suggestions for lighter recoiling shotgun for wife (needs to have Ext. mag)

[Detritus]

Please bear with me; I’m struggling how to phrase/describe what I’m trying to ask about here.

Wife and I have been thinking about getting another shotgun for her to use, since at this point, due to a shoulder surgery a few years ago, even with light loads my 12ga Stevens 350 (Chinese M37 clone) is too much for her.

Based on recoil sensitivity alone my thoughts run toward a gas driven 20ga auto. But frankly my knowledge of and experience with shotguns is limited. So I ask the advice of those here.

The possible uses to which it might be put are HD, general messing around at the range, she might one day decide to enter a local multi-gun match for the heck of it but that's not a top consideration. If Hunting, skeet/other clay sports were more likely of a use, I’d be leaning toward another 28ga but neither of us has a strong interest in either.

Anyway, the idea I had of a possible configuration was a gas driven auto with an extended magazine, ala the Rem 1100 Tac4 but in 20ga, since due to my lack of experience with such I'm not sure if she (i.e. her shoulder) could handle the 12ga version. So suggestions of what else to look into along those lines are always welcome.

Any other suggestions on how to meet the need of reduced felt recoil compared to a 20" barreled 12ga pump, while staying in a 20-22" barrel and extended magazine are welcome as well. Esp. since Annie likes the look of the 20ga version(s) of the 870 tactical models. Oh, and she said to mention that she already has a shoulder shield but it will need to be adapted on the sewing machine to actually be of any use. They appear to be made for totally flat chested women. Not her problem.

As always thank you for your time and any info or advice you care to share.

 

[Virginian]

Hard to find anything that recoils less than a 20 gauge 1100. I am sure you will get advice to shoot a 12 with reduced loads, but I think the 20 is a fine choice. Will be lighter too.

 

[2@low8]

There will be many solutions to your problem - here's mine. My wife wanted to shoot skeet (God answered that prayer for me!), but she is slim and cannot handle the recoil of even a 20 gauge semi-auto. A 28 gauge gas gun (I’ve been partial to Remington 1100s for the past 40 years) I think would be ideal, except for the very high cost of ammo in that gauge.

She also doesn’t have enough strength to hold up a gas gun either, so for her the solution was a Remington 870, 20 gauge youth model that has a 25” vent-rib barrel that I put a Cheek-Ez pad on the comb to reduce the recoil to her face and the shorter stock made it a snap to put on a good recoil pad. She wears a recoil pad as well

The pump action is not the best for skeet, but it makes it easier to load the next shell while on a station at this time when she is only shooting singles. I’m hoping that by the time I start her on doubles she’ll be ready for the Remington 1100, 20 gauge skeet gun that I have for her.

The BIG difference in recoil reduction comes from the ¾ ounce loads (same weight as for 28 gauge skeet) that I made up for her. The whole combo is really working out well for her - ymmv.

 

[Hunterdad]

Is eat that a Remington 1100 LT-20 would be the perfect gun for her. I have one made in '62 and the thing is a cream puff.

 

[oneounceload]

To have the lowest possible recoil, she needs to shoot the heaviest gun she can successfully handle with the lightest possible loads that work in the gun - that's pure physics and you cannot change Newton's laws in any other way.
To change the perceived recoil, aka "kick", that can be done using a gas action, a good recoil pad, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a perfect fitting of the gun to the shooter.
There is a LOT more to fit than LOP - there is pitch, drop at heel, drop at comb, thickness of the comb, cast on/off, toe in/out, pitch, etc.

A Remington 1100 in 28 or 410 shooting slugs would make an excellent alternatives to larger bores and buckshot. If you need more than the 5 shots, perhaps an AR carbine would be a better choice as it has less recoil than any 12 or 20

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Remington claims that the Versa Max with 3.5" magnum loads recoils like a 20 gauge.
If that is indeed the case, then light target loads from one would be very manageable.

 

[backbencher]

http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/MXT/01-04-33

http://www.custombuckshot.com/

My 20 ga 870 Youth has a Pachmayr PG, a 21" bbl, an 8 round extention tube, & a full choke. It's very controllable w/ #4 buck. I want to try some of the NML #1s when I get back.

 

[oneounceload]

Remington claims that the Versa Max with 3.5" magnum loads recoils like a 20 gauge.
If that is indeed the case, then light target loads from one would be very manageable.

That ONLY makes sense IF the light loads will work the action - on many of the goose guns, that is not the case

 

[jmr40]

If you want a shorter 20-22" barrel a gas operated gun might give you issues with lighter loads. Most with barrels that short require heavier loads. Heavy 20 ga loads will kick at least as hard as 12's.

