New gun, horrible flaw? Ever happen to you?

[popeye]

I had a mod 19 from the Bangor Punta era. It was junk. If you held it at an angle you could see ripples on the frame flats where the milling machine chattered during manufacture. Internals were a mess. I bought a new mod 60 when they first came out. On second shot the hammer broke off.

 

[SnWnMe]

Lucky me!

All but one of my Smiths are from the 90s. They all work great. My 629 has an incredible 2.5# SA trigger! My 625 is the sweetest shooting 45 this side of a 1911. Maybe they were all made on Tuesday or Wednesday? Maybe I just don't know what to look for? Ignorance is bliss!

My F Comp 66 will be released from the 10 day holding tank next week!

 

[gulogulo1970]

I've always bought Colt revolvers, mostly D frames, one Anaconda. I had great luck with them until about 1999, then they went really downhill. I never bought a S&W because of loyalty. But, I always heard they were the best DA revolvers around. Now, I break down buy one and now everyone says there crap, unless your lucky. That's why I stopped buying Colts they were too hit and miss. Is there a good revolver out of the box? I recently bought a Ruger SP-101 3" and love it. Is Ruger "it" in the revolver market nowdays unless you get lucky with another manufacturer?
I just think its wrong that a company can sell a 700.00 gun and no really checks it out before it is put in a box. Furthermore alot of these guns you all are talking about for home protection, they have a greater responsablity to see that they work and work well. If I buy a $35.00 ladder at Home Depot its been checked at the factory, its going to work. They know if we make a ladder its important that it works so some one does not get hurt. It should at least be the same for a firearm maker. American gun makers need to show some pride in what they make, like they used to. When an old Detective Special or old Smith was a work of art not just another gun thrown into a box and shipped off.

 

[drannor]

Springfield Milspec .38 Super. Got it home, check the functionality thoroughly and found that when the safey was engaged the trigger still released the hammer. There's QC for you. Dumped it to someone who wanted it after repairs.

My only smith is a customized 686-1 with bull barrel, full underlug, trigger work, etc. It's been very reliable so far, built around 87 from what I can tell. I have two rugers (blackhawk and redhawk) that lack the 686's finesse but are incrediblt sturdy.

 

[Jim K]

I have not bought a new S&W for a good while, but I never got one that didn't work right.

I think many of the makers now, especially of model 1911 clones, adopt the same policy Ford did with gas tanks. "Make it fast and cheap and if anyone complains we'll fix it." Only trouble with the gas tanks was that the owners didn't complain, they just died.

Maybe one day a piece of cheap junk will fail and someone will be killed, and his family will sue big time. Then maybe the makers will take notice.

Jim

 

[WonderNine]

Sent it to Cylinder and Slide to be repaired.

I took my 84' Buick to Firestone auto and they told me it needed over $800 worth of work. I was shocked to find out all the problems it had. I said, "just an oil change will do for now." I drove it for 4 years after that until I sold it. No problems. Maybe you should have sent it to S&W???

 

[cxm]

S&W Repairs

Atticus,

Next time you have a problem with a used S&W revolver, try sending it to S&W for a "tune up." For around $50 they will repair just about anything that is wrong short of replacing things like barrels etc

I have had a number of guns worked on and the work has been prompt and of good quality with a single exception, which they were quick to make right.

There is not much better deal around.... suggest you give it a try.

V/r

Chuck



es, I'm afraid so. I bought a Model 19 at a gunshow last year. It appeared to be new or very lightly used. It had a pinned barrel, recessed cylinder, firing pin on the HAMMER, and the blueing was as perfect and deep as space. The box, tools, and manual looked new. I bought it quickly.
It was extremely accurate, but the cylinder would bind occasionally and I couldn't figure out why. A month or so ago it locked up while dry firing. I took it apart and the hammer stud fell out. Sent it to Cylinder and Slide to be repaired. I talked to the C&S smith a few days ago, and was shocked to learn all of the things wrong with it. Now, I'm paying C&S a lot of $ to make it right. Foolish perhaps, but the alternative was to scrap it, and buy another gun that might have some of the same issues. In the end, I hope to end up with a model 19 that is completely in spec, and has features that S&W can't or won't produce today. I'll find out next month.....

