New assault on open carry

[JRH6856]

And yes, in the rare case where you are threatened while (assumedly) spending a small part of the school day on school premises, you can concealed carry.

You don't pay attention well, do you? :banghead: This thread is about schools in Michigan. And
In Michigan, it is a felony for anyone except LEO to carry concealed in a school. Only OPEN CARRY is legal in a school for Michigan CPL holders.

 

[Palehorseman]

A bright spot is Texas Governor elect Abbot has said he will sign into law either the Open Carry or Constitutional carry legislation being debated. The Constitutional carry would be open or concealed carry without a permit requirement.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#...titutional+carry+law+presented+to+him&spell=1

 

[JRH6856]

A bright spot is Texas Governor elect Abbot has said he will sign into law either the Open Carry or Constitutional carry legislation being debated. The Constitutional carry would be open or concealed carry without a permit requirement.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#...titutional+carry+law+presented+to+him&spell=1

But hopefully the CHL would remain an option for reciprocity with other states and to comply with GFSZA.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

EDIT:

Deleted. Post 151 sums up my comment much more clearly.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

You don't pay attention well, do you? :banghead: This thread is about schools in Michigan. And
In Michigan, it is a felony for anyone except LEO to carry concealed in a school. Only OPEN CARRY is legal in a school for Michigan CPL holders.

Yep my error. And I acknowledge it.
So let me ask, who or what group has filed in the courts to overturn that restriction? And who or what group is lobbying to amend the school syllabus and teach the history of the 2A, of firearms in the U.S., the actual safety statistics of law abiding firearms owners in the U.S?
The reason I ask, and an earlier post acknowledged it well, is that the ultimate goal is about winning. Restoring the rights granted and interpreted in the 2A, and halting the continuous push of the anti-gun agenda.
If you think that OC brings you closer to that goal, then keep going. I for one would be willing to accept the low probabilities that focusing on the agenda above while restraining from using OC to ultimately scare and empower school and government officials will not be appreciably putting my safety in jeopardy. And it is a risk I would gladly take to win the debate.
As I read an earlier post, some think otherwise. That OC and occasionally forcing a school shutdown may highlight the inconsistency of the law, resulting in a positive outcome for those of us who advocate restoration of the rights granted by the 2A. But I really think that's a bad bet.
If it comes down to these last two issues, that is, whether OC in a school is a good bet or not, or whether other tactics should be used instead to provide a winning position for those pro to the 2A, that would be a healthy discussion.
B

 

[barnbwt]

"A cop is different because..."
Well there's your answer, JRH. Only cops have the need to carry on schools, and they can therefore do so discretely. The existing OC situation truly is nothing but a loophole that needs closing.

TCB

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Since you asked:

A cop is different because he or she has to run to the crisis, while you get to run away. Whether you are shooting your way out of it or not.

And schools are different because they are loaded with young and very young people who are not yet ready or prepared to take care of themselves, and implicitly know and expect others to do so for them. And, as you state, you are not OC'ing to protect them. You are carrying to protect yourself.

And yes, in the rare case where you are threatened while (assumedly) spending a small part of the school day on school premises, you can concealed carry.

Since you stated this:

The subject of cops carrying guns vs private citizens carrying guns is not the subject of the OP.

The subject under discussion is the ability of people to legally exercise their RKBA in Michigan public schools under current law.

Neither the police, nor the reasons for carrying a firearm, are under discussion here.

 

[barnbwt]

"So let me ask, who or what group has filed in the courts to overturn that restriction?"
Didn't someone(s) already mention a narrowly lost bid to expand the statute for this exact situation?

http://michigan.concealedcampus.org/
These guys might be working to remedy the situation. If there is any traction to enacting the reform, it's way more efficient to pursue it through the legislator than the courts. Michigan/schools would just find some way to circumvent the ruling, anyhow.

TCB

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So let me ask, who or what group has filed in the courts to overturn that restriction? And who or what group is lobbying to amend the school syllabus and teach the history of the 2A, of firearms in the U.S., the actual safety statistics of law abiding firearms owners in the U.S?
The reason I ask, and an earlier post acknowledged it well, is that the ultimate goal is about winning. Restoring the rights granted and interpreted in the 2A, and halting the continuous push of the anti-gun agenda.

If you think that OC brings you closer to that goal, then keep going. I for one would be willing to accept the low probabilities that focusing on the agenda above while restraining from using OC to ultimately scare and empower school and government officials will not be appreciably putting my safety in jeopardy. And it is a risk I would gladly take to win the debate.

And THIS is a good question. And I, not being a resident of Michigan, have not been following any of this closely enough to know the answer. Perhaps others here have some insight into this. Apparently an "enhanced concealed carry" was in the works that would have resolved this, but it got shot down.

Regardless, this does not change the fact that OC is currently the only option private citizens have if they wish to exercise their RKBA in Michigan public schools. For any reason, be it self-defense, defense of their family members, political statement, or whatever.

 

[smalls]

A cop is different because he or she has to run to the crisis, while you get to run away. Whether you are shooting your way out of it or not

False. An officer has no duty to run to the crisis. Their weapon is for the protection of themselves. As has been upheld by courts.

So nothing makes cops more special than me.

Oh, except they have a cool outfit and a badge.

 

[B!ngoFuelUSN]

False. An officer has no duty to run to the crisis. Their weapon is for the protection of themselves. As has been upheld by courts.

So nothing makes cops more special than me.

Oh, except they have a cool outfit and a badge.

No, not really. It may be so that their requirement to do so is protected. But for all of them I know, and from what I have observed, that is not what they do.
Ask most anyone who rushed up the WTC to aid others. Both fire and police.
(done for now; I'll go back to being an observer)
B

 

[tomrkba]

"A cop is different because..."
Well there's your answer, JRH. Only cops have the need to carry on schools, and they can therefore do so discretely. The existing OC situation truly is nothing but a loophole that needs closing.

You are wrong in the worst way. Unfortunately, you do not support the right to keep and bear arms; you support the privilege of such. The proper, constitutional remediation is to drop the ban on concealed carry in schools and leave the rest of it alone. People will prefer concealed carry due to social conditioning.

 

[USAF_Vet]

"A cop is different because..."
Well there's your answer, JRH. Only cops have the need to carry on schools, and they can therefore do so discretely. The existing OC situation truly is nothing but a loophole that needs closing.

TCB

There is no loophole. It is the LAW AS IT WAS WRITTEN!!! Unless you also believe that buying a gun at a guns how with no background check is also a loophole. Then I just don't know what to tell you other than put down the kool-aid.

There is no loophole. There is what is legal, per the law, and what is illegal, also per the law. If it was an oversight, it would have been closed over a dozen years ago. The fact that it wasn't must mean something.

 

[JRH6856]

Don't worry USAF Vet. I recognize barnbwt's sarcasm.

Of course there is no loophole here. Just as there is no gunshow loophole. That hasn't stopped the antis from trying to close them.

 

[george burns]

Let me ask a question that just occurred to me, in the states which allow only open carry, what about those who carry a backup piece or even 2. Do they all need to be displayed if one is on the hip? Because it would be rather difficult to open carry 3 guns. Just a thought.

 

[JRH6856]

Let me ask a question that just occurred to me, in the states which allow only open carry, what about those who carry a backup piece or even 2. Do they all need to be displayed if one is on the hip? Because it would be rather difficult to open carry 3 guns. Just a thought.

Open carry is exactly that. No matter how many guns are involved.