Never again. From my cold, dead hands.

[borntwice]

Raystonn, I, for one, wish that every responsible Jew - who wishes to - owned and knew how to defend himself with a firearm.

Unfortunately there are a lot of Jews on the left who side with the anti-gunners, which is sad, since if the Jews had been armed prior to WWII, Hitler's minions would have had a fight on their hands when trying to round them up.

 

[borntwice]

Nanci Pelosi is the modern-day embodiment of the spirit of Jezebael, in my opinion. If you want to know what that means, look online at one of the many online bibles and look up the story of Jezebael (or Jezebel, etc. - depends on how it is spelled). God ultimately made an example of Jezebael in the end, and it is a story well worth reading for those who are illiterate in Biblical stories.

 

[justin 561]

since if the Jews had been armed prior to WWII, Hitler's minions would have had a fight on their hands when trying to round them up.

I highly doubt this, They had no clue that there would be over 6 million of them rounded up and killed. Maybe you would get small bands of groups that take up arms, but I highly doubt the majority would. You must take account that in the death toll, women and children were among. Later in the years a lot more groups may have popped up to fight Hitlers vast, technologically advanced, battle hardened, and well trained troops. As the French Resistance did. They had no idea that they would be rounded up and murdered in the early years.

 

[LWGN]

Hubby and I are introducing an entire Jewish family - Mom, Dad and 13-y.o. girl - to RKBA,guns, and shooting. We have a date to take them to the range shortly. It's been a long, slow process, but I think we will have new shooting buddes really soon. We're going to start with the .22 and work up.

The most important thing is that they now understand why guns and gun rights are important, and are working to spread that understanding even before they are familiar with handling actual fiearms. Even if they don't become shooters, I thnk they will be gun rights activists.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

They didn't have the will to be armed or defend themselves to begin with. They turned in their weapons. Would it have done any good if the Americans had parachuted thousands of M3's into occupied Europe, if the people did not have the will to use them, as they showed they had not? The same will happen in the U.S. The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was a bitter foretaste.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[yokel]

By 1943, much heavier armament than submachine guns was required. Jewish resistance forces would be paper tigers in the face of the Reich's overwhelming superiority in experience and firepower.

Katrina was an unfortunate consequence of the moribund well regulated militia in possession of a truly formidable arsenal.

 

[borntwice]

Everyone who is saying that Hitler's forces were formidable; consider this; if the general population had been armed with both rifles and handguns, I doubt that it would have been easy for Hitler to attempt to exterminate the Jews.

I doubt that the Nazi's were THAT well trained, and I think that any Jew with decent firearms training could have taken out an SS officer or two, easily. Let's not glorify the Third Reich.

 

[Nolo]

Jews are some of the most stubborn people on the planet. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes this is bad. Much of the irrational fear of firearms comes from images, emblazoned into their minds forever, of Nazis using firearms to kill their families. Because the good citizens had already been stripped of firearms, you only saw them at that time as a tool of evil men. Unfortunately, this association remains today. It is very difficult to dislodge associations that are branded into the mind by deep emotional scars.

You are certainly largely right. However, I think there are some really effective strategies to use against this stubbornness.
The Uzi may be an important tool in this arsenal.
And I don't mean for its rate of fire or accuracy.
Why did a Jew invent the Uzi? Why would a Jew improve on the very type of firearm that was used to threaten and kill thousands upon thousands of his kin?
Methinks Mr. Gail was not a traitor.
These are questions to ask of your brethren.

 

[yokel]

Everyone who is saying that Hitler's forces were formidable; consider this; if the general population had been armed with both rifles and handguns, I doubt that it would have been easy for Hitler to attempt to exterminate the Jews.

I doubt that the Nazi's were THAT well trained, and I think that any Jew with decent firearms training could have taken out an SS officer or two, easily. Let's not glorify the Third Reich.

Your scenario may have been plausible in 1938.

The reality of the matter is that the Jews had no answer to the Stuka bomber, Tiger tank, and the 88 mm gun.

 

[Golden Hound]

Hah...one of my favorite topics of discussion.

I'm a Jew, one hundred percent - Russian, Polish, Belorussian, and Greek. I was raised with images of the Holocaust and I grew up my whole life as a kid thinking, "why do they only teach us about all the Jews who got killed in school? Why are the Jews so weak? Why do they always get conquered?" I told my dad about this, and he gave me a book called Fighting Back, which was about the Jewish Partisans who fought the Nazis in Poland. He told me that my mom's side of the family, all the way back in World War II, were part of the Partisans. I was probably about 11 years old when I read this, and it made a huge impact on me. From that point on, I knew that it was my duty, as a Jew, to be ready to fight against anti-Semites.