 

[craigz]

I love reading these stories where someone buys a lemon, complains about the decline of ethics in American manufacturing, and then proceeds to pawn said lemon off on some other unsuspecting sucker.

 

[gulogulo1970]

Craigz,

So who is doing that in this thread? I have never sold a faulty gun to anyone. I think that is bad ethics and I didn't manufacture the gun. I think we should hold makers of products that could get you killed to a higher standard. That gun should have never left the factory in that condition. But on the other hand I should have been more careful when I bought it, they didn't do there quality control but neither did I. I'm not going to pawn my gun onto anyone. I should get it back on Wednesday, if its not fixed to my satisfaction it will keep going back til they get it right. If I have to send it back again, what that will do is insure that I never buy another gun from Smith and Wesson again. This is the first gun that I ever bought that was broken from the get go. So over all, I feel lucky considering the number of firearms I have bought over the last 15 years. If Americans can't make guns correctly anymore, then how is our manufacturing sector going to compete with the rest of the world in making anything?

I do think it is kinda punkish to profess your glee in someone buying a lemon, Craigz.

 

[VictorLouis]

With as many firearms as S&W has made,

it's a wonder there's only a handful of naysayers on this post.

The fact is, any revolver from Smith or Ruger is highly likely to be a a sure-thing, right out of the box. Now, if you go back and read the posts complaining about S&W, just insert the brand-name Taurus instead. That's the real-world state of quality-control in their revolver manufacturing.

 

[Blueduck]

That is a point VictorLouis, just not a good one

It's true, "I've never had friend that had car trouble with a Ferrari, but know several who have had trouble with Ford's, therefore Ferrari's are more reliable than Fords" is faulty logic.

But in S/W case were comparing apples to apples not apples to "Tauri". Current manufacture guns should have an advantage of comparing "brand new guns" vs. "Old possibly worn out guns made on out dated machiens". Now HONESTLY how many people you know who are going around saying "Wow I'd never buy an old S/W they just were not made very well, these new guns are great though!!!" versus the opposite opinion???

Standards have dropped considerably over the years to either keep prices down or increase profit. Anyone who honestly denies this is living in a dream world. Sure some good guns get out nowdays and some bad ones escaped in the old days but on a whole someone would have to be blind to to not notice the differecne.

What Ruger and Taurus do or have done is no concern to me. What bothers me is the constant "lowering of the bar" from a company we know from personal experience can do better. Frankly I'm less disturbed by the occasional "how the heck did that get outa here" gun (which is going to happen to any company) versus the "It meets our current standard" response to shoddy work.

 

[VictorLouis]

"I've never had friend that had car trouble with a Ferrari, but know several who have had trouble with Ford's, therefore Ferrari's are more reliable than Fords" is faulty logic.

Well, in this case, S&W is Ford, whereas Korth might be Ferrari. In any case, the analogy is meaningless, as Smith has arguably produced the greatest number of revolvers, yet I've seen the least amount of poor examples of their product. I don't care whether you're referring to used guns, or new ones.

But in S/W case were comparing apples to apples not apples to "Tauri". Current manufacture guns should have an advantage of comparing "brand new guns" vs. "Old possibly worn out guns made on out dated machiens".

Now that I can make sense of. Yes, new Taurus guns are the only brand and product every one of which is hand-examined before being put out for display at one of my favorite shops. The owner grew weary of paying out of pocket to send back a handful of the ones he sold every month for warranty attention. Unlike S&W, they don't eat the shipping.

Now HONESTLY how many people you know who are going around saying "Wow I'd never buy an old S/W they just were not made very well, these new guns are great though!!!" versus the opposite opinion???

Now there's something that I can't contend with! Seriously though, I love old Model A's, and early Corvette
s. Heck, I'd drive one myself if I could afford the thing, and had a secure place to park it. Does that mean new Vette's or horrible, and they don't make them like they used to? Call me strange, but I LIKE stainless steel, and don't mind MIM parts. However, I could do without the lock-zit.

Standards have dropped considerably over the years to either keep prices down or increase profit. Anyone who honestly denies this is living in a dream world.

If you're talking about the lament of hand-polishing, and hot-dip blueing, I'm all with you. But, don't try and convince me that the modern alloys, and CNC machining that allowed for the likes of the .500 Magnum to come to market is a bad thing.

