New Arsenal AK Shoot 14" to Left @ 100 yds - Need Advice

[rocketfish]

I finally got my new Arsenal milled receiver SAM-7R to the range today. Everything's great, except it was shooting to the left of the line of sight by 3.5 inches at 25 yards which equates to 14 inches left at 100 yards. So it would appear that my front sight is canted slightly to the right. Given a 15 inch distance from rear sight to front sight, I estimate that the front sight would need to be drifted to the left by about 0.06 inches to get the groups on center. It looks like that if I adjusted the front sight as far as it would go (until the front sight pin touched the side of the hole in the sight base) I might get it sighted in and shooting to point of aim. This seems a bit excessive and I thinks this more adjustment than was intended for the front sight.

Any advice? Should I send the sucker back to Arsenal? How hard is it to adjust the front sight base to eliminate the cant? I've heard of this before and I think people have been able to remedy it themselves.

 

[chris in va]

Not sure what the problem is. Adjust the front sight post over...

My friend has an Arsenal and had to adjust his. My Saiga was the same way. It won't take much and certainly won't touch the sight hood.

BTW those laser boresighters work really well for getting things on paper, if not 10 ring.

 

[rocketfish]

Thanks but no, I measured it and I would have to drift the sight post all the way until it touched the side of the hole to have a chance.

 

[Soap]

Send it back to Arsenal ASAP.

 

[grimjaw]

If you don't trust your gunsmithing ability enough to adjust the front sight block yourself, send it back.

jm

 

[alucard0822]

sending mine back to the factory was not an option for me, so I took matters into my own hands, If you can send it back for repair, then that would be easiest

I ran into the same problem with my yugo M70, but it was canted to the left. I pushed the sight all the way to get it about 1/2" to the right at 50yds, i then lined up a protractor set infront of the muzzle with the pin just to the left of 90 degrees and marked the vertical center barrel in front of the sight base. I then marked the center of the sight, then used a pin punch to drive the two pins out of the sight base, pressed the sight off with a gear puller, using a peice of 44mag brass over the screw end to prevent damage to the muzzle. I widened the pin notches to the right with a file, and then lined the sight up, and tapped it into place with a small peice of 1/2" PVC pipe and a mallet, once the notches in the barrel and pin holes lined up, I put a drop of red lock-tite in each hole, and tapped the pins back in. I put a small drop of flat black paint on the ends of the pins so it still looks brand new. The first round I fired at 100yds hit about 1" to the left with the sight centered, I drifted the sight over a hair, and now 500 rounds later it still groups to POA.

 

[MechAg94]

Have you tried moving the front sight? You sort of have to be able to do that to get it zeroed. TAPCO sells a decent tool to make it easier. Otherwise, a small hammer will do it. Just use a towel or something to keep it from getting scratched. Not very exact though.

Maybe it is just me but I would move it over as far as I could until to see how much adjustment I needed. How did you measure that you couldn't adjust far enough? Did you line up the rear sight with the guard on one side?

 

[MAX100]

Your options are:

Do it like alucard0822 did his, which is the right way.

Replace the rear sight with a windage adjustable sight

Mount a red dot sight because AK sights suck.

Send it back for a fix.

I would go with a red dot sight or a windage adjustable rear sight

Here is the link for the Windage adjustable rear sight. You will find more if you search the web.

http://www.globaltrades.com/ak_sights.html


GC

 

[Baron357]

A little adjusment goes a long way adjust your front sight first! Then go from there.

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

Untill you have drifted the sight all the way over there is no way to say for sure. Especially when you have not even tried drifting the front sight at all. first of all drift the front sight in the propper direction and see where you are after that. Anything else is just speculation.

 

[Avenger29]

I am just curious why Arsenal would let something like that pass inspection- they are supposed to be up there among the top of high-dollar AKs...

 

[aka108]

You paid a good deal for the Arsenal. Think I would contact the Company. They should make it right for you especially since quality is one of the things they preach loudest about. If you do contact them, post their response since I think quite a few here would be interested in the end result.