It was only later, when I got older and smarter, that I realized that the biggest battle today is not against anti-Semites, but against other Jews! The Jews in America are overwhelmingly anti-gun. All the major Jewish advocacy groups - the UJA, the American Jewish Congress, and all the others (and there are lots of others) are against the Second Amendment. Someone before suggested that the Jews are against guns because they're used to them being used against them. This is partially true, but I think the bigger issue is that Jews in America are really, really closely tied with the Democratic Party, and they have been for a very long time, ever since they immigrated here and joined the Labor Unions. The Unions were like a second religion to most Jewish immigrants, and their children and grandchildren - and with that, came the Democrats. And the Democrats, unfortunately, are anti-gun. And I think that most Jews who are anti-gun, are really just basically anti-gun because it's the Democratic position and they feel like they have to go along with the party line, even if they don't really know what it means.

Chuck Schumer. Dianne Feinstein. Two rabid anti-gun Jews. There are more. It seems like every time I read about some anti-gun politician, his name is Goldstein or Rosenberg. It makes my skin crawl. But mostly, it makes me want to get active and convince other Jews to try to see the light - which I do, every chance I get.

Fortunately, not all Jews are against our right to bear arms. Bruce Stern, for one. That's right, the guy who owned this:



Unfortunately, he passed away. But there will be others like him.

All Jews need to be armed. It's one of those facts that is so blatantly obvious, and yet so many people fail to see it. It's a shame. We all need to do our part to change it.

 

[Mak Maven]

Another MOT.
Been gunnie since I understood what it means to be a Jew in the world.
(Age 18) now age 64
My s. o. an ardent lib Democrat finally "got it" and now has her very own .22 revolver that she shoots when we go to the range.
When I got my CCW in Florida she knew it was the right thing for me to do.
Although she does not carry, she realizes why I do.

Now talking with HER lib Democrat parents ages 93, 88, respectively they think it's nuts the way I feel about weapons, little do they know I carry.

If they knew their nice Jewish daughter has her very own pistol it would send shivers down their spine.
I just can't understand why a perseucuted faith in past, the Jews in the US where we have 2A. would be so negative, you'd think they would have learned from the holocaust.

The Israeli 's get it!

By the way, I carry for my own protection and my loved ones against the criminal element.
I don't expect an anti Jewish uprising any time soon in the USA


David

 

[karandom]

They didn't have the will to be armed or defend themselves to begin with. They turned in their weapons. Would it have done any good if the Americans had parachuted thousands of M3's into occupied Europe, if the people did not have the will to use them, as they showed they had not? The same will happen in the U.S. The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was a bitter foretaste.

There are many examples of Jews rising up to the Nazis in Partisan groups as well as the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. The Jews that fought back were so tenacious the Nazis had to burn down the Ghetto to finally get rid of them. Please don't make assumptions about things you are not familiar with.



I also realize that small arms would have a difficult time stopping something like an army, but if someone ever forcibly attempted to remove me from my home based on my Jewish faith I certainly wouldn't go quietly.

 

[wuluf]

Yet another MOT here

First generation American, child of Holocaust survivors. I have a synagogue as a client and i was speaking to the administrator about hobbies. I mentioned that i collect and shoot, she asks why would a Jew want guns? I laughed and said BECAUSE I'm a Jew! She didn't understand, some folks never will.

That same synagogue was firebombed 9 years prior.

 

[Rembrandt]

I have always been impressed at how the nation of Israel mandates it's citizens be armed and requires some form of military service......refreshing to see a nation learn from the lessons of WWII. Wish we could say the same for law makers in this country.

 

[buck00]

Everyone who is saying that Hitler's forces were formidable; consider this; if the general population had been armed with both rifles and handguns, I doubt that it would have been easy for Hitler to attempt to exterminate the Jews.

I doubt that the Nazi's were THAT well trained, and I think that any Jew with decent firearms training could have taken out an SS officer or two, easily.

I'd be careful of the theme that some small arms would have helped German Jews stop the Holocaust. It is easy in hindsight to speculate if Jews were fighting tooth and nail from the mid 30's on, it would have changed something. However, we have the luxury of knowing the end result, they didn't- which is why they cooperated.

My point is- regardless of how many arms you supplied Jews with back in 1938, it is moot as the sense of urgency wouldn't have been there (unless we're playing the what-if of we "go back in time and warn everyone.") The unity, the organization, and fighting spirit wouldn't have been there.

* However, fast forward to the Arab-Israeli War of 1948 (and the other wars)- how do you make sense of out-numbered Jews defeating the larger forces? With the full knowledge of the Nazi Holocaust (and what happens when you submit), the Jews defeated overwhelming odds.

It is shame that in the 60's some "new Jews" in Israel looked down on "ghetto Jews" (survivors) for their perceived weakness (especially after the 1967 victory). The Jews of 1967 greatly benefted from the lessons of 1938-1945 that the "ghetto Jews" had paid such a high price for.

