Cal DOJ ambushes CA fixed-mag lower owners

[Creeping Incrementalism]

"You know what you doing!"
"All you lowers are belong to us".

Up until today, the Cal DOJ had told us that it was okay to buy/own an AR if the mag was 10-rounds and fixed, and by fixed, they meant it required tools to remove. So replacing the mag release with something like a nut you needed a wrench to remove was okay with a 10-round mag in the well. They also had been saying that they were going to ban all these rifles soon, thus allowing the owners a chance to register and keep them.

That was then, now the DOJ just put out a memo saying they will not update the assault weapon list, and, by the way, your rifles are now illegal and you are all felons if your mag well isn't welded shut at the bottom...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf

Law enforcement officials, firearm dealers and the public should be aware that semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are modified to be temporarily incapable of accepting detachable magazines, but can be restored to accommodate detachable magazines, are assault weapons if they have any of the features listed in §12276.1(a)(1). The Department intends to exercise its power pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5(i) to adopt regulations as “necessary or proper to carry out the purposes and intent” of California law to ban assault weapons in the state.

This is just a memo, so there's room to argue, but the DOJ's official position is that our new AR lowers are now illegal

But this doesn't affect me, as my lower was already sezied (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=182415)

You can read more about this at CalGuns.net, though new posts and threads are popping up faster than they can be read. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

 

[crazed_ss]

lol.. I knew something like this would happen. Hence the reason I didnt purchase one. I was really close though. Oh well.

SU-16 or M1A it is now. God, why do M1A's have to be so stupid expensive.

 

[AJAX22]

well lets hope they don't figure out that a guy with a pocketknife and some free time can mod one of the synthetic bushmasters in about half an hour. sealed magwell or not.

but then again it takes what? three hours with a jig and a 80%lower to fab one up from scratch?

they just can't seem to wrap there heads around the fact that they are only hurting those of us who want to live within the bounds of the law. by criminilizing the gun instead of the action, they create a class of criminals out of patriots and civic minded citizens who don't seek anything but life liberty and the pursuit of happienss, accompanied by the security that the 2nd ammendment offers to those ends.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Pretty disgusting. They basically write law with their anti-gun bigotry. If this isn't proof that the situation in Kalifornistan is unworkable, I don't know what is. I'd never live in a state like that. Better to live in a more progun state where your vote counts and is used to liberalize the RKBA, not abolish it.


Maybe someone will make a closed bottom AR-15 lower? Like a longer mag well but totally closed on the bottom and machined on the inside to work as an internal magazine. Would look smooth on the outside, anodized black like the rest of the lower. Would only be a temp fix as the elected nazi government in charge of California will probably ban anything that resembles an AR-15 at all.



On a side note: Guys, this is why we do not want the Democratic Party in power. A Hillary in office will use her executive orders powers to attack the RKBA in any capacity she can. Her AG will assault gun owners and businesses. The BATFE will be encouraged, funded, and empowered to go on greater offensives. All the leftists care about is guns, nothing else. The 1st thing they all do in power is grab the guns. Despite their anti-gun ramblings in public, they are EXTREMELY modest about how important gun control is to them. This is evident in their legislative and administrative priorities.

 

[AJAX22]

They do make closed bottom mag well AR's, the FAB 10 and the Bushmaster california ediiton polymer framed one that I can't remember the name of right now, its late I'm tired. but they are out there. just a bit pricey

 

[Pietro Beretta]

Yes the "Fab 10" is a closed lower, this is used on all the "California Legal ar16's" That I have seen. http://www.fabten.com/pictures.htm http://www.fabten.com/build_it.htm

I had the chance to buy one of the Fab10 AR15's for $800.00 from my local shop owner $50 dollars over the cost he put into it, However the money I had in hand was for my Colt 1911.... I couldnt get over having to take the gun apart to load it.... I think I would be better off with my SKS w/ Stripper clips then one of those AR-15's

 

[dmckean44]

I'm waiting for one of these:


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=30568

Take away the pistol grip and we have no problems. In the mean time I'll just shoot my SU-16.

 

[AJAX22]

oooo, where can I get one? I don't know of any FFL here in cali who will import a AR lower,

I'd love to buy one just to have one (for a rainy day),

I'm a student and cant drop the money on an AR all at once, but one piece at a time.... maby we'll see.

 

[K-Romulus]

Good thing CA has "reasonably protected public safety" by banning those evil, dangerous, mass-murdering AR-15's,

while still allowing the sale of those nice, safe, sporting SU-16's . . .

(Don't worry, MD is next to follow . . )

 

[billwiese]

it's just a memo for now...

I've written a quick analysis/rebuttal on Calguns:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=33614

The nice thing about this is that if they start tweaking the formal regulatory definition of detachable magazine referred to by PC 12276.1(a)(1) - and which we honor/comply with in the converse with fixed magazines - a formal redefinition will trigger assault weapons status and a mandatory registration period.

There is no provision in CA law for mandated surrender, modification, 'render safe' actions, etc. for lawfully owned, lawfully acquired firearms which become - thru no action on the owner's part - considered as assault weapons. IF something legal becomes an AW, a reg period _must_ open.

Such a redefinition would also have side effects on rifles like SKSes, turning them into illlegal SKSes with detachable mags (a banned assault weapon listed on Roberti-Roos list).

As for now, don't panic. It's just a memo. Nothing has changed, no formal regulations have been legally updated, etc.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Holy Buffer Tube, Batman!

Those stocks don't look like they leave enough room for the buffer tube--what the hell are those things? This reminds me of the new Kel-Tec AR pistol. It uses a convenstional piston and I don't recall seeing a buffer tube on it--are these related?

