go to town and have a blast. Also I thought I'd have a rugged, reliable rifle for cheap. I don't know what all this hack and saw talk is referring to, I figured I'd buy the rifle, put the stock on, screw on an extended bolt, paint the stock camo and say "good job". Apparently this is not the case?

I figured the same and that's basically what I did, minus the bolt. I figured the Mosin would be a fun and inexpensive shooter I could throw some minor mods at if I wanted to and have fun doing it. But the darn thing was insanely inaccurate at 100yds. Adding a different stock and a scope didn't really improve anything.

Other people have found accurate Mosins, but mine certainly wasn't one of them.

 

[DustyVermonter]

I saw a picture of one of the original ones on this thread and actually really liked it. It was very eye catching, but for years I saw them as eye sores and couldn't see what they were. I am coming around a bit, I just don't like when somebody pushes their beliefs onto me. But seriously, I could see myself becoming very interested in them and their history. Despite what some may think, I care about two things, my family and guns. That is what I love about them, that there are endless possibilities and infinite knowledge to be learned. I want nothing more than to learn from someone who knows more than me, its all about how people put it across.

 

[Cosmoline]

The most I can ask is just try shooting it as it was intended to be shot. Use the tangent sights, cycle the bolt with your palm and don't be afraid of the safety. There are always potential hurdles with old rifles. The chambers can be full of impacted cosmoline, the bolts can be sticky, some of the ammo doesn't agree with them. But when you find a good one and learn what it prefers, you'll have a virtually indestructible war rifle that can be fired fast and handles well.

Here's a fellow who knows how to work one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ryk5Ufyncbk

By adding scopes, altering the bolt, changing the stock you're actually making it less tough and less tactical. I mean, how much more tactical do you want than a rifle that's fought in every major and most minor conflicts since 1891?

 

[scottishclaymore]

Some good thoughts, Cosmoline. The Mosin Nagant is really a fine rifle. I have a 91/30 that, once I got the sights zeroed for a load it likes, now shoots 3" groups at 100 yards for me. Better marksman than I have been able to get even better than that out of it. But I tried a couple of different loads before I found something I liked, and once I found that I had to get the rifle zeroed for that load. It took a bit of patience, three range trips, and a lot of "you'll never be able to do that with that rifle" naysaying from range officers. Today, though, the old 91/30 was running rings around much new, more expensive firearms.

At the OP: It's your rifle. I agree you should shoot it at least once in the original configuration, but beyond that, feel free to do what you want. I personally have at times considered sporterizing the 91/30, but I somehow never felt right about messing with the old girl. I will say this: First, make sure you find a rifle that has strong boring. Most of the inaccurate ones are due to the rifling being all worn out. Secondly, pick a load, and stick to it. I personally am using a 205 gr. load by Silver Bear (Barnaul). It isn't corrosive, it's newer ammunition, it feeds very reliably, and it is still cheaper than any other centerfire ammunition in its class. The Brown Bear line by the same company is also alright, but I have had a few casings stick, causing the bolt to freeze shut. Plenty of both available at www.ammunitiontogo.com.

The Mosin Nagant is a very capable rifle and is a lot of fun to shoot. Mine always gets a lot of looks and comments and stares at the range. In a good way.

 

[sonier]

I need to crank out my stripper clips and some spare ammo and shoot my mosin tomorrow, sounds fun doing fast reloading