Neighbor fires on Burglars

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joebogey

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This took place not far from where I live. Don't imagine these boys will be in the business after this as they were pretty scared when pulled over. They couldn't believe someone would actaully shoot at them.

http://www.nicholasnewsonline.com/Archives/January 2008/January 16/topofthenews011608.html

Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 117 So. Locust St. - Carlisle, KY - 859-289-NICK(6425)



Shots are fired: two arrested

By Charles Mattox
News Editor
[email protected]

Police arrested two young Carlisle brothers Tuesday morning following a robbery and subsequent shooting incident on Lower Sharpsburg Road.


Nicholas County Sheriff Dick Garrett and Deputy Bennie Buckler, arrested Clayton Thomas Kimes, 21, of Hollar Road, Carlisle, and his brother Brandon Robert Kimes, 18, of Concord Road, Carlisle, at approximately 9 a.m. Tuesday morning Jan. 15.


Garrett and Buckler charged them both with burglary, second degree.


Carlisle Chief of Police William Denton and Carlisle Police Officers Mike Kiskaden and Brad Weaver, assisted Garrett and Buckler.


The arrests came on the heels of a shooting incident at 3995 Upper Sharpsburg, where the Kimes brothers allegedly committed burglary at a residence of Jim Robert Willoughby, according to police.


“The subject (Brandon Kimes), drove a truck around the residence where his brother (Clayton Kimes) kicked the front door open,” Brandon Kimes’ arrest citation reads. “A Play Station (video) game was taken from the residence that was later recovered in the subjects’ truck. The victim identified the Play Station as the one taken from his residence. A neighbor witnessed the burglary, fired several rounds at the suspects.”


Marion Kearns, who was armed with an AR-15, fired several .223 caliber bullets, according to Buckler and Garrett.


One of the fired rounds entered the rear window of the white S-10 pickup truck driven by the Kimes brothers. The round grazed the headrest of the drivers seat during its trajectory.


“Multiple shots were fired,” Buckler said. “Mr. Kearns has not been charged, nor will he be charged.”


Kearns and several of his neighbors have been the victims of a recent rash of thefts. He said he didn’t hesitate when he saw his neighbor’s property being burglarized.


Kearns, 60, has lived at his residence near Willoughby’s property for 51 years.


“I could have shot him between the eyes if I’d have wanted too,” Kearns said of one of the brothers he confronted.


“But I know he’s young and maybe he can get his life turned around. I hope the court system won’t fail us. They certainly had no fear that I could see and they did break into a man’s property in broad daylight.”


According to police, the brothers left the area and were stopped after neighbors dialed 911 and alerted police. The Kimes brothers were stopped in their vehicle near the outskirts of Carlisle on the Moorefield Road.


No weapons or drugs were found in the Kimes vehicle, according to Buckler.


Buckler said the Play Station and a missing sawzaw were recovered from the Kimes truck.


Buckler said he believed other items were going to be taken before concerned neighbors foiled the burglary.


“They had also removed a plasma TV from the wall at the Willoughby residence,” Buckler said. “They had it unplugged and were getting ready to carry it out when they were discovered by a neighbor, Mr. Kearns.”


According to Buckler, the Willoughby home suffered damages of approximately $1,500 due to the nature of the entrance.


Buckler and Garrett praised the efforts of the Carlisle officers who assisted them.


“It was a good cooperative effort,” Buckler said and added that the investigation received no cooperation from either Clayton or Brandon Kimes.


“They refused to make a statement of any kind,” Buckler said. “They exercised their right to remain silent.”


Buckler was asked about the actions of Mr. Kearns in helping protect his neighbor’s property.


“We all need more good neighbors like Mr. Kearns,” Buckler said. “And we appreciate all of the good cooperation other individuals and witnesses have provided during our initial investigation.”


Buckler said more charges might be filed against the Kimes brothers.

Title should read "burglars" and not burgulars. Got a little carried away there.
 
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“I could have shot him between the eyes if I’d have wanted too,” Kearns said of one of the brothers he confronted. “But I know he’s young and maybe he can get his life turned around..."

