Remington LT-20 -vs- 11-87 20ga Compact -vs- Something Else

[roo_ster]

Howdy:

Remington LT-20 -vs- 11-87 20ga Compact

Looking for a lighter-weight and softer-recoiling shotgun for wife and son. Son will grow into a larger gun later, wife not so much, so I'll keep it in the household.

I already own a Rem 1100 in 12ga, so my first instinct is to look for a used 1100 20ga LT-20. Not too common and a bit spendy for what was on offer. I then look at new manufacture 11-87 20ga Compact and the effective retail price ($550-$600) is at or lower than most used LT-20 prices ($500-$700+).

Plus, most the LT-20 guns would require stock work and some would require installation of adjustable chokes (or another bbl). The 11-87 20ga Compact is turn-key. If I found a used LT-20 at, say, $300, it would be a no-brainer. Paying the same (or more) plus work to get it ready is a bit of a downer.

I have an idea how the 1100 and 11-87 differ in operation, but what concerns me is reliability given Remington's record the last few years.

So, what is the consensus on used 1100 LT-20 vs new 11-87 20ga Compact?



Something Else

Am I overlooking any gas operated semi-auto 20ga compact/light shotguns in this price range? I looked at some and all were well north of $1000 new. I got exicted at a $600 Franchi 20ga, but then determined it was recoil action. Several I handled were lighter than a LT-20 or 11-87 20ga and might do the trick, but they surely do come dear.

 

[Virginian]

Where is all this "record of Remington reliability" over the last few years crap relative to shotguns coming from ? There were some Expresses that had rough chambers years ago, but that's it.
For your uses a new 11-87 would seem to do it in my opinion. You can get a full size stock and or a longer barrel later if you want. The current finish is better than it used to be also in my opinion.

 

[cdb1]

Remington reliability is just fine. If you are set on Remington then get a compact 1187. I personally think the Weatherby SA-08 Compact is a better shotgun and you can get them new for around $500.00.

 

[DDDWho]

Some years ago I had a 1100 LT20. It was a beautiful shotgun, light and maneuverable. I don't recall it ever malfunctioning. Like so many guns I've had I don't even remember what happened to it. I miss it and wish I had it back. I don't know what I would do with it because I can't walk like I use to. In my younger days I could walk from sun up to sun down through all kinds of terrain day after day. The little light 20 made it easier.

 

[roo_ster]

Remington reliability is just fine. If you are set on Remington then get a compact 1187. I personally think the Weatherby SA-08 Compact is a better shotgun and you can get them new for around $500.00.

Gotcha on Remington.

Thanks for the heads-up on the SA-8. I looked at a Weatherby SA-8 and it was light & handy in 20ga. But...unless it is a Mauser-pattern rifle, I am not a fan of Turkish firearms. Got stung twice and not interested in taking anohter bite at that apple.

Where is all this "record of Remington reliability" over the last few years crap relative to shotguns coming from ? There were some Expresses that had rough chambers years ago, but that's it.
For your uses a new 11-87 would seem to do it in my opinion. You can get a full size stock and or a longer barrel later if you want. The current finish is better than it used to be also in my opinion.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[cdb1]

Gotcha on Remington.

Thanks for the heads-up on the SA-8. I looked at a Weatherby SA-8 and it was light & handy in 20ga. But...unless it is a Mauser-pattern rifle, I am not a fan of Turkish firearms. Got stung twice and not interested in taking anohter bite at that apple.

Not a problem. We have four Turkish made Weatherby shotguns in the family. I like them. They've held up well. I've got a fair number of shotguns and though my FABARM L4S is my favorite I shoot my SA-08 20 gauge Upland a lot during dove season.

 

[kudu]

My first shotgun was an LT-20, still have it to this day, it has had at least 20,000 shells through it. My Dad got it for me when I was 14, circa 1982, killed my first deer and several more after that with it. Had a mod fixed choke and a vent rib. Very reliable, replaced the o-ring at least twice so far. Shot my first 25, 50 and 75 straight with this gun on skeet with the mod choke. Bought a used 11-87 from another shooter in 1991, had a 30" and 26" barrel with it and I bought a cantilever rifled slug barrel for it later. Has been my most reliable Remington auto that I have. It has run well over 25,000 shells, almost all light target rounds. Had less than a box of 3" steel through it.

During the early 2000's they had a handful of dud 11-87's that got run and had problems with, that is where the bad rep came from for a short period of time. This did not include the 20 gauge 11-87, which I am sorry to say I have never shot or been exposed to. I have 3 other 1100's that have all been wonderful shooters that are small gauges. Have no experience with the Weatherby's, but do have a pair of Turkish SxS's that I really like.