And Bill, I hope you are right, but the thing is, it appears pretty well established now that the DOJ will just make up the law as it goes along to suit what they would like SB23 to say, not what it actually does say. Sure, the DOJ is wrong, but we'll have to live in fear until some sacrificial lamb or poor sap gets busted.

 

[HankB]

On a side note: Guys, this is why we do not want the Democratic Party in power.

Right, this wouldn't happen if California had a Republican governor . . .

 

[waterhouse]

Well, it was a good run while it lasted.

Does this mean that there will be a flood of low priced stripped lowers hitting the free states soon?

 

[Gordon Fink]

Right, this wouldn’t happen if California had a Republican governor …

Actually, the Governor has no say in the matter.

I’m certainly not surprised that the AG is trying this. In fact, it’s exactly the kind of thing I expected.

~G. Fink

 

[30Cal]

It's a memo. I can write one up that says MG's are perfectly legal here in CA. It would hold as much water as the one the DOJ has posted.

It's the same as the memo that everyone got excited about in Feb--just a stick to wave around to intimidate people into not buying an AR lower.

My guess is that the DOJ doesn't want to foot the bill for processing 30,000 registrations. I don't expect anything of substance until after January when we get a new AG.

Ty

 

[MrTuffPaws]

Well, I was close to buying an AK "lower" too, but had a gut feeling that if they did not make them out right illegal, then the registration fee would be something like $5000 to limit the numbers to the bare minimum.

I'll have to live with my death machine SKS until I can find an SU16 CA that does not cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Well, I was close to buying an AK "lower" too, but had a gut feeling that if they did not make them out right illegal

Dude, this doesn't affect AKs at all, since the work-around isn't a fixed mag, but rather a conventional (non pistol-grip) stock, and the DOJ just said they aren't going to add anything to the list.

 

[Kevlarman]

and the DOJ just said they aren't going to add anything to the list.

Back in December they also said that they would add them to the list.

The DOJ flip flops faster than a fish out of a frying pan. It's just a memo, and doesn't have any legal standing.. yet.

This is far from over.

 

[Langenator]

So there's the Bushmaster and FAB10 fixed mag lowers that are legal in CA, but you have to shotgun the rifle to load them.

Anyone thought of making an open-top upper with a stripper clip guide to use with these lowers?

 

[LAR-15]

Quote:
On a side note: Guys, this is why we do not want the Democratic Party in power.

Right, this wouldn't happen if California had a Republican governor . . .

Uhh Governor has no say.

AG Lockyer does and he is a Democrat!

 

[crazed_ss]

Anyone thought of making an open-top upper with a stripper clip guide to use with these lowers?

I had thought about that too.. We have Cali Legal FALs here with the top cut out. The thing is, people in Cali dont want gimped rifles.. We want full-on AR-15's with detachable mags and pistol grips.

I didnt think the DOJ would list the lowers as AW's because if they did that, they would have given thousands of people a blank check to build a real AR-15. That would be absolutely the last thing they want. It would be a PR nightmare for the DOJ.

The DOJ knows the vast majority of legal gun owners obey the law. As it stands, the law says no detachable mags and pistol grips. The DOJ knows us good citizens will follow the law and keep our off list rifles in gimped, fixed-mag configuration.

The DOJ is taking it a step further though by saying that they're gonna change how a fixed magazine is defined. This measure is to keep people from ordering off-list lowers in the future. If the mag has to be permanently attached to the lower, then most people wont go through the trouble... welding, rivets, epoxy, etc are a hassle.

 

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Uhh Governor has no say.

AG Lockyer does and he is a Democrat!

Uh, yeah. Arnie's been a real friend to gun owners, hasn't he?

 

[Mr.V.]

Uh, yeah. Arnie's been a real friend to gun owners, hasn't he?

What has he done that was that terrible? Banning the .50 cal? Not banning that thing would have been political suicide. There's little hope for california gun-owners without the federal government demanding that states respect individual freedoms guaranteed by the constitution. Hrm...if only we had a president, congress, and judiciary that all belonged to a single political party that could affect such a change...wouldn't that be something?

Either way, we're beginning to pass the point of no return over here. Few guns are allowed and fewer still are affordable and ungimped. There are too few new gun owners and more gun ranges are closing due to political pressure which makes it even harder to shoot what few guns you can own get new gun owners at the same time.

This leaves the single largest populace (not even including illegal immigrants) and arguably the most important state economically in the firearms crapper.

In some ways I hope it starts happening to people in other pro-firearm states so they realize the need to help the issue in states other than their own.

 

[MrTuffPaws]

What has he done that was that terrible? Banning the .50 cal? Not banning that thing would have been political suicide.

Any thing else you want to apologize for?

 

[50 Shooter]

How would it have been political suicide? The .50 is a non issue, the anti's just wanted to ban something else.

What the Dems did was dangle the budget carrot in front of his nose and Arnie sold Kali out. He's done at the end of his term, all his stupid jokes, comments... have doomed him. The bigger problem we face is the Dems that are running for office with no other Reps stepping up.

There's no way I'm voting for Arnie, so unless Tom McClintock is running I doubt that I'll even vote. I can't see voting for someone that is just one of the lesser evils.

I'll also go back to a statement that I made when this whole lower issue started. Kali doesn't have to open up any AW registration, by not doing so you're stuck with a neutered AR forever. If you get caught with a new one and it's modified in any way you're done! What are you going to do? Sue them? Yeah right! Keep dreaming, they hold all the cards and who do you think is going to help you?