Sounds like the burglars got "lucky" they ran into this gentleman. Seems like some others may have had a different attitude and may have taken the shot between the eyes.

Take care,
DFW1911
 
Mods

Not sure who I should thank for correcting the title, but I appreciate it.
I'll try to do better from now on. :D
 
Kudos to the sheriff's dept. for not filing charges. Had a gentleman not to far from me a couple weeks back get charged with assault with a deadly weapon for shooting at a man he found breaking into his vehicle. Happened in city limits though. I think it might have been different had it occured out in the county, the sheriffs tend to have a slightly different mentality than city cops in most cases.
 
“They refused to make a statement of any kind,” Buckler said. “They exercised their right to remain silent.”

Obviously not their first run in with the law. Sounds like they know how to work the system.
 
Actually, from what I gather, this was not their first run in with LE. Just the first time somebody had the gonads to do something about it.
 
These two didn't think anyone would shoot at them? And this is in Kentucky? Sounds to me like they were very lucky.

And, not to be pedantic (though besides commas and parenthetical remarks, I'm well known for) but:

a missing sawzaw were recovered

I thought the word was "sawsall". Or is that just a Kentuckian accent?
 
These two didn't think anyone would shoot at them? And this is in Kentucky? Sounds to me like they were very lucky.

Well now, ya got to remember, there's Ky and then there's Eastern KY. Two completely different animals. Ky folk are a little less likely to put your lights out for ya than Eastern Ky folks.
Eastern Ky folks will put your lights out and then stick'em back in to see the expression on your face. These boys just hadn't worked their way far enough East or they'd been gone long before now.
But ya shore can't blame the Old Man for tryin. :D

As for the report and the sawsall thing, the author probably has no idea what the cops were talkin bout to start with. But if you tol me you needed to borry my sawzaw, I'd know exactly what ya needed. ;)
 
I'm glad the sheriff won't charge the neighbor. Since I have moved to NC, as ryanl said above, I have learned that they aren't very tolerant of endangering criminals in this state.
 
understand that he broke the law too

:banghead:i want you to think about what the sheriffs department has done though, i am in full agreement that a person has the right to defend themselves and there property. no problem with that. and i am a firm believer that we need more watchfull neighbors like mr. kearns. but the law is the law. mr. kearns fired 18 rounds from an ar-15 down a road at the suspects, 18 rounds from a high powered weapon! some rounds didn't even hit the truck, so where did they end up? no one knows, they had to count the shell casings on the ground.think about this, what if you were minding your own buisines traveling up the road in your vehicle headed towards the scene and one of those stray bullets hits you or a family member, changes things doesn't it. even though that didn't happen, and thank god that it didn't, a many of things could have happened.
all this sheriff's department has done is weaken an already weak judicial system in ky. mr. kearns should have been (charged) but not arrested with wanton endangerment 1st. it is not our job, as law enforcement officers to be the judge and jury at a scene, we must act on the evidence in front of us. and proceed that way, mr. kearns should be tried by a jury of his peers as written into the constitution. if he is found innocent so be it, if guilty so be it.
trust me, i know of this sheriff department and it in itself is crooked, and into illegal activities, all this was just to get votes and people on it's side. so please just consider this when making opinions, some will agree with me and some won't, that is what we love about this country though.:cool:
 
Discretion

Gotta say, I admire the exercise of "prosecutorial discretion" in this matter.

There are any number of ways this could have ended badly but, on balance, I think their decision was a good one.

The two boys now have a new element to consider in their risk factor analysis. They will either choose a different venue to ply their trade, or reconsider their "trade" altogether.

Prosecuting the neighbor doesn't equate to justice.

Law enforcement, and the people who command law enforcement, are fond of "sending a message" to lawbreakers.

I think this is an effectively sent message.

"Y'all don't want t' get shot? Y'all should stop rippin' people off and causin' harm.

I think the boys will get that message.

Maybe some of their peers will hear it, too.
 
Welcome to THR, Lawmanofky. I have a feeling you're going to be in the minority on this one.

I used to live in western Ky and even the populated areas are not very populated. I think it's possible that the shooter was following the 4 rules and was aware of his target and what was behind it. Nothing else was apparently hit, so your "what if" doesn't hold water in this case.

