Need To Switch From Unique To a Rifle Powder?

[345 DeSoto]

I took my new AR-45 to the range yesterday, and fired the rounds I'd loaded for my 1911 pistol through it. The rifle barrel is 16 inches long, but I had a lot of unburned Unique flakes on the bench, after firing it. To ME, unburned powder is lost power (not to mention wasted money)! Could I load the 45 ACP rounds, that I shoot from the rifle, with something like IMR4227 to eliminate the problem...or would I be opening up another can of worms? The M1 Carbine rounds that I load with IMR4227 don't leave any unburned powder...( and I have a BUNCH of it). How about using LR primers (Fedaral 400's), since the Unique obviously didn't all ignite in 16 inchs of barrel using CCI LP primers?

 

[Blue68f100]

Rifle powder are to slow for pistols with the exception of a few Mag caliber which use very slow powder. I would suggest WST or WSF if you want powder that burns clean. And these powders will meter very good being ball powder. WST will burn clean at and below min. It's also reverse temp sensitive. Meaning it get stronger with colder temp and looses velocity as the temp goes up.

I don't know what load you were at with Unique but you need to be in the upper end for it to burn some what clean.

 

[345 DeSoto]

5.7 and 6.5 grains of Unique...

 

[MSgtEgress]

AA#5 or #7 are also good choices.

 

[loose noose]

In .45acp I've always had good luck using Bullseye in pistol as well as carbine, Some say it leaves a sooty film on the gun but it all wipes off with an oily rag.

 

[Kernel]

Do "looks" matter in ammunition? To me, the only things that really matter are cost, function, velocity, and accuracy. If those four criteria are met, then I have a good load.

What difference does it make if there are tiny traces of unburnt powder? Really. It's cosmetic. The true amount is minuscule.

If the unburnt powder caused my AR to malfunction, then the criteria are not met. The load is rejected, and I'd move on to something else.

 

[Havok7416]

Do "looks" matter in ammunition? To me, the only things that really matter are cost, function, velocity, and accuracy. If those four criteria are met, then I have a good load.

What difference does it make if there are tiny traces of unburnt powder? Really. It's cosmetic. The true amount is minuscule.

If the unburnt powder caused my AR to malfunction, then the criteria are not met. The load is rejected, and I'd move on to something else.

This sums it up in a nutshell. You aren't putting more than a few cents worth of powder into each cartridge to begin with. The few flakes that are left behind mean almost nothing. You should be getting a full burn out of the powder with a barrel that long, but I wouldn't sweat it.

Switching powder is not a function of the type of weapon, it's a function of the type of cartridge. You are shooting a pistol cartridge, so use a pistol powder. I understand IMR 4227 is a cross-over powder, but I would stick with Unique, Bullseye, or something else similar.

 

[rcmodel]

And you should not try to use Lg Rifle primers in Lg Pistol cases.

LG Rifle primers are slightly taller then LG pistol primers and may not seat all the way below flush.

rc

 

[Steve C]

To ME, unburned powder is lost power (not to mention wasted money)!

Oh get over it!

Only thing that matters is accuracy and decent velocity, both of which Unique gives you. What you see is a few left overs of burned powder. Do you think things burn to nothing? There always ash and other remnants. Fine granulated powders still leave remnants you don't see as easily since they're small because the powder grains are small.

 

[blarby]

Ok, lets take this one at a time :

took my new AR-45 to the range yesterday,

Awesome- you lucky devil.

and fired the rounds I'd loaded for my 1911 pistol through it. The rifle barrel is 16 inches long, but I had a lot of unburned Unique flakes on the bench, after firing it.

At subpar pressure- unique burns "uncleanly". This is one of the reasons people complain about it being dirty. You probably just never noticed in your pistol, because you don't shoot it on a bench, and thus can't see the particles.

To ME, unburned powder is lost power (not to mention wasted money)!

While I agree, I also get a lot of unburned unique in well performing shotgun loads- another use for a powder that can be used in so many different applications.

Could I load the 45 ACP rounds, that I shoot from the rifle, with something like IMR4227 to eliminate the problem...or would I be opening up another can of worms?