 

[MAX100]

It's kind of funny. Century Arms WASR 10 that had that problem in the past and still get's slammed by many proud Arsenal AK owners. I have heard of others who have had problems with canted Arsenal front sights.

No question about it, the Arsenal AK's are excellent but it shows all firearms manufacture have their quality control issues.

All it takes is one bad employee to screw things up or a good company going through financial problems.

GC

 

[goon]

I'd try adjusting it before I got too worried. It might not be perfectly centered in in the FSB but it shouldn't be too far off when zeroed.
I know it seems like it won't adjust far enough and maybe it won't, but maybe it will too.

And if that doesn't work, I'd make them fix it or ask for a refund. I wouldn't make any attempt to fix it myself.
I am tired of poor QC with guns to the point where I really worry about buying anything new anymore. It only takes 5 more minutes to do it right and unlike most of us, they have all the tools and skills right there.

My last AK, a Lancaster, came from the factory with a messed up chamber. They fixed that but it still didn't eject like it should have (about 1 in 5 would just sort of "fall" out of the rifle - no force behind them). I sent it back and hassled them and my FFL until I got a full refund out of it.
I am not an employee and I don't get paid to use my ammo to do QC for them.

On the upside though, Lancaster's customer service does seem to be pretty good.

 

[MechAg94]

I think you should adjust it first simply to see how bad it is. Then you have something concrete to tell Arsenal.

I agree that it is bad. I have Yugo SKS that I had to adjust over quite a bit. Having the front post too close to one of the wing posts is very distracting when shooting.

 

[jpwilly]

My Yugo front sight was the same way...Oh well nothing a dead blow hammer wouldn't fix! That's Eastern Bloc Gunsmithing!

 

[petej]

I have the exact same AK and had the exact same problem, I ended up having to push front sight one side to the extreme but now it works like a champ. I have seen other posts on the milled Arsenal AKs that also shoot way left, it is always left.

Anyways, I was able to fix mine no problems with adjusting the front post.

 

[MAX100]

You could send it back for a fix but you will spend more money and have to wait a long time for it. It may not be right when you get it back, if it is, you will still have a rear sight that is not windage adj. Buy a windage adj rear sight for around $50 and be done with it. You may come out cheaper, you will not have to wait and you will get an excellent windage adj. rear sight out of the deal.



GC

 

[AK103K]

I had an early Arsenal/Global Trades SSR-85C. It too had the same problem. The front post wound up far to one side when zeroed, which I cant stand. I replaced the rear sight with a RPK windage adjustable sight and the problem was solved. With the front post centered, it only took a couple of clicks of the rear sight to get it zeroed, and you didnt even notice the rear was slightly off.

If your sights are canted, you dont have to guess, you'll see it, even if they are slightly canted. My 85C's sights were straight. Canted sights are not necessarily a problem either. I have an early SAR1 with sights that have a little cant. It will shoot about 3-6" at 200 yards, depending on ammo and position. It also shoots a lot better than my 85C ever did.

Personally, I think the best thing going for the AK is the Ultimak rail mount and an Aimpoint on it. Nothing is easier or faster to shoot with, and you can still use your iron sights if you need too.

The best sight tool is made by B Square. It easily moves the toughest front sight and can be left on the gun while you adjust the windage. You do need to remove it for the vertical adjustment.

 

[Bart Noir]

Adding the Aimpoint (with mount) will almost double the value of the Arsenal AK, won't it?

Maybe not the most cost effective way to go. OTOH, it is about the only way some of us can shoot one accurately, considering the sights on the AK.

Bart Noir

 

[AK103K]

The sights on the AK's are really not all that bad. I actually prefer them for fast, up close shooting. They will still allow you to easily make good hits on man sized targets out to 300 yards.