 

[Golden Hound]

First generation American, child of Holocaust survivors. I have a synagogue as a client and i was speaking to the administrator about hobbies. I mentioned that i collect and shoot, she asks why would a Jew want guns? I laughed and said BECAUSE I'm a Jew! She didn't understand, some folks never will.

Some people have the mistaken impression that Judaism is supposed to equal pacifism. This couldn't be further from the truth. The Torah (Old Testament) is anything but a pacifist book. You should have asked her how she feels about Israel?

 

[Johnnybgood]

Re: Nancy Pelosi and her ilk. I agree that today it is not racism. It is Elitism. If you are not one of the rich and powerful your vote/voice means nothing to them.

 

[george29]

Jews are some of the most stubborn people on the planet. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes this is bad. Much of the irrational fear of firearms comes from images, emblazoned into their minds forever, of Nazis using firearms to kill their families. Because the good citizens had already been stripped of firearms, you only saw them at that time as a tool of evil men. Unfortunately, this association remains today. It is very difficult to dislodge associations that are branded into the mind by deep emotional scars.

Regardless, I'm working on it...

Just get Schumer and Feinstein to shut their yaps and I will be greatful.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Sans Authoritas wrote:

They didn't have the will to be armed or defend themselves to begin with. They turned in their weapons. Would it have done any good if the Americans had parachuted thousands of M3's into occupied Europe, if the people did not have the will to use them, as they showed they had not? The same will happen in the U.S. The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was a bitter foretaste.

karandom wrote:

There are many examples of Jews rising up to the Nazis in Partisan groups as well as the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. The Jews that fought back were so tenacious the Nazis had to burn down the Ghetto to finally get rid of them. Please don't make assumptions about things you are not familiar with.

I wasn't even speaking only about the Jews. I'm talking about humanity: firearms are useless without enough people willing to use them. I'm very familiar with the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, as well as the destruction of Treblinka. That does not change the fact that they were very isolated incidents, and that the majority of people were apathetic, or had a victim mentality that they refused to shake off.

There was not much resistance to the Germans, and it wasn't an absence of firearms that caused it. That was my point. Please don't put words in my mouth.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[gallo]

I often hear as an argument against anti-gunners that their position in regulating arms is a slippery slope followed by the example, "if only Jews had not been disarmed...."

Don't take me for anti in disguise, but often I like to play devil's advocate to provoke thought.

Are guns really all it takes to face a tyrannical government? What about organization and decisiveness? When is it the right time to up rise in arms? Gestapo knock on door and ask to speak to man of the house at the station. The man of the house never return, the family is later shipped to camp. National Guards knock on door and politely asks hand over your guns and offer to evacuate you to the dome? See my point? More than guns, people need organization and the information to act at the right time. These examples are fictional, only meant to illustrate my point.

 

[Leanwolf]

RAYSTONN - "Jews are some of the most stubborn people on the planet. Sometimes this is good. Sometimes this is bad. "

Raystonn, a little anectdote.

I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years. One of my best friends and long time hunting partners was a Jew. He had a gun collection even more extensive than mine, which was considerable. He told me that he and his wife and two sons had great difficulties finding a Temple they liked because of this subject of which you posted.

Then, one Friday evening, they went to a Temple in the west San Fernando Valley they'd heard about. My friend said they arrived early and pulled into the near-empty parking lot in front of the Temple. In the parking space next to the front door was a sign that read "Reserved For Rabbi."

In the parking space was a Ford Bronco. In the rear window were two decals. One read "Life Member, National Rifle Association." The other decal read "Life Member, California Rifle & Pistol Association."

My friend turned to his wife and said, "I think we've found a home." And they had.

FWIW.

L.W.

 

[george29]

"Reserved For Rabbi." "Life Member, National Rifle Association."

http://www.gunownersalliance.com/AskTheRabbi.htm

 

[yokel]

Are guns really all it takes to face a tyrannical government? What about organization and decisiveness?

What it takes is a highly trained and motivated, disciplined and well-organized force adorned with armament that far surpasses the typical gun shop fare.

When is it the right time to up rise in arms?

Armed uprising is definitely not the sport of a generation of video-game junkies and couch potatoes as well as a nannying, mollycoddled, politically correct culture.

My sense is that for most folks it would have to involve being exhausted, starving, in desparate straits, miserable, and literally under siege.

 

[.cheese.]

Raystonn - as a fellow Jew, I couldn't agree more.

 

[Golden Hound]

I think even if the Jews in Germany all had guns or were allowed to have them, they still probably would have been killed because the Jews of Germany had been conditioned for so long to rely on their government for everything and to always trust the government no matter what happened. They thought that Germany was the most progressive, enlightened place on earth, before Hitler took over. They never really had a chance.

Jews in other places, like small villages in Eastern Europe, did not have this kind of attitude towards their government, and those were the people who formed partisan groups and revolted.