Can ? Thats a dumpster of worms, and undoubtedly over pressure just thinking about it. If you have burn problems with unique, just wait till you get downlaoded 4227 .... you'll vomit on yourself, for certain.

The M1 Carbine rounds that I load with IMR4227 don't leave any unburned powder...( and I have a BUNCH of it).

Huge pressure difference. Look up the pressures your 30 carbine rounds peak at, VS your 45 ACP's. There is a league of space in there, and you aren't going to fill it. Trying to compare the two is....difficult.

How about using LR primers (Fedaral 400's), since the Unique obviously didn't all ignite in 16 inchs of barrel using CCI LP primers?

While you can bore out LPP's to LRP's, a better idea would be to either :

A. Switch to a cleaner burning powder such as W231, OR;

B. Switch to a Large Magnum Primer, start your load workup back at 5.5 grs of unique, and go from there.

C. Increase to max load of unique, using standard primer, and check for "mess" then.

All three of things could, may, or may not work- but I'd try A and C before B. I've done B, and I use it in full power HP loads, but it was a long process with a chrony, and not something I care to repeat. As it is, I'm certain the rounds I developed are +P, so I cannot provide the recipes to you publicly.

What I actually would like to know is, how did those dirty rounds perform ?

Poorly ? Or did you just not like the "mess" ?

 

[345 DeSoto]

BLARBY - Zeroing @ 50 yds to get it on the paper, I had 3 round groups touching, like a silhouette of Mickey Mouse's head. Ran out of ammo before I could zero to the "X", and take it to 100 yds...
And thank you for the detailed info...it's appreciated...

 

[blarby]

Well, ****

Deal with the mess, and forget all that crap, lol

 

[243winxb]

Could it be a "plated" bullet? 230 gr?

I do not see the bullet weight, brand or type being used?? I do see Unique powder used at

5.7 and 6.5 grains of Unique...

Is there a Lee fcd being used?

 

[243winxb]

Low powder charge = low pressure.

The rounds are Berrys 185 grn HBRN plated.

Found the problem, light neck tension & light powder charge. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/422325_Help_With_Working_Up_an_IMR4227_Load_for_45ACP.html 8.2 gr of Unique is maximum, put some powder in the case. Alliant data for 185 gr GDHP Dont use a hollow base bullet, unless you change powder to Alliants Bullseye, if you want lighter target loads.

 

[mstreddy]

345 - another thing to take into consideration is that generally AR pistol carbines are dirty. You should see what my 9mm AR does to the brass and the chamber area.

 

[243winxb]

Clay powder & Berry's .45ACP 185gr HBRN plated

4.5 gr Clay powder would seem to be another good choice for the 185 gr your using. http://www.berrysmfg.com/blog-m0912-blog.aspx Velocity is low using 4.5 grs. make sure the bullets get out the end of the 16" barrel. From the link, read this part

Bumping the powder charge up to 5.2 or 5.4 will ...............

 

[ghitch75]

that is what non chlorinated brake cleaner is for......i run everything through my carbine....blow the crap out of it....

 

[Curator]

Try a heavier bullet and a bit more crimp. Unique is "dirty" at low pressures. I had the same issue with my Mech Tech .45ACP carbine using Unique and the standard 230 grain slug. I switched to a cast 255 grain slug and no more unburned powder, better accuracy, and a real "pig-thumper" to boot.

 

[blarby]

Well, thanks 243.

I simply assumed he was using 230rn's

Thats what you get for assuming and not asking, I suppose.

 

[Kernel]

.... 3 round groups touching ...

I've heard this story before. Reloaders, on the gun end, disappointed with "messy" Unique, while on the target end good accuracy is achieved.

Cost, function, velocity, and accuracy.

 

[345 DeSoto]

Thanks, one and all, for the input. I was just concerned that unburned powder was not a good thing as far as efficiency. As for the residue in the chamber/bolt/carrier, I just spray it down with carb and choke cleaner. I have no complaints on the accuracy with the Unique. However, the groups REALLY tightened right up...once I tightened down the loose Scope Mount screws!...:banghead: