Need shotgun advice for back disability

[Preacherman]

Hi, folks. Well, it looks as if my eighteen-month saga of back surgeries, therapies, etc. is drawing to a close: but I'm reliably informed that I shall have a permanent weakness in my lower back, and that heavy-recoiling weapons are Not A Good Idea for me in the future. Needless to say, this affects shotguns too.

Now, I've got a few Remington 870's and Mossberg 500's in 12ga., and have enjoyed shooting them: but they're all a bit stout, particularly with defensive loads. I've got a Remington 1100 LT-20, which is a pussycat, and an 870 Youth Model in 20ga., which kicks not much less than (with some loads, even more than) a 12ga. due to its very light weight.

For general sporting use, I'm conflicted. Sure, I can use the LT-20, but I know that a lighter 12ga. load in a heavier shotgun would recoil about the same. Any advice on the way to go for sporting use?

For defensive use, the problems are worse. Any serious defensive load is going to kick a bit too much in 12ga. for me to handle. I may try one of the SpecOps units, to see how well they do, if and when they become available. However, there has also been the suggestion to go down to 20ga. and trust to no. 3 buckshot and slugs in that gauge to see me through the night. Any suggestions?

Yeah, I know, this whole situation sucks - but I may as well make the best of it.

 

[kudu]

Nothing wrong with that 1100 20ga for skeet and sporting. Yea, you could get some 7/8 and 1oz loads for the 12ga for the same purpose, or if you want to be assimulated you could go with a nice 28ga shotgun, look up Steve, I bet he could get you a tryout with a 28, but no factory slugs or buck available in that platform.

 

[mete]

Check out the reduced recoil loads ,they are really effective in 00 buck. A good auto Beretta, Remington Winchester do a fine job in handling recoil and a better recoil pad may help also.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Bummer about your back, Preacher. A couple things...

12 gauge, 7/8 oz loads are amazingly effective for sporting purposes. Either the Winchester "Feather" loads or Fiocchi's Ultras are great for clays or smaller game birds. Or, get a MEC 600 JR and build your own creampuff loads.

Give me a couple weeks and I'll have a few 00 loads with 6 pellets for you to try. These are 3/4 oz, but still quite effective at close range. Try a few and if you like them, I'll make more.

 

[silverlance]

hm how about

benelli m1 s90 with mercury recoil reducer? I've never bought one for my own shotgun because i felt that an extra 13oz is too much weight, and i've spent much too much in guns already this month - but supposed it really really helps.

esp if you combine it with the benelli comfort stock (i forget the actual name).

anyhow, my two cents.

disclaimer: i just bought a benellim1 and i stil haven't even fired it once yet, (in ffl) so i may be talking out of my butt

 

[ACP230]

I'd go with the 20 gauge.
You already have it and know how it shoots.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I'm glad to hear that you have come this far in recovering. I know it has been a long year and a half.

One more vote for some of the newer reduced recoil loadings in 00, 000 buck and even slugs is in order, I think. It might be you would want someone else to test them while you watched and compared observable recoil to a load you were comfortable shooting yourself. I find the difference in recoil levels remarkable and for HD purposes the effectiveness of the payload is not really impaired.

Do you have access to a 12 ga. 1100? I think that would be a better bet- there are no reduced recoil 20 ga loads I know of, and the guns tend to be a good bit lighter in the smaller gauge also. That makes the 20s tend to be a little stiff in recoil with buck or slugs. A gas gun is likely to be the lightest recoiling option available, all other factors being equal. The reduced recoil stuff has run the 1100s I have used it in OK in my somewhat limited experience.

Don't overlook installing one of the new pads either- a Remington R3 or LimbSaver can make quite a difference as well. And you can always add a bit of weight to the gun if needed.

Take care of yourself and continue to get better,

lpl/nc

 

[Red Tornado]

Gotta agree with the crowd here, I think 20 gauges are dandy. That's always been my bird/rabbit gun, and it does nicely. As far as HD, I don't have much experience with buckshot, but even a 3/4 oz. slug is still a .62 caliber 328 gr. projectile at what 12-1300 fps? That WILL make ne'er-do-wells cease their doing...ne'er well?!?

Good luck with the back, may it heal beyond all expectations.
RT

 

[kudu]

It really boils down to if you want to be rid of the weight of a 12ga gun and the recoil as well. If so a 20ga is marginal, although the 1100 platform is excellent, the 28ga is a wonder to shoot. You would have to reload for slug and buckshot, but it would be worth it, plus it is an outstanding little gun on a clays range. Ballistic products have loadings available for reloaders for slugs and recipes for buckhsot as well I believe.

 

[Third_Rail]

I'd go with a Knoxx stock of some sort - try it out, see if it helps. If it doesn't, they refund your money 100%.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Light 12 ga loads

I am also somewhat recoil sensitive and in my 12 gauge I use only 3/4 oz of shot for trap and skeet. This necessitates putting a .125 20 ga card in between the WAA12SL (pink) plastic wad and the shot. Recoil is light so would not be for a semi-auto. Pump action is the way to go with these. Besides, there is something about the sound of a pump shotgun racking that sends would-be troubles makers out of the area in a hurry.

 

[richardschennberg]

I have seen a Benelli M-1 20 gauge w/26" barrel used effectively for Skeet, Sporting Clays, and Wobble Trap. IMO this is one of the lightest shotguns that will pack enough punch for Sporting Clays, hunting, and HD with very little felt recoil. You can use mostly light field loads and buy a box or two of Sporting Clays or hunting loads for the occasional long shot.
Richard
Schennberg.com

 

[Preacherman]

Well, I'm going to try the new Knoxx SpecOps recoil-absorbing stock on an 870 to see how much of a difference it makes. The original Hogue CompStock (which Hogue sold to Knoxx) was OK, but very long, and not particularly ergonomic. I spoke with THR member CaCrusin this morning (he works at Knoxx), and he tells me the SpecOps stock should be shipping within a couple of weeks, so I'll see how much of an improvement it is. Of course, shooting clays with a pistol-grip stock should raise a few eyebrows...

