new California Gold rush

[-aK-]

If your in CA and are not aware you should check this out.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=81
Legal California .223 self loading rifle discussion - Calguns.net

There has been a mad rush to purchase CA legal AR-15 unlisted lower receivers.

Basically a 5 year old court decision Harrot vs... says that the state can not be ambigous and say "ar and ak series" rifles are banned. That they must list them by specific manufacturer and model. There are many companies out there making AR-15 mil spec lowers that are not on the list.

As long as you don't add a pistol grip, flash hider, or folding stock to the detachable mag lower it is perfectly legal.
Likewise if you fix a ten round mag (tool needed) then you can add the pistol grip.



I'm currently also looking for a source on some VEPR's if anyone can help me out.

 

[crazed_ss]

Nerfed guns suck.
Having to top-load an AR-15 or FAL is ultra-gay.

Im just gonna save up for a M1A or cheap out and get a SU-16CA.

 

[TexasRifleman]

As long as you don't add a pistol grip, flash hider, or folding stock to the detachable mag lower it is perfectly legal.
Likewise if you fix a ten round mag (tool needed) then you can add the pistol grip.

So why bother? How do you shoot an AR without a pistol grip?

Why have an AR lower without detachable mags?

 

[femoralis]

People are buying the bare recievers, because they are not banned as assault weapons, as they are not on the list, and the reciever itself has no evil features.

If CA adds those brands to the banned list, then the people are grandfathered in, and can add all the evil features and be able to register their own AR-15s.

They anticipate these may be added to the evil list at a later time.

 

[crazed_ss]

I dont think the CA DOJ is gonna add them.

The way I see it.. This isnt a political issue.
The CA gov't knows that the vast majority of legal gun owners obey the law.
If they leave the off-list recivers as-is, then CA residents will be forced to have lame top-loading AR-15's. The DOJ isnt stupid.. they know that a top-loading AR-15 isnt any worse than a SKS when it comes to posing a threat to the community.

If they declare these off-list lowers as "Assault Weapons", they will basically give a whole bunch of people a blank check to build a legal "Assault Weapon" .. I think that's the last thing they want to do.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

While I would like an AR, I'm not getting one while I'm in California. No desire for a fixed magazine top loader. I own a Garand already...

On the plus side, lots of folks are selling off pistols and other toys to finance their builds and I've scored a few nice deals over the last 8 weeks.

 

[kage genin]

Even with the risk of the CA DOJ not adding these 'unlisted' lowers to the Assault Weapons list, thereby leaving buyers of these receivers with neutered fixed-mag break-open-to-load ARs, a lot of CA buyers of the lowers are buying them still because when fitted with certain 10-round fixed mag kits, they are somewhat easily convertable into regular detachable-magazine ARs once you've crossed state lines out of CA.

This is nice if you're off to take a class at some training school or on a hunting trip or whatever. Once you've finished your class/hunt and return to CA, re-affix the 10-round fixed-mag kit, and your gun is CA-legal again. And if the CA DOJ does someday add the lowers to the AW list, they must give you 90 days (as per their own law) to register it as a legal assault weapon, at which point you can put whatever evil features you want on it. Even *gasp* flash hiders!! (fellow Californians know the significance of that).

I think a lot of the folks buying the lowers are leaving them stripped and sitting, waiting to see if CA will update the AW list so they can register them as AWs and build up un-neutered ARs.

Yeah, you shooters in free states laugh all you want. I have to admit looking back at my own description of CA laws, it is pretty silly. Somebody at Calguns likened folks buying 10+ lowers to somebody who just got out of prison where he had no female companionship for the past 20 years

If only I were at home in CA right now, I'd be jumping on these lowers too. Just in case the CA government *is* dumb enough to add these lowers to the "AW" list. At <$100 for a lower, could it really hurt to buy at least one?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Yeah, you shooters in free states laugh all you want. I have to admit looking back at my own description of CA laws, it is pretty silly.

Believe me brother, we're not laughing. It pains me to see what's going on out West.

But for folks that have decided to live there anyway, panic buying of something they won't likely to be able to use confuses me that's all.

 

[ArmedBear]

But for folks that have decided to live there anyway, panic buying of something they won't likely to be able to use confuses me that's all.

That's not how it works.

But don't worry about it if you don't have to.

 

[TexasRifleman]

That's not how it works.

But don't worry about it if you don't have to.

Well, please explain it to me.

From what I understand, and that may not be right concerning California law, you can own these receivers that are not on the ban list.

But, you can't assemble them as they were designed. You have to have a fixed magazine. From what I've read, that is more involved than just some temporary blocking that's easily reversible is it not?

The idea that you can pop something in and out when you leave and enter the state sounds good, but I thought it had to be some kind of permanant modification?

So if you buy these receivers, what can you do with them in California?

I'm not picking on California, I am trying to understand what this is about.

 

[R.H. Lee]

blech. Who needs it? I've already got an SKS and a Garand. Sure, I'd love to have an AR, but not one of these wannabes.

 

[Sactown]

But, you can't assemble them as they were designed. You have to have a fixed magazine. From what I've read, that is more involved than just some temporary blocking that's easily reversible is it not?

You need this piece.