I think what we're seeing is a backlash to "weak judicial systems" that keep letting criminals back out onto the street and cops that seem to spend as much time arresting victims as they do criminals. (This is not directed at all LEO's and not intended as bashing, just those that want to arrest the victim for defending themselves.) Perhaps the Sheriff understands this better than you do. If I were on the jury, the guy would walk making the trial a waste of time and taxpayer money. The Sheriff may have figured this out while he was on scene. As far as the Sheriff being crooked, we have only your word for that.

People are getting tired of being victimized by repeat offender criminals that don't fear the justice system or Law enforcement. I think there are going to be more shootings of this type in the future.
 
It seems like the Sheriff COULDVE charged Kearns. But he made the right call. If Kearns HAD shot a kid coming down the street on a bicycle by accident, I'm afraid I would have to join those calling for his arrest.

In this case it turned out well. I'm glad. But one should NEVER fire shots at a truck fleeing off with your neighbor's crappy PS2. Now if Kearns ran into the boys inside his neighbor's house, and the boys tried to run him over... different story.
 
They couldn't believe someone would actaully shoot at them.

That seems to be the criminal mindset....."Hey, we're 'THE Bad Boys'... aint nobody gonna be eff'n with us."

Not sure how that would play around here, either, but ya gotta like the High Sheriff there for his thinking.

I do remember around '95 or so, when I lived in Charleston, SC, CPD chief Ruben Greenberg's statement after a similar incident there:

"The criminal element should consider possibly getting shot as an occupational hazard"
 
lawmanofky wrote:

but the law is the law. mr. kearns fired 18 rounds from an ar-15 down a road at the suspects, 18 rounds from a high powered weapon! some rounds didn't even hit the truck, so where did they end up? no one knows, they had to count the shell casings on the ground.think about this, what if you were minding your own buisines traveling up the road in your vehicle headed towards the scene and one of those stray bullets hits you or a family member, changes things doesn't it. even though that didn't happen, and thank god that it didn't, a many of things could have happened.


Many things could have happened, but they didn't. Its VERY easy to arm-chair quarterback a situation like this.

The same could be said of many of the encounters where LEOs have to discharge a firearm in the line of duty.

Sometimes circumstances and rapidity of a situation must be taken into account.

all this sheriff's department has done is weaken an already weak judicial system in ky.


This statement REALLY concerns me. We should STRENGHTEN the legal system by going after those that HAVE NO evil intent? Worry more about the multitude of criminals the legal system is letting out on the street and not with 60 year old homeowners!

I've been noticing lately that many of the recent nation-wide news events have involved shooters who ALREADY had long felony records and in one case had a murder conviction. Pray tell why he was out on the street to kill again?

Strengthening the legal system begins and ends with itself. A good start would be holding onto the criminals you already have. Leave decent Americans out of this equation.

mr. kearns should have been (charged) but not arrested with wanton endangerment.

We will have to disagree. The letter of the law is not the best measure of things. That is why common law exists. By your letter of the law, a woman who shoots her rapist on a city street should not be charged with the shooting, but SHOULD be charged with discharging a firearm in the city limits.

This is one of those things that is WRONG with the legal system. Because you CAN charge a person is not a reason TO charge a person. That isn't the spirit of the law. Something is WRONG with our system when a person can do the RIGHT thing and still face legal challenges and then mounting legal bills.

You want to charge him? How much do you think he'd have to pay lawyers? Way to encourage the ole' legal system... financially ruin people who DO have the courage and character to stand up to criminals.


That line of thinking is disgusting to me, frankly.


it is not our job, as law enforcement officers to be the judge and jury at a scene, we must act on the evidence in front of us. and proceed that way,

True, but I'd EXPECT LEOs to have a sense of decency and weigh the right and wrong of it. What we DON'T need in this country is more Judge Dredd's walking around. We could use a few more Andy Taylor's.


mr. kearns should be tried by a jury of his peers as written into the constitution. if he is found innocent so be it, if guilty so be it.

