Need Recommendations on .22 Rifles & Pistols

[LandWarrior]

Hi all, I've been doing some research on 22 rifles & pistols trying to find the one that meets my expectations and was wondering if this community could possibly help me out.

My expectations for rifles are such:
-Grouping less than half an inch from over 100 yards away
-Easy maintenance
-Light
-Upgrade-able(More of a nice thing to have than expectations
-Rail Mounts (to add flashlight/laser or bipod grip(front/bottom), (top)scope
-Semi-auto preferred(but not at the sacrifice of accuracy.)
-Threaded barrel
-Hexagonal rifling(or rifling period)
-Magazine Fed

My expectations for pistols are such:
-Accuracy
-Semi-automatic
-Threaded barrel
-Bottom Rail Mount
-Easy Maintenance
-Rifled
-Magazine Fed

Any suggestions on ammunitions or other caliber rifles/pistols are welcome as well.

 

[atlanticfire]

Don't know much about 22 pistols. Brother has ruger single six and its very accurate, but that’s not semi. With rifles if accuracey is your big deal I would suggest something in a bolt. Sorry I'm old fashioned. I do have a Marling 60 and its pretty good but not as good as my old Rem 512 .22s. You could get a Ruger 10/22 and sink a bunch into match grade "stuff" for it. . . ?

 

[skunkbreeder]

stay away from cheaper .22's(jennings etc.) maybe a glock beretta or even hammerli mod. sp20 but for that kind of $ you may want something with more knockdown power... unless you're just looking for a plinker

 

[LandWarrior]

I wouldn't mind spending a bit more, the most important thing to me is accuracy though.

 

[bpl]

Tall order there!

In rifles, maybe an AR-15 in .22lr, or in a bolt gun CZ makes a 452 with a factory threaded barrel.

In pistols, for accuracy probably a Browning Buckmark or Ruger Mark II or III or 22/45. For the threaded barrel, maybe a Walther P22.

 

[LandWarrior]

Haha, yes, it is quite the order, but I like getting specifics in there, it weeds out unwanted information. Thanks for the input though.

 

[skunkbreeder]

a former co-worker had a hammerli not sure which model & he loved it. i think he spent around $1500 (too rich for my blood) i mentioned model sp20 because the picture in the shooters bible looked pretty cool.

 

[LandWarrior]

Ah okay. I'll look into it thanks.

 

[WNTFW]

excellent reports on this rifle not exactly light
http://www.savagearms.com/markiibtvs.htm

 

[LandWarrior]

@atlanticfire: I looked up the Remington 512 you mentioned but I didn't like the way bullets had to be fed in. I know I didn't specify that but it's okay. I also did some researching on the grouping and it was .83" from 50 yards away, not exactly up to my standards. Thanks for you input though. We'll have to see what others say.

@skunkbreeder: Thanks for the tip on staying away from Jennings. I took a look at the GLock Beretta and SP2022: They are okay, but bpl suggested something more to my specifications. Thanks for your input.

@bpl: I looked up AR-15 .22lr, but it seems like you need a conversion kit to make an AR-15 use .22lr ammunition. I also looked up the CZ 452: I really like the look of this and was reading reviews of this rifle, so far so good. I'll probably get a harris bipod to attach to the swivel stud. Also, BEAUTIFUL suggestion on the Walther P22 I was watching a few suppressed versus unsuppressed walther p22, VERY impressive. Thank you for your contribution.

@WNTFW: I looked up groupings for that rifle and it was pretty good on average. The original stock of this rifle looks great and comfortable. Now I am locked up in between the CZ 452 and the MARK II-BTVS.

After researching suggested weapons, this is what I would choose(so far):
(Rifle)MARK II-BTVS Reason: My researching suggests that the MARK II-BTVS has better grouping than the CZ 452

(Pistol)Walther P22 Reason: Unless someone can find a pistol that matches my expectations better, I think this pistol is a definite.

However, I need more input from this community whether they disagree or agree with the suggested weapons: Or suggest other weapons.

Thank you all for your contributions.

 

[Norinco982lover]

Ruger MkIII target model.

Ruger 10/22 --most customizeable rifle out there. You can get bull barrels for it for around $150 and new trigger setups for pretty cheap too.

