Need opinions on load development

[thump_rrr]

The rifle is a Savage 10BA .308 with a 24" 1-10 twist factory barrel
The powder is Varget
Bullets are Sierra Matchking 180gr
Brass is Lapua
Primers are CCI BR-2
When loaded to 2.800 I am 0.010 off the lands.
Base to ogive 2.216"

This is the first accurate rifle that I've ever reloaded for.
I've owned the rifle for a little over a year and have run over 1,000 rounds through it so far.
The Sierra load data shows a maximum of 41.7gr of Varget in Federal cases and Fed 210M Primers producing 2500fps using a Savage 12VSS with a 26" 1-10 twist barrel.

The Chrony Data was recorded indoors on a 50M range.
I didn't really attempt to group them I was just trying to see what kind of velocity, extreme spread, and standard deviation different loads would give me. I understand that the only thing that really matters is what gives the smallest groups but I'm assuming that if they all fly at the same speed and weigh exactly the same and have the same COAL and are all concentric they "should" hit the same point on the paper.

Up to now the load I have been shooting has been 42.3 gr of Varget with all other things staying the same.
I have had several 1/4 moa groups at 200Y with this load so I was wondering if I should keep trying to shoot hotter loads in hopes of finding another load that shoots as good or better.
I have heard of many people shooting in the 43-44gr range with Varget and 175gr SMK's

The other thing I was thinking was if I should try shooting Berger VLD or Hybrids
I have not had any pressure signs so far.

My next step is to replace my Lee dies with a set of Redding but i'm not sure if I should go with the Competition Bushing Neck Sizer Die or as others have said go with the Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die.
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[VAPOPO]

The best part about reloading is there are so many variables to try. I think most hard core reloaders would be pretty good scientists as we are used to trying so many recipies to find the golden load for our rifles. But that said if you are shooting 1/4 M.O.A. groups at 200 why mess with what you have discovered. Sounds like you already have the golden load for your Savage.

 

[thump_rrr]

As you can see not every group is the same size.
The first group shot was the center which is double the size of the smallest group which is the lower right.
If you look at the chronograph data going from 42.7 to 42.9 gr didn't increase the velocity of the group any but the ES and SD went up.
Am I sitting on one end of a node and should do more testing in that area to find the "sweet spot"?

Should I instead start to try different seating depths?
Should I go ahead and buy the Redding dies?
Full Length?
Bushing Neck Die?
Should I anneal or perhaps neck turn?

There are so many possibilities I don't know what the next step is.

I have begun my project to build an annealing machine and hope to complete it by the end of the holidays.

 

[USSR]

Should I instead start to try different seating depths?
Should I go ahead and buy the Redding dies?
Full Length?
Bushing Neck Die?
Should I anneal or perhaps neck turn?

thump_rrr,

While many guys first find a charge weight and then try different seating depths, I do it just the opposite. I typically load to a seating depth of .010" to .012" off the lands, and then start playing with different powders and charge weights. You might try some RL15 with your 180gr bullet load. I found it to be slightly more accurate with the 178gr Amax bullet in my FN SPR. Having used 3 sets of Redding bushing dies for the past 10 years, I will give you my take on this. First, I went with the Competition die sets which include the micrometer bushing neck sizing die, the body die, and the micrometer seating die. My original intention was to neck size only, and then bump the shoulder back only when necessary. But I decided for consistency purposes to use the body die each time prior to neck sizing. So, I am essentially FL resizing my brass in 2 separate and distinct operations. I removed the decapping pin from my sizing die, and I remove spent primers using my Universal Decapping die. All my bushings are the TiN ones, as this eliminates using any lube on my necks. In fact, the only lube I use is just a little Imperial Sizing Wax about halfway down the case body when using the body die. Regarding annealing, all brass is annealed as it comes from the factory, and by using bushings without an expander ball, you are working your necks much less, so I have not found reannealing to be necessary. The only brass I neck turn are some LC Match brass I have that I like to shoot in my match rifles. Hope that helps.

Don

 

[cfullgraf]

One five shot group really is not enough of a sample to get the true picture of what the rifle/ammunition is capable.

I know enough about statistics to be dangerous, but there all sorts of things you can do that tell you what the confidence level of your sample size is and so forth.

The more groups you fire, or groups with more shots in them will be a start. I think some of the magazine rags use five five shot groups as a start.

Nice groups though.

 

[WYOMan]

I would stick with the 42.7 grain load due to the low ES and SD your getting. Most rifles will have a sweet spot at the low, middle , and high ends. BUT, it's always a game of sacrifices.
LOW velocity : More drop, and wind drift, Less powder, less barrel wear, not hard on brass.
MID velocity : Less of 1 and 2, more of 3, usually not an appreciable increase in 4 and 5.
HIGH velocity : The least of 1 and 2, more of 3, more of 4 and 5.
Just remember one other thing, benchrest shooters, who only shoot at 100 and 200 yards will take overall accuracy first, but if you plan on getting into long range stuff then accuracy with low a low ES is a must.
Seating depth, even if only changed .005 at a time can show results.
I started at .020 off the lands, and went to the lands. My best results are at .005 off of the lands.
With my long range rig, Ive sacrificed the barrel life a little to get what I want. With my other rifles, I'm pretty well satisfied to linger in the middle.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The lowest ES & SD numbers don't always produce the most accurate ammo. There have been times I have seen the opposite hold true so seeing the ES & SD numbers go up with the more accurate load like you said above is very possible.

 

[VAPOPO]

What are you doing to prep your cases? Debur flash hole, uniform primer pockets, trim to length etc the devil is in the details and a bit of time spent making sure that your cases are uniform goes a long way. You did start with the best brass available so that alone should minimize issues but I still like to maintain uniformity. How many reloadings on the brass?

 

[thump_rrr]

What are you doing to prep your cases? Debur flash hole, uniform primer pockets, trim to length etc the devil is in the details and a bit of time spent making sure that your cases are uniform goes a long way. You did start with the best brass available so that alone should minimize issues but I still like to maintain uniformity. How many reloadings on the brass?

The brass is Lapua which just completed its 3rd loading.
The primer pockets have been uniformed.
There was no burr in the flash holes to remove.
They are trimmed to length (2.005) using the L.E. Wilson / Sinclair Ultimate Trimmer.
They are then chamfered and deburred.
The cases were separated into groups of 0.2 grains by water weight.
The dry weight of the cases was less than 1.0 grains from the lightest to the most heavy.
The cases are neck sized only.
The cases are cleaned via wet tumbling in SS pins.
I have not yet neck turned the brass yet but it seems very uniformed although a little thick.
The neck thickness is 0.0155" +/- 0.0005" and the necks expand 0.006" upon firing.
Concentricity of the loaded rounds is checked and corrected to under 0.001 using the Hornady concentricity tool.

My bullets are bought in boxes of 500.
They are separated into lots of 0.1 grains then sorted in length from base to ogive.

As I mentioned in a previous post I'm using Lee dies for the moment but will be stepping up to Redding dies after Christmas.

I'm also in the process of attempting to build an annealing machine.