need suggestions for accurate .22LR Rifle

[socalbeachbum]

I'm in the market for a great, accurate bolt action in .22LR

Looking at the many choices from Savage. Is a stainless steel barrel typically more accurate in this type of rifle, not due to the material, but due to rifling type or not? or is material not an issue?

Is a heavy barrel or any importance in .22LR if used benchrested?

Is barrel length a factor in accuracy if used with a scope?

any other suggestions or outstanding choices?

 

[Cee Zee]

It would be very hard to go wrong with a Savage MkII with a bull barrel. They are very accurate rifles. The stock you get matters but stainless really doesn't give you an advantage. I have quite a few .22LR rifles and the MkII is the most accurate one I have. One of the wood stocks or composite stocks would be good but stay away from their synthetic stocks. They aren't very good. You might want to get the model with the Mk FVT which has peep sights if you like that sort of thing. It does come with the synthetic stock though so at some point you would probably want to replace it.

But my CZ 453 is just a hair less accurate. There is very little difference and it is much better built rifle. Savages cost less of course but you won't see the level of quality in the stocks etc. that you see in a CZ. Both have very good triggers but IMO the 453 trigger is clearly better. Most people bought 452's though and they didn't have the set trigger the 453 has. Of course it will be hard to find either a 452 or a 453 not. It's all 455's now. Some say they aren't quite as good as the 452/453. I haven't shot one myself so I don't know.

I do know my Savage is temperamental and finicky about ammo. Plus it doesn't always feed real well. In those areas my CZ has it beat but again if it's bench rest accuracy you want the Savage is a very good choice. I've shot a lot of really good groups with my Savage. But for a hunting rifle the CZ is probably best because it doesn't have the bull barrel and is balanced better.

I'd have a hard time parting with either of those 2. If you want to go cheaper Marlin makes a very nice rifle in the XT series. If you want to go higher I'd look for an Anschutz. They are extremely hard to beat especially if you get a 54 series but they are expensive. Your budget has a lot to do with these things.

The truth is there are quite a few nice rimfire rifles around. To me the CZ and the Savages stand out for their value. Anschutz and maybe Sako stand out if you want top quality.

 

[socalbeachbum]

I have a Savage SS synthetic with lite barrel, in .22WMR now and it's accurate, and ammo choice is important. It came free floated. Guess I'd be inclined to get the same model in .22LR but want to research it before buying.

 

[chris in va]

CZ. I've had several, all are scary accurate and well built...if a bit quirky.

 

[ROAshooter]

CZ FS 452.........does a pic say it all???











that be three rounds..........at 100 feet...indoors.....tech-sights/peep...........not a scope

 

[Cee Zee]

that be three rounds..........at 100 feet...indoors.....tech-sights/peep...........not a scope

Using a scope at that distance would likely hurt your accuracy unless you have a very low power scope. I'm not knocking that rifle. It's a great rifle. But so is Savage. Does a pic say it all? How about 2 pics. Or 3?

5 shots, 50 yards, Savage MkII with a scope. The group size is .111".

Then there's this one. The first 4 shots are together. I ran out of ammo and had to use a different brand to finish out my 5 shot group. So basically just consider the 1 hole. That 4 shot group size is listed on the image. Again, Savage MkII at 50 yards.

I actually have quite a few of these. I have some that are similar that I shot with my 453 too. But the Savage does better. I shot this one with the CZ 453. 5 shots at 50 yards with a scope. The group size was .108".

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Cee Zee said a buncha good stuff in post #2.

I have no experience with the bull barrel Savage Mark II. I did, however, buy a Savage Mark II-F for my wife a couple years or so ago. We've not had a single problem with it and though I don't shoot competition, I'd not have a problem taking it squirrel hunting at all. Hasn't had a single problem with the 600-700 rounds of Remington Golden Bullets we've put through it.

I say "we"...what I really mean is "my wife and our youngest daughter". I only put about 10 rounds through it when I got it just to make sure it was sighted in and functioned.


Myself, I've got a Marlin 881 (.22LR) and a Marlin 783 (.22WMR). Both excellent rifles and are on the money with the cheap $9 Tasco scopes I have on them. Plenty good enough for me for squirrel hunting, plinking, and target shooting.