 

[Barry in IN]

Preacherman-
Sorry to hear about your back woes.
Believe me, I know what you are going through.
I hurt my back for the first time about 15 years ago, and it went downhill from there. I have Degenerative Disc Disease, which was going to get me someday, but that injury just sped things up.
I haven't worked since March, 2001.

I've found that recoil was only part of the problem for me.
Gun weight was another. Some days, it's all I can do to just hold a long gun in firing position. I could switch to reduced-recoil ammo, but it wouldn't make the guns any lighter.
I had to find a lighter gun in addition to less recoil.

I started experimenting with the 20 gauge recently, so if you decide to pursue the 20 gauge with your LT20, or are just curious anyway, here is what I've done and learned so far....

I got an 1100 LT20 Youth Synthetic (21" barrel). Besides offering less recoil than my 12s, it's a full pound lighter than the similar 12 ga model 1100/11-87.

I got all of the 20 ga buckshot loads I could find (3) and patterned them at 15 yards. I chose that distance since it's the max range I could possibly shoot at someone inside our house.

Since I had doubts about the "smaller" buckshots effectiveness, I thought tighter patterns/concentrated impact might be best.

I can post all of the data if you or anyone wants, but in summary, Winchester Super-X #3 buck (20 pellets) patterned tightest. It kept all pellets in a 9-1/2" circle with IC choke, and all in 7-3/4" with a Modified tube. It averaged putting 17 (out of the 20) pellets in a 6" circle with the Mod tube.

I was worried about giving up much "thump" by going from 12 to 20. But since it looks like it can put all the pellets into under 8" at in-house range, I'll quit worrying.

By the way, two different slugs I tested hit close to the center of the buck loads' point of impact.

I wondered if losing a pound or so of gun weight might cancel any benefit of the 20's reduced recoil. But no, it still seemed pretty gentle. I did add a Sims Vibration Labs recoil pad first.
It was just light enough for me to handle without getting my back torqued up.
Maybe I'll shoot it more often than a 12. Besides the reduced recoil, there's a little less to drag out into the woods- less gun, smaller shell boxes, etc. If I'll shoot it more, then it's been a good choice already.

At one time, I wouldn't even look at a 20 gauge. Switch away from the 12 gauge? No way. I thought people who complained about recoil were nuts- of course it kicks, it's supposed to!
But my back has made it clear that I had to do something.

 

[rickr44318]

20ga vs. 12ga

Preacherman, hope you experience abundant health and strengthening; my wife has had mid-lower back grief for 20+ years, not fun.

This encompasses some of my questions about an HD shotgun. I recently sold a 12ga Mossberg 500 that was a fine weapon, but something she would never use even in extremis. But I've decided it IS a good idea to have a pumpgun for greeting unwelcome guests. Thanks to all for the info that's been posted so far, but I need some more help with the HD practicality of the 20ga (looked at a Winchester 1300 yesterday) -- she might yet use it, and I certainly would. If the 20ga just isn't on par with the 12ga for HD purposes, what would you recommend as the highest utility / lowest pain options in the 12? (I'd probably go with the Mossberg again, maybe an 870.)

(Sidenote: I'm a new member and have found THR to be the most enjoyable and civil, and least chest-thumping BS, RKBA forum out there. Thanks to y'all. Hope to make some beneficial contributions when I acquire more experience and wisdom. r/)

 

[Dave McCracken]

Back when I could access a Federal database I can't now, I perused the stats on use of shotguns as weapons. One shot, one perp neutralized. Nigh 100% performance regardless of gauge, choke or load.

Shotguns excel at dumping foot tons of energy into a target. Even the lowly 410 packs about the same moxie as GI hardball, or the old 41 mag Police loading that was removed from use because it was"Killing off all the Brothers".

Gauges other than 12 have more limited choices in ammo. Still there's loads out there perfectly capable of doing the job , a little research and testing will work wonders.

If I had only the 20 gauge 870 YE here and #3 buck loads, I'd still consider myself ready to repel boarders. Add those slugs I've stashed and I'm ready for most anything this side of APCs and Ceratopsids.

Note, with heavy loads, that YE is not a soft kicker, It does handle sweetly in fast COFs and carries well.

 

[Barry in IN]

Dave McC-
That's good to hear. I had serious doubts for years about going to the 20 gauge.
But when it became apparent it was going to be 20 gauge or no gauge, I had to give in.

 

[Dave McCracken]

20 gauge fans are at a disadvantage with waterfowl loads but not much else. The Rottweil Brenneke load in 20 gauge is a fine deer slug, equal to most 12 gauge slugs. It does kick like Gabriel's mule.

HTH....

 

[epijunkie67]

I wish I could find a pump gun in 28 gauge. I know they don't make buckshot for it but I'm sure I could either get a reloader to make some or start reloading them myself. Seems like an almost perfect compromise round. Big enough to still cause major perp damage but recoil light enough a 6 year old could fire it.

 

[Dave McCracken]

870s come in 28 gauge and have since the Fifties,epi.

There's also a thread we did on 6 pellet 00 loads as a "House" load in the archives. If you reload you can make up some yourself.

 

[richardschennberg]

I have a Remington 870 28 gauge w/ 25" barrel. It has less felt recoil than the 12 gauge, but about as much a 20 gauge with 28" barrel. The problem is most likely the lighter overall weight, so adding a magazine cap weight or a heavy (non-plastic) magazine plug should help.
Richard
Schennberg.com