If recoil reduction is a goal then a gas auto is the way to go, but if you want to be able to shoot lighter loads I'd suggest a 26" or longer barrel. It is also highly possible you will find a 12 recoils less than a 20. A load shooting 1 oz of shot @1200 fps recoils exactly the same from a 12 as it does from a 20, and since a 20 generally weighs about a pound less it will recoil more.

You buy the 20 to have a lighter, more compact gun which could be a factor for a smaller statured person. Considering the weight difference you will have to shoot some pretty light 20 ga loads just to get the recoil equal.

Of course most recoil is really felt more between the ears. If someone truly believes a 20 will recoil less, then it will seem less to them.

 

[Armchair Warrior]

In a gun magazine a couple months ago they did an article on just that. There are now spring loaded and gas shock stocks available that seem to do wonders for recoil.

 

[oneounceload]

A load shooting 1 oz of shot @1200 fps recoils exactly the same from a 12 as it does from a 20, and since a 20 generally weighs about a pound less it will recoil more.

Yep - somebody gets it.....

 

[Detritus]

That ONLY makes sense IF the light loads will work the action - on many of the goose guns, that is not the case

due to the way it's gas system is setup, the Versa-Max is Supposed to be able to digest anything from light 2-3/4" target loads to the 3-1/2" goose blasters, and self regulate based on shell length (the ports are in the chamber instead of bore).

Even back when i was still working one of the local gun counters, I never had a chat up any of the customers who bought one, much less get the low down on whether the system worked as advertised for light loads.

but if anyone in the Houston area is willing to let a person try theirs out for feel....

Many of the points brought up are being mulled, esp the possibility of using a 12ga pump or auto with lighter loads. I know that if we went THAT route i'd wind up having to take up shotshell reloading to be able to assure a reliable supply of ammo of the appropriate loading(s)

as of right now the only two chambering being considered are 20 and 12. this gun will be primarily a Home defense gun and will not see very much if any use on a skeet, trap, or SC field. so 28ga isn't really in the cards, and .410 while available in viable self defense loads got a definite "no" from the better half.

Guess i just need to find some willing local shotgunners willing to help us out by letting Annie try some things before we have to ante up cash.
Her first pistol was bought assuming what would be a good fit. and let's just say that she wound up going inthe totally opposite direction in the end.

thank you for the advice so far again any and all input is welcome, adn please let me know if there is any info I can provide that would help in some way.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Saiga 12, with a Tromix shark break, t6 stock with recoil pad. Softest recoiling shotgun I've ever shot. Put 150 rounds of #4 buckshot through it a week ago, and would happily have put another 150 through. I can't beleive how much of a difference the Tromix break makes, especially with the recoil pad.

 

[oneounceload]

due to the way it's gas system is setup, the Versa-Max is Supposed to be able to digest anything from light 2-3/4" target loads to the 3-1/2" goose blasters, and self regulate based on shell length (the ports are in the chamber instead of bore).

I can tell you that the Beretta A400 Xplor Unico (the green receiver 3.5"gun) WILL do exactly that. It is my wife's sporting clays gun and it digests my 3/4oz 12 gauge loads (that's the equal of a 28 gauge) with zero malfs of any kind, and it has since day one, so yes, they are out therel and with the Beretta Kick Off system, it is VERY light recoiling with light loads

 

[Deer_Freak]

I have a 28 ga citori that is very easy to handle. Will your wife shoot enough to justify a $1500 purchase? Even the Mossbergs that have a 20 ga and a 28 ga barrel are close to $1000. Maybe a 9mm carbine would be a better option for her.

Another option is to go to the range and just explain your wifes situation. Most people will loan her a gun to shoot a round of skeet. When I want to buy a shotgun I ask to to borrow a gun. I can not recall anyone saying no.

 

[btg3]

A while back, somebody posted a Saiga .410 that was set up for his wife who had some physical limitations.

IMO, hanging an extension off the front might aggravate a shoulder problem -- YMMV.

With a 12ga pump, you can put a .410 load in a 12ga shell.

 

[Blue Line]

You could shoot a 20 ga in a 12 ga gun with an adapter, not sure if they will cycle in a pump or auto but they are used often on the skeet and trap fields with single shots and over/unders.

http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Convert-shotgun-Reducer-Chamber/dp/B0039D64BE

 

[oneounceload]

^^^You are talking about subgauge tubes - those cost about $500 per set per gauge

Even a 357 carbine would another possibility as far as lower recoil is concerned, and you'll get 9 shots

 

[Deer_Freak]

The reducers on amazon turn your gun into a single shot. It appears you have to beat the brass out with a punch and a hammer. They can not be very accurate. She would be far better off with a Hi Point carbine.