Yes, the Ultimak/Aimpoint combo is about $500 give or take. It may seem expensive at first blush, but it is a rugged combination and does work and holds up. The Aimpoints also have a battery life (one battery) from 10,000-80,000 hours, 24/7 use, depending on model.

 

[alucard0822]

I guess I should have stated some additional info reguarding my previous post. I was an auto mechanic for most of my life before my current consulting gig, and have a little more mechanical aptitude and confidence than the average bear. I also have a whole bunch of specialized tools, intended to repair vehicles that seem to work quite well for firearms. My sight was originally hitting about 18" to the right when centered, and even if I could have drifted the sight far enough, the cant was more than noticeable as the top of the pin was centered with about twice the light coming through on one side of it. I wanted to keep the plain jane original sights, and center the night sights I painted with easy to see white dots (just like 3 dot sights on a pistol). I bought my AK for a cheap plinker to fire cheap ammo when I didn't feel like reloading, and being the oddball yugo it is, there are few tacticool parts made for it. IMO the AK is a marvel of simplicity and utility, and I wanted to stay with it in it's original form, no lights, sights or lasers hanging off of it. I think a 14 MOA adjustment should be in the realm of a sight pushers ability, and certainly in the realm of an adjustable rear's range. But if you want the non adjustable flip up night sights to hit POA(not sure if you have them, or if they are like the yugos), to have a fairly centered looking sight hood, or if the front sight pin looks canted, then sending it back, centering the sight by yourself, or paying a local gunsmith is the only way.


JPwillys, I sure wish a solid smack with the deadblow would have done it, but the retaining pins were TIGHT, and the sight itself was tight enough that I was woried about bending it, or twisting it in the reciever or gas block, both of which were perfectly straight, so hence the careful aligning, and use of a press.

 

[Kurt_D]

According to Arsenal's manual 1mm movement of the front sight left/right = 10 1/4in at 100m and 1 full turn = 8in up/down

You have a lot of adjustment room there. Yes, Arsenal's "boresighting" isn't great.

 

[rocketfish]

First of all, thanks for all the helpful replies. I knew this forum would not let me down.

OK, then, deep breath, here we go:

Yes, the information in the Arsenal manual appears to be inline with my estimate for movement of the front sight. My rifle appears to be 14" off at 100 yards (that's 15.5" at 100 meters) so I would need to drift 0.06" or 1.5 mm. Sure, that doesn't seem like much but that's about all the room there is until the threads of the front sight post touch. That would also make the front sight so that it was not well centered within the "wings" of the sight hood. Also, the drum on the side of the base (that part you push on with the tool) would be recessed inside the side of the sight base a little. I haven't adjusted the front sight (yet) and I'm making these estimates with a set of calipers set to 0.06" and comparing it against the various peices on a well lit table. If the front sight is canted right it is ever so slight and I can't say for sure.

I do have a front sight tool - I needed it for my Yugo SKS. My SKS was off center too but I don't remember it being more than 8-10" off at 100 yards and the sight post is still pretty well centered.

I did call up Arsenal today to ask about it and find out what they consider the limits of what is an acceptable amount of adjustment in the front sight. I mean surely there is a limit (i.e. X inches at 100 yards). I spoke with a friendly gent (he had what I'm pretty sure was a Bulgarian accent). He said simply that if the rifle can be brought on center by adjusting the front sight, then the rifle is considered within tolerance, however if I sent it in they would correct it under warranty because some people like their front post to be centered. He told me they do not pay shipping (to get the rifle to them).

So I haven't really decided, but I'm pretty sure sure I'm not gonna be happy with a front post that's way to the left. It's such a pain to ship guns back and have to wait - I have to get a box (tossed the original) and everything and then worry about UPS breaking it or stealing it. I'm thinking the windage adjustable rear sight might be the way to go here.

 

[goon]

It's BS that they shipped a defective rifle and now you are stuck with it. Once again, we are customers, not employees.
We do not get paid to do QC on their messed up products.
This whole thing just really irritates me and it is the reason that from now on I am looking at probably only buying used guns.