 

[Wis-Harpo]

I bought a Rem 1100 20 Lt in 1996 with choke tubes, and never thought of selling it. I also had a 1100 12 Gauge Sporting at the same time, and gave it to my son in 1999 because I used the Lt 20 for quail, dove and pheasants. I wish I had the 1100 Sporting now, because I just got into Sporting Clays this spring. But my regular 1100 12 gauge and the 20 LT do well.

 

[entropy]

I picked up a Tri-Star Raptor in 20 ga. for the 4-H Shooting Sports program in our county. I am a Leader for it. I was impressed with the gun, reminded me of a Beretta A 302, shoots well, the only way I was able to make it jam was by firing it one-handed. (Many semis will jam from that) We use it for new shooters that Dad sent them with his duck gun, even though it's way too big for them. They do better with the 20 ga. (all our shooting is done at 16 yards)

 

[cdb1]

I haven't shot a Tri-Star but have heard enough good things about them from people I know, that I'd try one. I also wouldn't turn down a Mossberg SA-20.

 

[Riomouse911]

I love 1100's, you just can't go wrong with one!
Even though there are more modern guns that seem to run cleaner longer, or cycle a wide variety of shells in the same mag without a hiccup, the look-feel-operation of the old standby just works for me.
I bought an LT-20 off GB a few years ago with the intention of giving it to my son... then my dad handed me a like-new .410 1100 that I will let him cut his teeth on first (just to get used to the recoil and operation, etc.).
The LT has a 26" vent rib barrel with a modified choke installed, and its been a hoot on the trap range so far... so much so that the LT may just stay with me and I will find a good 20 elsewhere for the kiddo
Good luck with your search, it is a lot of fun looking for the perfect match for a new shooter...

 

[roo_ster]

A lot of good data, folks. I appreciate it.

One thing a buddy remarked on:
"Why not instead of buying a shotgun for your 12YO son and then giving it to your wife to use later, get your wife a shotgun and let your son use it until he grows into a 12ga?"

Hmm.

And then he tried to sell me on the new-ish Beretta A400 in 28ga for my wife. I looked at one in the gun shop. Light as a feather (5.5lbs), gas operated, and $1600 retail. Mighty spendy, but it has me thinking...several things:
1. Should have not brought my wife since now she's taken a shine to the Beretta.
2. This would be the most expensive gun I ever bought, if I pull the trigger.
3. Why did I listen to my buddy?
4. $1600 for a shotgun!?!?!?

Anyways, thanks again for all your input.

 

[PabloJ]

While we're well above $1000 mark for light as feather self-loading shotgun why not glorious who knows where made new Browning Auto-5 Sweet Sixteen. It is light weight shotgun with wonderful handling and while more expensive 16ga ammo can be bought at Walmart. They even have them fancy Winchester 1oz loads from Australia for $9.17 per box. One big advantage of 16ga is that lead shot ammo is loaded to sensible velocity of 1165fps meaning the gun is going to kick less.

 

[kudu]

If you pulled the trigger on that Beretta, I don't think you would be disappointed, but bear in mind that 28ga shells are quite expensive, hunting loads are a bit rare for them, you almost have to reload to shoot them much unless you have deep pockets. That said, I have at least 4 28 gauge shotguns that I love to shoot. Now I also load my 20 gauge shells to 3/4oz and they have the same payload as a 28ga and still run great in my LT20, super light load for a youngster to learn to shoot with and they break clays great.

 

[cdb1]

While we're well above $1000 mark for light as feather self-loading shotgun why not glorious who knows where made new Browning Auto-5 Sweet Sixteen. It is light weight shotgun with wonderful handling and while more expensive 16ga ammo can be bought at Walmart. They even have them fancy Winchester 1oz loads from Australia for $9.17 per box. One big advantage of 16ga is that lead shot ammo is loaded to sensible velocity of 1165fps meaning the gun is going to kick less.

I believe the new A5's to be harsh recoiling compared to almost any current production semi.

 

[PabloJ]

The new auto-5 has spring-operated self-loading system like the Benelli so there will be more felt recoil than in one with gas system. This is offset by great ammo loaded to 1165fps. Yes, if you choose the 16ga with 12ga payload (1&1/4oz shot) I bet it will test your tooth fillings if you have them. Not a major problem because box of ammo with 10z payload is about $7 and that with 1&1/8oz or 1&1/4 oz usually over $14. One member said that Dicks carries affordable Remington Game Loads in 16ga and when they have a sale they will usually sell them at cost of 12ga loads if you ask nicely. Unless one is looking for dedicated wildfowling gun (due to small selection of non-tox shot) the new sweet sixteen is a great choice.

 

[roo_ster]

OK, son and I will trek to the nearby trap & skeet range this Saturday to rent either their Beretta 20ga or 28ga and try a round or two of skeet.

 

[kudu]

OK, son and I will trek to the nearby trap & skeet range this Saturday to rent either their Beretta 20ga or 28ga and try a round or two of skeet.

Best thing you can do, try before you buy. When I pick up a new gun, first thing I do is close my eyes and take my time and mount it to my shoulder, open eyes and see if I am looking down the center of the rib. That will give you a good idea if it could be the gun for you. If you constantly have to realign it, not fitting too good.

 

[PabloJ]

A lot of good data, folks. I appreciate it.


4. $1600 for a shotgun!?!?!?

Anyways, thanks again for all your input.

There are some shotguns worth well over $1000 and there are some that simply aren't. I looked over second-hand like new cased 12ga 28" Beretta 687EL with price tag of $1500. Looking at beautiful wood with fine checkering and machine engraved "bouquettes de rosa" on faux side-plates one can deduce that the gun is well worth the asking price. Not for away there were bunch of semi-autos with aluminum metal components and plastic camo stacks costing same or even more, NOT worth the price. For love of God why people pay those prices for mass-produced nothing hecho a mano guns that much I will never know. Looking at sharpened thick peace of metal w/o any kind of handle for $450 one can only wonder. A fella told me that the only reason they can charge that kind of price for simple knife like that is that stupid Boo Boos will pay that price for it.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

I have an 1100 20-LT; it was my first shotgun.

Things to keep in mind.

First, it is a TRUE 20-gauge, built on a 20-gauge receiver, so it accepts few if any of the accessories out there for the other 1100 series guns. Second, the chamber only takes 2&3/4" shells, so unless you load your own, you have a pretty limited ammo selection. For that reason alone, I would have spent the extra $40 and bought the 11-87.

Maintenance tip: once a year, pull your barrel off, take a piece of 1/16th-inch wire and pull it through the inlet holes in the gas port. Also applies to the 11-87.

The Remington Jam: If you own a Remington shotgun, eventually you WILL experience a jammed gun due to a shell sliding up on top of the carrier...at least I've never seen one that I couldn't duplicate it with. Pull as hard as you can to rack the action. Or you can clear it on an 1100 by firing the chambered round. Also applies to the 11-87.

The Good Part About The 1100 20-LT: Light recoil...you can hold the gun across your palm, not even bother to put the butt on your shoulder, and fire five rounds as fast as you can squeeze the trigger, and you will be on target.

 

[entropy]

There are some shotguns worth well over $1000 and there are some that simply aren't. I looked over second-hand like new cased 12ga 28" Beretta 687EL with price tag of $1500. Looking at beautiful wood with fine checkering and machine engraved "bouquettes de rosa" on faux side-plates one can deduce that the gun is well worth the asking price. Not for away there were bunch of semi-autos with aluminum metal components and plastic camo stacks costing same or even more, NOT worth the price. For love of God why people pay those prices for mass-produced nothing hecho a mano guns that much I will never know. Looking at sharpened thick peace of metal w/o any kind of handle for $450 one can only wonder. A fella told me that the only reason they can charge that kind of price for simple knife like that is that stupid Boo Boos will pay that price for it.

So you've never shot a Beretta Urika or Benelli Montefelto. Pretty wood and engraved 'bouquettes de rosa' do not make a gun reliable. TO YOU, such guns aren't worth the price. And that's fine. To a guy who puts his guns through hell and high water (literally, for duck hunters), A Browning Maxus might be well worth it. I could put fancy wood and engraving on <brand of shotgun you don't like here> and it'd still be a polished turd. Some Spanish guns come to mind. Bikers have a saying, "Chrome don't get ya home".
I love a well-constructed O/U or SxS with nice wood and engraving as the the next guy, have owned a few, but I took my Savage 311 out in the duck blind, not my Win. 101. Until I got a 'soulless' 870.

 

[roo_ster]

Rented both a Beretta A400 28ga sized for an adult and a Bereta 391 20ga, cut to fit youth. That is what they had Saturday for rent. We then shot Skeet on our own terms, moving from station to station to work different angles until we got that one right.

My son preferred the 20ga. He said it kicked a bit less than the Rem 870 12ga shooting low recoil loads, but that it was much lighter and easier to tote about. He thought the 28ga OK, but it did not fit him as well.