 

[Mute]

Read the info again. The possibility exist that buyers of these lowers might be able to eventually assemble them into non-neutered ARs. Whether that happens or not is speculation, no doubt. However, for those who weren't old enough or for whatever reason could not legally get an AR before 2000, this is a calculated gamble that could payoff, and current activities within DOJ suggest that they might be on the winning side.

At worst, DOJ does not add these to the list. At that time you can still build a neutered AR or you can sell your lower. If you didn't overpay, at worst, you'll be out the DROS fees. Whatever you choose to do, it's a way for some Kalifornians to legally say to the DOJ and Kali-policritters, "up yours!"

 

[TexasRifleman]

Whatever you choose to do, it's a way for some Kalifornians to legally say to the DOJ and Kali-policritters, "up yours!"

Well, if it does nothing but that then it's a good thing regardless, I was just trying to understand all the legal wrangling going on about the whole deal.

 

[El Rojo]

I was one of the first FFLs in the state to sell these things and I have talked to the DOJ at length about this. They will be added to the list. For some dumb reason, the AG wants to "close this loophole", so they are going to do it. They have been publicaly stating they will add the lowers to the list in written responses and over the phone. We have seen internal memos that talk about it. The only problem is the DOJ is a big, slow bureaucracy. They don't just do things over night. So they say, "We will do it in two weeks." Two weeks later they say 2-4 weeks, then they say 3 weeks. They are trying to get as many lowers on the list as possible for this first round. Then only a few brands will be left to import while they work on legislation to fix it for good. These guys don't bluff. If they say they are going to add them to the list, they will do it. Plus the field agent I have been talking to has been absoluetely swamped and I know it isn't doing his normal work load because he is stressed. They want him to close this thing up and do it soon. The problem is our soon is tomorrow and their soon is two months.

If you are interested and want a lower, these guys usually have them in stock. www.coldwarshooters.com. If you have a lower and want parts, including the fixed mag kits, see these guys www.tenpercentfirearms.com/uppers.htm. Yeah that is me. Little old El Rojo is now a FFL. That is why I mysteriously vanished from THR in early December. I have been so busy selling just about everything I rarely get over here anymore.

I have been living in a void of discussion boards. I am not the biggest calguns.net fan because a lot of those guys don't like the High Road (even though it has been good) or they are elitist jerks and I don't like coming back here because I am in black rifle mode and then I have to listen to out of staters pretend like they know what is going on out here. I just can't win.

And to answer the question "why?", I think a vast majority of guys want these stripped lowers just because they can. For example, I just realized I can register my FAB-10 as a .50 BMG. I probably will spend the $25 to do so. Why? I could care less about .50 BMG nor will I ever probably buy an upper for it as it is so darn expensive. However, at least I will have the option and screw California for trying to tell me I can't. That has been the attitude of a lot of guys who buy these things. They aren't rifle shooters, but screw California for trying to take that away from them. Well they already did.

That is why I bought a FAB-10 3 years ago. I thought, "Maybe someday we will get ARs back and I will already have the uppers lying about." What do you know!!! Here they are again. That worked out well.

If you ever wanted an AR, this is the time to get one. I think some nasty legislation will come out of this and according to my DOJ source the M1A and the M1 Carbine might be the next victims as a sort of retaliation for us getting this one by them.

 

[Sgt Stevo]

Victory is in the mind of the beholder

I got an upper the other day. And even if I could only own the upper, not even put it together, and it still pissed off the anti-gun crowd. I would buy two.

Because of my spouses career, I can not leave the PRK. And I hate being told I can not own this or that, because some idiot is scared of whatever it is...

I have spent most of my adult life in the Service of this Nation. So I am insulted by the liberal mental midgets at every turn.

By buying this lower. Just once, I feel sorta like I live in a free country. And I smile at the thought of anti-gunners sweating all the evil Ar -15 types , that are being bought.

I hope it causes great pain to those that oppose us.

Be well THR stevo..............

 

[Crosshair]

I am trying to think how Oleg can make a pro-2A poster from this ruling?

 

[ArmedBear]

Well, please explain it to me.

From what I understand, and that may not be right concerning California law, you can own these receivers that are not on the ban list.

But, you can't assemble them as they were designed. You have to have a fixed magazine. From what I've read, that is more involved than just some temporary blocking that's easily reversible is it not?

The idea that you can pop something in and out when you leave and enter the state sounds good, but I thought it had to be some kind of permanant modification?

So if you buy these receivers, what can you do with them in California?

I'm not picking on California, I am trying to understand what this is about.

You can shoot them in California when you have the magazine locked in with a screw. You can swap the screw for a standard mag release if you leave the state, as is common here, since AZ has some good shooting areas.

If CA bans the things, then you're grandfathered in with an "assault weapon". If the Feds reinstates the Clinton ban in a few years, then you're grandfathered in. If CA doesn't ban the things, it's legal to have the gun with the screw in the receiver.

More than anything, it's an "up yours" to the state from a growing number of us. The more of these things are out there, the bigger their dilemma.

The fact remains, though, that the AR platform is very versatile. It's a worthwhile rifle, one way or another, as long as you aren't stuck with a riveted-in magazine that can't be cleaned easily.