 

[WardenWolf]

Savage. I know of someone who made a competition shooter out of one after bedding the action and various other things. He's actually on this forum.

 

[StrawHat]

socalbeachbum,

Given your location, I am not sure if buying from the CMP would work for you. They have several good used 22 LR rifles for sale. My brother got a Mossberg and it is pretty accurate. I have a Ruger M77/22 and am pleased with it but if I were to recommend a good rimfire rifle it would be one of the Savage brand.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/22-target-commercial/

Kevin

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Another vote for CZ. I have had 5 and have no complaints.

 

[redneck2]

My CZ 453 Varminter has shot .2's with Wolf Match Extra @ 50 yards. My S-I-L has a Savage that is close but not quite as accurate. Either would astound most .22 users.

I have a friend that has a Savage/Anshutz. They are typically extremely accurate, but this one is a dog. Once you get to a certain level, it's ammo choice, technique, and luck of the draw IMO.

 

[Clint M]

I have not shot or handled the savage, however CZ's are the rimfire in my opinion that sets the standard for this time period. Years from now I would say the CZ 452,453,455 will be a sought after firearm.

I have a 452 thumbhole varmint very accurate, a 455 FS also very accurate however I have not scoped it, and use it for hunting, still with iron sights it will shoot better than I can see (and I can still see really well).

I always wanted a rem 40x to me that's the standard bench gun for rimfire, I had the chance getting a CMP purchase years ago, put a weaver 36x scope on it and have enjoyed it more than any other rimfire I have ever owned. It is the most accurate (not really a fair comparison) the only limiting factor is ammo I shoot mostly bulk in it unless someone wants to shoot a real backyard match. We have lots of people around here mostly kinfolk who think they have the most accurate 22 around, it's just costing more, and more to prove it(cost of ammo) if you even can find ammo to do so.

 

[fotheringill]

OP-

Apparently, you will be using for benchrest

I have owned Savage, CZ's Anschutz and a few others.

Before answering, need to know budget and confirmation if for plinking, hunting or benchrest.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I shoot local benchrest matches both sporter and heavy guns. A CZ does good in a sporter class. They can't compete with a heavy barreled target rifle like a Anschutz 54, Winchester 52, Remington 40x or Model 37. I have seem people try to buy a CZ Varmint thinking the heavier barrel is more accurate. It is not any better. I have also followed several people putting on a Lilja barrel trying to compete with heavier guns. They do ok, but generally are not as accurate or consistent.

 

[CB900F]

Socalbeachbum;

What you want will very likely be compared to what your budget is. There are dedicated .22lr rimfire bench guns that could be had for several thousands of dollars. Even most folks who can afford one don't see the need to go there, they are strictly competition firearms. Then there are the Anschutz 54 actioned guns and Cooper's running in the low thousands of dollars. Both brands being well known for their accuracy, with Anschutz probably running ahead of Cooper in most folks mind. Cooper getting the nod for great stock wood and better looks - with outstanding accuracy. Also in here are the used Winchester 52's and Remington 40Xb's, which are outstanding target guns, but that is pretty much their sole use.

Below the stratosphere we come to CZ, running in the mid hundreds of dollars and many feel they represent the best ratio possible these days of money, looks, and accuracy in our market. If you go over to dot rim fire central dot com and look in the CZ/BRNO forum you can see many of the guns and examples of the accuracy possible with them. MOA, or one inch at 100 yards is not at all unusual for a stock CZ if you do the requisite ammo testing.

Under the CZ's there gets to be a broad range of guns from various manufacturer's, Savage among them. Savage has it's proponents, and they can be capable of very good accuracy. However, having owned some, I feel that they're more of a crap shoot than CZ is in that department. There are Marlin's that shoot very well for casual pest control and plinking, but nobody's using them when serious accuracy is required. Which brings us to the Ruger 10/22 platform.

Ruger's are their own really rather large world. The rim fire central site started because of them, and there's a literal encyclopedia of information about them and the variations over there. Suffice to say that the basic, bone stock, gun has it's limitations. But, if you wish to spend the money, you can have whatever you want. If you want it to be in the same category as an Anschutz, you can get there, but you may have a bone-stock 10/22 left over after all the bits and pieces are purchased. You can make it a rimfire German MG42 machine gun look alike if you want, or anything else for that matter.