For my own part, the 20ga had too short a LOP. To get a good line down the bbl took some effort, but when I did so, it was like the Hammer of Thor on clay targets. The 28ga's fit was good and I shot it well, too. It took less effort than the stumpy 20ga to shoot well. Were I to buy one for my own use, I would go with a properly sized 20ga and strike fear into clay targets. Frankly, I could do fine with a heavier Rem 11-87 or LT-1100 in 20ga. Size does matter and being big enough to tote a heavier gun allows for cheaper options.

OTOH, the difference in weight between 20ga and 28ga was significant and really points me toward the 28ga for my wife.

Next step is to wrangle time with my wife on the Skeet field. Supposedly the range has a Beretta A400 in 28ga that is cut for smaller shooters.. Will call and see if it is back from the team they loaned it to.

 

[kudu]

Looks like maybe 2 shotguns in the near future.

 

[expat_alaska]

I have an 1100 20-LT; it was my first shotgun.

The Remington Jam: If you own a Remington shotgun, eventually you WILL experience a jammed gun due to a shell sliding up on top of the carrier...at least I've never seen one that I couldn't duplicate it with. Pull as hard as you can to rack the action. Or you can clear it on an 1100 by firing the chambered round. Also applies to the 11-87.

I must differ, sir.

The only reason a live shell from the magazine will slide up on the shell carrier after the previous live round from the magazine chambered is because one or both shell stops are weak or not fitted (bent) correctly. That is easily corrected.

Forcibly racking the bolt (with the little finger bolt retractor) with a shell on the carrier with a live shell in the chamber is not advisable, and is very hard to do. You might also damage the rim on the offending live shell so that it will not chamber.

I am an old 870 guy, and it is hard enough to do with the full hand on the slide, I have owned 1100's before, and that is why I went to an 870.

The 870 and the 1100 are basically two peas in a pod insofar as mechanical feeding.

Two things to do:

1.) The left and right shell stops are peened into the frame and can come loose over time, so re-peen them well. I have seen them come completely loose enough to fall out on both 1100's and 870's over time. The stops may not have enough inward curve to adequately secure the shell in the magazine. Easily corrected by judiciously bending each inward a few thousands inch to insure good contact with both sides of the incoming shell rims from the magazine after re-peening them, and make sure that where the shell stop contacts the rim is square with the rim. They can wear over time .

2.) If you wish you can cut two longitudinal parallel 1/16th inch slots on the shell carrier far enough apart so as when using a small common-slot screwdriver to push the offending live round back into the magazine that you do not contact any part of the 209 primer. There used to be aftermarket shell carriers offered with this feature, but I am not sure these days.

Jim

 

[cota]

Probably not the cheapest option available to you here, but i feel you need two separate guns here and for very different reasons, going for one you will end up doing neither task well and end up butchering a gun to some extent no matter how well done a shortened stock is a shortened stock.
So First the wife by all means buy her a 1100lt20 or 1187 these guns offer very good long term options are not the cheapest kids on the block but are not the most expensive either, the Remingtons fit me and so many other shooters all shapes sizes and both sexes pretty good in my experience. throw me in a gun room full of guns tell me i got one box of cartridges and all i am eating that week is what i kill and can pick but one semi auto shotgun i would look for an 1100 or 1187 i know i will be killing with that thing for sure.The one size fits all term is not full proof but its pretty darn close i feel.
LT20s look good the wood the blue they look classy in a utilitarian sort of way, and remember they came out early 60s still look good.
Berettas 303s latter 300s good guns but they seem less natural in feel compared to the 1100s for me in both GAs.
Benelli M2s and others from benelli in 20ga are excellent handlers tough dependable but expensive, Now franchi 48AL although long recoil inertia is a truly amassing shotgun to shoot in any ga but the 20ga it is in its elementary handling perfection few guns can match this shotgun for function and slick handling but rare and in demand from those in the know.
So the wife i would go 1100 or a franchi 48al. she will love both the 1100 being the softer shooter by a little but its heavier.
Now the son. He may want to keep a 20ga into adult hood but he may not, making decisions practically has to be relatively short term and cheap because some stock alteration will be needed so effectively having the potential at least to make the gun less desirable long term.
bassed onthis i advise doing what i did with my kids i bought a Hatsan Escort 20ga these guns have stock length shims and rubbers which can go down to the smallest kid to large adults just with shims and a screwdriver.
Big plus they are cheap and are reliable ours is coming up 7 years now still faultless, kids out grew it moved on to 12s but i use it for a handy walk around the woods shotgun squirrels the odd rabbit pigeon on the walk with the dog. Use it several times a week most weeks and i seriously recommend these cheap semi autos despite the price.
Had a look on youtube found this video this gun is the same model we have here sans the cammo finish. Take a look.