And never mind the financial ruin you will be heaping on his head. I seriously hope you think about these things. You have the power to ruin lives in you job. I truly hope you learn understanding and wisdom in carrying out your job.



i know of this sheriff department and it in itself is crooked, and into illegal activities, all this was just to get votes and people on it's side.

So far, the evidence that I've seen has been a dept. that does the right thing. I'd need evidence.

But lets see... you say they are into illegal things. I don't like that, but I think I'd almost prefer that to a department that charges people as you advocated earlier. A corrupt office that treats the citizens with decency and understanding-- or a shiny clean one that would financially ruin a homeowner for doing the right thing? I don't care for either, but I think I'd feel safer with the former.

so please just consider this when making opinions, some will agree with me and some won't, that is what we love about this country though.


Fair enough.



Welcome to the High Road, and I do hope you'll stay around.



-- John
 
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First off, I want to say I don't know any of these people so don't think I have an axe to grind.
I have heard on good authority though, that the father of these boys has had his share of trouble with the law.
And either last week or the week before the father wrote a "letter to the editor" in the local paper complaining because charges hadn't been filed against the neighbor. What if one of the boys had his daughter in the truck? What if one of them had been killed over something like this?
What if? What if? What if?
What if it were your kids in this situation?
Yada Yada Yada

Newsflash!
This was most likely not the first time these boys had done this. The only difference was the fact that they didn't get caught before now. And all the "what ifs" in the world doesn't change the fact that they took a chance and lost.

He!!, if I knew the old man, I'd buy him a beer. And it wouldn't take a whole lot to persuade me to replace the ammo he used up. Just in case he needed it again ya know.;)
 
There had been a number of burglaries in the area. What if Mr. Kearnes was the next victim on the following night and those guys had bashed his head in? There's your 'what if' scenario.

Mr. Kearnes did the right thing. He helped get thugs off the street and no one was hurt. As he said, he could have put a bullet between their eyes, but chose not to. Thankfully the sheriff knows what's right.

Burglary can be dangerous work.
 
lawmanofky
I also want to start off with a hardy "Welcome" and hope you keep up with the debate.

I don't know the laws of KY so I'm not going to get into the specifics of what laws were or were not broken. I am going to chime in on the "what if" aspect.

Law and policy making shouldn't happen on the basis of "what if", it should happen on a solid basis of "what IS" or what has actually happened. Unfortunately in recent years there has been a LOT of lawmaking in the "people might possibly do X, Y, or Z" projection of fears category.

However, law enforcement does not happen on the basis of "what if", it happens on the basis of what laws were actually broken. There are a number of things that could have happened here...but didn't, and while I agree that we must be extremely careful about developing an "end justifies the means" mentality we must be equally as careful about setting policy based on "what if" because that's a slippery slope that never ends.

Lax said... Burglary can be dangerous work.
Burglary SHOULD be dangerous work. (fixed it for ya) :neener:
 
law enforcement does not happen on the basis of "what if", it happens on the basis of what laws were actually broken.

So what happen to the rule of not drawing your firearm unless you are in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm??

I swear there must be two sets of posters on this forum. One set roasts a poster for drawing his gun for no good reason, and the other set applauds what the first set would call a reckless shoot. The part I can't figure out is why the two sets never seem to post on the same thread.

Where are the replies asking if someone's life is worth the cost of a TV and PS2? Where are the people asking if it's right to shoot someone while they're running a way?

I just don't get it.
 
Looks like the criminals are the ones in danger in KY and that coincides with the Brady report card of 2 for KY.
 
Dragonfire wrote:

So what happen to the rule of not drawing your firearm unless you are in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm??


Who made that rule? There are SOME of us who live in states where it is legal to defend property. Whether or not you choose to exercise that right in those states is a personal decision based upon your own ethos.

Dragonfire wrote:

I swear there must be two sets of posters on this forum.

There are many different posters who have differing views on this topic.

Dragonfire wrote:

One set roasts a poster for drawing his gun for no good reason, and the other set applauds what the first set would call a reckless shoot.

There is a school of thought that does not consider defending property where allowed by law as "no good reason."

The part I can't figure out is why the two sets never seem to post on the same thread.

There's been numerous threads on this topic where this has been the case. Its really an old topic.


-- John
 
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