900F

 

[anothernewb]

jebbers those are tight groups. Dang. Now I gotta go look one of them up.

 

[tuj]

I'm in the market for a great, accurate bolt action in .22LR. Looking at the many choices from Savage.

Great and Savage don't go together (sorry CeeZee...); Savage is a very good value but it won't shoot with the big boys. I had a MKII and it wasn't accurate enough. I know your sample is surprisingly accurate, but I would not call CeeZee's groups representative of the AVERAGE MKII. I have shot at least five MKII's and they all varied in accuracy.

Is a heavy barrel or any importance in .22LR if used benchrested?

Yes, extremely important. Barrel rigidity is crucial in accuracy, as is managing barrel 'whip'.

Is barrel length a factor in accuracy if used with a scope?

Absolutely. You probably won't want to go much beyond 20" but I know some folks who tune for 24". Mostly the longer barrels past 20" are for sight radius for position shooting.

any other suggestions or outstanding choices?

Ok, you said you wanted a GREAT or OUTSTANDING gun for what I take as benchrest shooting. Here are your choices:

-54-series action Anschutz (skip the 64-series), old is just as good as new.
-Remington 37 or 40X action.
-Winchester 52C or D action.
-custom action: BAT, Turbo, Hall, Myers (I have a Myers and a blueprinted 40X and competed with a 54-Anschutz as well)

Notice I said actions. To build a competitive rifle, you will probably need it rebarrelled. I use a Benchmark 6-groove barrel on my 40X and a Myers barrel on my Myers action.

Then you need a stock. I use McMililians on both my bench rifles. Scope power is typically 36x, the Weaver T36 is a good value here. Triggers are usually very light (2oz - 8oz) and Jewell is a prominent name for aftermarket triggers. You need a good rest also and solid rear bag (or a 1-piece rest). Pappas, Hart, Sinclair all have good rests available.

Then you need good ammo. I select from:
-Eley Match (black box, speed is important!)
-Eley Tenex
-RWS R50
-Federal UM22 Ultramatch
-Lapua Midas+

Do all that and you can come in 2nd in the Texas State Championship like I did in 2012! (the guy who beat me is the multi-time national champ)

 

[Cee Zee]

Once you get to a certain level, it's ammo choice, technique, and luck of the draw IMO.

Right on all 3 counts especially the last one. Rifles aren't perfect and shooting requires near perfection to get the super groups we all look for. Even the best gun makers aren't as consistent as we would like. The amount of variance it takes to make a rifle not shoot well is incredibly small. The smallest thing can mean the difference between a world beater and just a beater.

Great and Savage don't go together (sorry CeeZee...); Savage is a very good value but it won't shoot with the big boys. I had a MKII and it wasn't accurate enough. I know your sample is surprisingly accurate, but I would not call CeeZee's groups representative of the AVERAGE MKII. I have shot at least five MKII's and they all varied in accuracy.

Actually if you look you'll see that I listed other rifles that were better. CZ builds a better rifle IMO but Savage can put out some very accurate rifles. Again (as I said before) the OP's budget should be driving this conversation.

BTW my Savage didn't start out shooting like it does. Actually it would do it once in a while which told me it was capable but it was finicky as heck. It took me forever to work out all the bugs from that rifle to get it to shoot like it does now. You're right that you can't just buy a Savage that shoots like mine does. I've put a lot of work into making it shoot that way from experimenting with torque on the action screws (the rifle is very picky about that) to getting rid of the cheap synthetic stock it had originally to finding the right ammo and figuring out that it had to shoot the same ammo for about 25-30 rounds before it really settled in to shooting that ammo well to figuring out that cleaning it made it shoot worse and about 50 other little details that most people wouldn't take the time to work out. The only reason I did it was because a couple of weeks after I bought the rifle it shot a .19" group and at times it would put bullets exactly where I aimed. That's another place I had problems BTW. The scope mounts were off kilter and I had to shim them just right. I also pillar bedded it so it would accept more torque on those action screws.