~Norinco

 

[ArmedBear]

I looked up AR-15 .22lr, but it seems like you need a conversion kit to make an AR-15 use .22lr ammunition.

That's not true. You can get a .223/5.56 AR to shoot .22LR with a kit, but you can also buy an AR upper that shoots .22LR as its native cartridge. I think it's well worth a look; I have one and it's a great rifle, easy to clean, reliable, and fun, too.

The Walther P22 is a very cool toy, but it's really not a great pistol. Obviously, you care about accuracy. A Ruger or a Browning Buckmark with a threaded barrel would be a far better gun.

These are some examples of what's available, but do some searching yourself to find more. http://www.tacticalsol.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=38

 

[joejoeshooter]

The SIG mosquito is a better gun than the Walther P22 (IMHO). I have both.
It can come with a threaded barrel too.
They are the cool looking toy ones.

If you want good and accurate - go with the browning or ruger.

For rifle - Look at the GSG-5. Cool looking, very accurate, well less than $500 (if you shop). Very fun gun. Much better trigger than the Ruger 10/22...


jjs

 

[LandWarrior]

@Norinco982lover: I'll further research into the Ruger 10/22 with bull barrels. But first, are you able to tell me what the grouping for this rifle with the bull barrel in it at 100 yards are?

@ArmedBear: Thank you for your input, I was researching Ruger Mark III vs Browning Buchmark and found that the Ruger Mark III is more accurate than the Browning Buchmark, also because you sent me a link that that website that showed I could add a flashlight(possibly laser) to the Ruger, it is now definite that the Ruger Mark III would be my choice.

 

[Z-Michigan]

My expectations for rifles are such:
-Grouping less than half an inch from over 100 yards away
-Light
-Rail Mounts (to add flashlight/laser or bipod grip(front/bottom), (top)scope
-Semi-auto preferred(but not at the sacrifice of accuracy.)
-Threaded barrel
-Hexagonal rifling(or rifling period)
-Magazine Fed

This is a pretty odd assortment. Are you new to firearms in general? For starters, any rifle has rifling - that is an essential feature for it to be a rifle.

Preliminary question: are you looking at .22 rimfire, like .22 LR, or are you looking at centerfire options? It sounds like you want rimfire, but it makes a huge difference. I will assume you're looking at rimfire.

Hexagonal rifling would not help with a .22 rimfire and I don't know of any .22 with it.

Grouping under 1/2" at 100 yards is a tall order for a .22 LR. It's possible, but mostly with match type rifles using match ammo, and wind will have a huge effect on groups. You would also need some skill to shoot such groups even with a sandbag, and lots of skill to shoot groups like that without a sandbag or bipod.

I would suggest doing some more research generally.

Having said all that, if you just have to have a .22 now, it would be hard to go wrong with a Ruger 10/22, a Remingotn 597, or a Savage Mark II.

 

[LandWarrior]

@joejoeshooter: I took a look at the GSG-5 Rifle, how is the grouping of that rifle at 100 yards? Looks I don't mind, as long as it's accurate.

 

[LandWarrior]

@Z-Michigan: I am VERY new to firearms so I don't know a lot of things so I decided to go to this community.

Answer to your preliminary:
-I believe that I am looking for rimfire, the word kept popping up as I was searching through these rifles.

The reason why I put the tall order for the grouping is so I can get the most accurate rifle(without change of barrel) possible.

 

[joejoeshooter]

Grouping with most any .22LR is only going to be as good as the shooter and the ammo.

If you're talking competition, sand bag, bench kind of stuff - I'd probably be looking at a build.

Or you could do what I did and just get a .17 HMR.

 

[LandWarrior]

@joejoeshooter: Let's say if it were a competition, what would be your recommendation?

 

[Z-Michigan]

@Z-Michigan: I am VERY new to firearms so I don't know a lot of things so I decided to go to this community.

Answer to your preliminary:
-I believe that I am looking for rimfire, the word kept popping up as I was searching through these rifles.

The reason why I put the tall order for the grouping is so I can get the most accurate rifle(without change of barrel) possible.

Welcome and I strongly recommend you get some professional instruction before going to the range. Firearms are fairly simple but given the potential danger you need a good start.