 

[Blue Line]

$124 12 to 20.
http://www.gaugemate.com/purchase/new/product/1338-gaugemate-platinum-shotgun-to-shotgun

 

[Detritus]

One piece of clarification in response to those saying variations of the following

She would be far better off with... (some form of carbine)

she already has her own AR, doesn't need another carbine type, and wants a shotgun. I'm just trying to solve the question of how to get her what she wants, in a package she can use.

also on the Home defense side of things there's an issue of wanting to reduce the possibility of a shot "leaving the house". there's only about 60ft and two effective walls from our most likely location in the event of a break-in, to the neighboring house. And fewer barriers still if the bedroom and laundryroom doors (facing each other) are open.
I KNOW a .223 would blow through all that, and i'm not confident that a 9mm or .45 carbine would be slowed enough to matter. But Buckshot probably wouldn't get through the hardwood Shiplap siding they built this place with 60yrs ago. stuff certainly stops drills and dulls saws....

 

[tarpontom]

I had a right total shoulder replacement several years ago. I just got into skeet/trap shooting but was very concerned about recoil. I tried a friend's 12 gauge Beretta with the kick-off system and it didn't bother me so I went to Bass Pro Shop to buy a Beretta. After "trying on" several different Berettas, the salesman put a 20 gauge Benelli Cordoba in my hands. Wow, what a difference in weight and ergonomics. It felt slim and comfortable compared to the bulkier Beretta's. Because it had the Comfortech stock and was only a 20 gauge I decided to give it a try.

I love it and it has no significant recoil. I can shoot 200 rounds without any discomfort afterwards. I added a Limbsaver recoil pad to try a longer LOP and it definitely had no recoil with that on but I like the fit better without, so I don't use it. The gun club has a 12 gauge Benelli Super Sport (Comfortech stock) and Sport II (wood stock) which I tryed just for comparison. Neither of them bothered my shoulder even after 175 rounds. I was so impressed that I wound up getting the 12 gauge Legacy Sport which is basically the same as the Sport II. I shoot both an equal number of rounds each time I go to the range but tend to favor the Cordoba because it's so light.

I read all the time that the "inertia driven systems" have more recoil than "gas" but at least with these Benellis and target loads that is not true. A big bonus with the Benellis is that they are very easy to clean as compared to the gassers. I'm not sure about the extended magazine issue. The down side is that they are kind of pricey. Plus the models with the synthetic Comfortech stock are all mostly black, devoid of wood in case your wife is "fashion conscience" when it comes to shot guns. Good luck.

 

[oneounceload]

I KNOW a .223 would blow through all that, and i'm not confident that a 9mm or .45 carbine would be slowed enough to matter. But Buckshot probably wouldn't get through the hardwood Shiplap siding they built this place with 60yrs ago. stuff certainly stops drills and dulls saws....

ACTUALLY, it is the other way around - the buckshot will easily got through the walls while the 223 seems to be easily stopped by sheetrock, siding, etc.

If she truly wants something she cab handle, the Remington 1100 in 28 or 410 will do the trick and not beat her shoulder to death

 

[Shadow 7D]

Ounceload beat me to it...
Yeah .223 stops pretty quickly, it is a FAST LITTLE pill, for the same energy, slow and heavy does more penetration than fast and light.

Check out Box o Truth (.com) they have some pretty cool posts on walls and different types of ammo.

 

[Detritus]

in case your wife is "fashion conscience" when it comes to shot guns

actually I'm the one that likes "Pretty Guns". She likes them black and "businesslike" closest thing to "pretty" or fashion she's gotten on any gun she owns is putting a set of Esmeralda grips on her 1911. When we went to Gander Mtn today to brwse adn let her try out a few for overall fit, I had to assure her that the shotguns we looked at that were finished in "Flat Dark Earth" (or whatever that "tactical tan" color is being called now), were also available in black, this was doubly true of the "Zombie Green" Versa-Max Tactical, lord is THAT thing ugly .

of the models she tried for fit today (obviously without any chance to test fire and find out actual recoil) the three she liked most were, a 7-shot 20ga 870 with one of the recoil reducing Knoxx adjustable stocks, a Youth stocked Remington Auto (think it had to be an11-87 since it was actually a slug gun, but again we were just trying a slew of things to see what best seemed to fit), and the 1100 Tac4.

it will still be awhile before we get anything at all, and she wants to try again with my 12ga but start with AA featherlights and working up a bit, just to see if it's a case of not having fired a shotgun bigger than 28ga in clost to 30years.