It really took a lot of work to get it right. But once it got there it will shoot. I've posted the results here. I have a lot of examples of how well it shoots. But I spent thousands of dollars on ammo to get there not to mention mounting a Weaver T-36 on it. It is not your average Savage.

On the other hand I did almost nothing to make my CZ shoot great. That's one of the reasons I say it's a better rifle than the Savage. But even a Savage that hasn't been tweaked like mine will often shoot very well. Just not like mine.

And still I know there are rifles that shoot better than my Savage but the truth is they don't shoot all that much better. But at a certain level a little goes a long way.

I shot a 2250 on an ARA target. The best shooters (the ones that win national championships) average aroujnd 2400. For a lowly Savage to shoot that close to the top is pretty amazing. But those better rifles are still way more consistent than my Savage and they are more accurate even if it isn't a lot. The thing is there's a difference of about 1/16th of an inch between a 50 score on a target and a 100 score on that same target. That really isn't a lot better but it is better. And it will be better on almost every group of 25 targets that are on an ARA sheet.

If a person wants to save a few bucks to start out then a Savage isn't a bad choice. But keep in mind that if you want real accuracy that $150 you saved will last you a month or less when you start feeding your beast. Money spent up front almost saves you money in the long run because you can get to where you want to be with less practice and less tweaking.

There's a reason I chose the name I did. I could have picked a name that had something to do with a Savage but my CZ rimfire is just a better rifle. Now if you ask me about my .223 Savage you'll get an argument about Savage being great. That rifle "is" great. It is exceptional in almost every way. And like my CZ it took no tweaking at all to get it there. But again a truly "great" rimfire costs way more than a Savage does. I didn't get the impression the OP wanted a full out bench rest rifle but I could be wrong. If that's the case then the rifles you mentioned are pretty much where it's at. I might add a Suhl to your list but they're hard to find and parts are even harder to find. The Savage I have is actually a varmint rifle. It was designed for shooting rats for the most part. It's a very nice rifle that you won't have to worry about beating up because it isn't the best looking rifle to start with.

 

[tuj]

CeeZee: sounds like we are in agreement; the OP should take the CZ for a moderately priced rifle, although if he wants to compete in BR, I really think more is necessary to be competitive. There are lots of good used BR rifles out there. That's where I would look if I was getting into competition (in fact, that's exactly what I did).

I don't use the IR50/50 or ARA target, just the USBR. Hard to compare scores. No one, including the nat'l champ, has shot a 250 on the USBR at our range (well, my OLD range).

 

[Cee Zee]

A friend of mine has shot like 5 perfect ARA scores. No one else has ever shot more than 1 or they hadn't when he shot his perfect scores. I think others have done multiple perfect scores but none like my friend. He actually shot one with a pistol. He has helped me a lot with my shooting. He took on the role of my mentor actually. He has been really good to me. I can't really repeat his name here though. Sorry.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I love the USBR target. Anything else feels like cheating. I have never shot a 250 on it. I have shot a 248, though.

 

[gazpacho]

A great entry level bench rest 22lr would be the Baikal CM-2. It comes with front globe and rear peep sights, an adjustible trigger, and a drop adjustible butt plate. With Wolf Match Target ammo, I can shoot an honest 10 shot 1/2" group at 50 yards.

I am not a bench rest shooter. I just enjoy shooting iron sights, and wanted one bench rest gun.

 

[Cee Zee]

I love the USBR target.

We use the ARA target at my club. So does my friend. I think it's pretty dang tough. It's probably the more popular target around the country too.

 

[CB900F]

Socalbeachbum;

What is your intended use for the gun? Roughly, what is your budget?

900F

 

[d2wing]

On the average CZ' s will outperform Savage and most other rifles in there price range. There is a lot of information on dedicated Rimfire forums. Also it is the most popular rife for sporter weight silhouette shooting by far in it's price range.
Cee Zee has one Savage and one CZ and I believe that his Savage out shoots his CZ. But that is not as common as the other way around, and the CZ has fewer issues out of the box. But many shooters are very happy with a Savage and some of them are very accurate.
If you do some research I think you will choose CZ if you want to shoot competitively. I have won matches with my two CZ's.