On the rifle side, a Savage Mark IIBV ($250-300) plus a scope ($100? wide range) will be more accurate than you will be for quite a long time. With good ammo it would probably do 1" groups at 100 yards, which is nearing the upper end for a .22 LR outside the true match rifles. This is a bolt action rifle.

If you also want a semiauto, a Ruger 10/22 or Rem 597 will be inexpensive and have lots of customizing options. The Marlin 60 and 795 are also very good.

On the handgun side, I really recommend you not even buy one until getting some instruction. When you are ready, I think a Ruger Mark III is likely your best option (or the similar 22/45 from Ruger). Other ones I would consider are the Browning Buckmark and the S&W22A, but the Ruger is, IMHO, the best choice in that group.

 

[bpl]

Informal club or personal-type competition - CZ or Savage in a rimfire rifle.

More formal competitive-type competition = Anhshutz = $$$!

Oh bye the way, check out rimfirecentral.com.

 

[WoofersInc]

First off, I am suprised nobody referred the OP to

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php

This site is dedicated to rimfire guns. You will find just about any info you need for 22LR there.

bpl you must have posted the same time I was. You beat me to it.

My suggestion for the rifle is to start with a 10/22 and build it out to what you want. That will give you exactly what you are looking for.

The pistol can be had with all of your requirements by going with a Ruger MarkIII and adding a Tactical Solutions Pac Light uppper to it.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you're new to guns, I would suggest that a threaded barrel on a .22 rimfire isn't good for anything but a suppressor (silencer), which, if it's legal in your state, still requires a $200 Federal tax in addition to the price of the thing.

A regular Ruger, especially a Target model with a heavy barrel and adjustable sights, will serve you perfectly well, indefinitely. A Smith and Wesson Model 41 is a better target gun, especially from the box, but with some functional limitations and a higher price.

< 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a .22 rimfire rifle are possible, but will cost you a lot of money. They're really hard to get with a semiauto, for some technical reasons I won't get into here. They're even harder to get with a LIGHT semiauto.

I've seen some .22 benchrest rifles that would do under 1/2 MOA all day long, but they were single shot bolt actions, custom built, with a total cost including optics of more than $3000 a pop. They also use match-grade subsonic ammo that's much more expensive than the stuff you can buy by the brick.

You're not asking for the impossible, but you are asking for a combination of features and characteristics that probably make no sense for your purposes.

<1/2" at 100 yards is easier with a centerfire .22 varmint cartridge like a .22-250, but it will still have to be a high-end rifle, and plan on loading the ammo yourself if you want that accuracy.

 

[JohnBT]

"My expectations for rifles are such:

-Grouping less than half an inch from over 100 yards away"


This is not a realistic expectation for a .22 rimfire.

Getting a repeatable half an inch at 50 yards is going to be about it and you will likely spend a lot of money to get a gun (and ammo that it likes) that will do it. My Stoeger-import-marked Sako Finnfire shot right at half an inch to .55" right out of the box with the ammo it liked. Some it shot a little better and some, eventually, a lot better.

An inch at 100 with a rimfire will happen from time to time, but don't stay up late waiting on it to happen. The rimfire bullet is really slowing down and getting blown around moving from 50 to the 100 yard mark.

Another half inch at 50 yards rifle that comes to mind is my Cooper Custom Classic .22 LR. But that was $1600 back when I bought it, who knows what they cost now.

Oh, I have a Remington 541-S that will shoot small groups too, but I haven't come anywhere near a half-inch at a 100.

John

 

[ArmedBear]

Getting a repeatable half an inch at 50 yards is going to be about it and you will likely spend a lot of money to get a gun (and ammo that it likes) that will do it.

My Marlin 60 will do it with Mini-Mags. 5-shot groups, of course, not 100-shot groups or anything.

However, the law of diminishing marginal rate of return really applies. <1/4" at 50 yards is entirely doable with .22LR. Go to http://ara.benchrest.net/ and look at the targets. Note that, if you touch the next ring, you get the lower score. Then, look at the scores people get.

HOWEVER, as I said, these are $3000+ custom rifles with top-notch high-power scopes, not toys, not practice guns. In fact, they're not good for anything but this particular, specialized match shooting. Their triggers are completely unsafe for use in any other context.

That's why I couldn't honestly say it was "impossible", just that it doesn't make sense in this context.