Sure some good guns get out nowdays and some bad ones escaped in the old days but on a whole someone would have to be blind to to not notice the difference.

Well, I wasn't of 'gun-age' during the height of the Bangor-Punta era, but I recall reading a lot of similar whining in that vein at that time.

"It meets our current standard" response to shoddy work.

Give me an example of that? You mean a gun with a flash gap of say.006", and you're displeased because it's not.003"? Sorry, but I thing anything less than .008" is acceptable, functionally anyway. Or, do you mean a 14lb "lawyer-trigger" necessitated by today's legal climate? Not happy because they didn't take the time to put it at 8lbs.? Sorry, but I've fondled enough NIB guns from the days of yesteryear that have also left me wanting. So, I can't get all lathered up over the supposed sad state of affairs in quality-control at S&W.

 

[Blueduck]

Give me an example of that? You mean a gun with a flash gap of say.006", and you're displeased because it's not.003"?

Well sent two guns in for work on the gap recently so that is a timely question. Was told by "Kate" who assured me that she spoke directly with "John" that a gap of .004 on one side and .010" on the other was perfectly "in spec" with them. You didn't mention your standards for cylinder run out but did state that

but I thing anything less than .008" is acceptable,

that means that you don't agree with S/W .004"-.010" specs either. Glad to have you aboard Vic

Second gun they sent back after working on would not even accept a .0025 gauge. Had I just loaded it up and depended on it as 70+% of people would I could have gotten into serious trouble. Didn't mention what your minimum was but I'm betting were in agreement on this not being right as well.

Lawyer triggers??? Still kinda looking around for the case law that sites a 15# trigger is ok, but a 12# is not. Perhaps it was the same suit that made "Vito" polish the heck out of my rebound slide during a trigger job and leave the area it rides on looking like a gravel road. Last $87 of mine he'll ever get. Came back with a bent yoke as well making a couple of cylinders out of line. I'm not saying it was bent there as it may have been bad when I bought it, but the spitting could have injured another shooter on the line. A basic inspection when performing any kind of work would not be asking too much.

No it's not about polished blued finishes, walnut stocks and little old men producing works of art. Nor is it about the "agreement" or S/W haters because of it. You'll find the original poster was not asking why "They don;t make 'em like they used too". He recieved a broken gun for a large sum of money. Go up and down this forum and you will find tons of complaints reagrding whats going on at S/W. People can stick there heads in the sand or deal with it.

Some have the idea that all complaints against S/W are some sort of Hillary Clinton like "right wing consipracy". Not sure how I can convince folks otherwise but I didn't buy 9 of the darn things profess my love for them over a few years at the S/W forum and TFL, just to set up some alternative agenda. I'm neither bright nor patient enough for that kind of planning

 

[Stainz]

Including my five new S&W's, I know of over thirty new recent model S&W purchases - friends and range-acquaintances. My previously mentioned scrunched ejector spring, again, only found upon dissassembly, and a 4" 625 with some cosmetic defect pin-holes in the ejector shroud (He looked it over in the dealer's - they were hard to find!) were the only faults I tabulated. Interestingly, S&W erred upon it's return - they put a 5" barrel on it! Another return yielded a perfect 4" 625 - with, I believe, chamfered charge holes and a better action than my 4"-er had new. Interestingly, through use, most S&W's lose the 'lawyer'-trigger. I will buy more new S&W's and Rugers - and avoid Tauri, but that is my opinion.

Stainz

 

[280PLUS]

i aint got but the one,,,

its a S&W 332 and ive got about 500-600 rounds at least through it now and it still seems to go bang every time and it's pretty darn accurate for a snubby too

but i'm glad to hear these stories cause now i'm more aware

i wonder whether you're apt to get more junk at gunshows because it's an opprtunity for unscrupulous ones to purchase what they know full well is junk and at a junk price, only to pawn them off on an ususpecting or, better yet, uneducated buyer

if i brought a gun like that home from my local gunshop, i'd be back in there making them take the thing back so fast their cylinders would spin

(please excuse corny gun pun)

 

[Oleg Volk]

Last SW581 I bought had an off-center barrel.
Looked at SW638 at the store, found metal shaving all over the inside of the gun! Yuck!

 

[Mike Irwin]

As I've noted time and time again in various S&W threads, I remember when S&W introduced the CNC machinery with great pomp & circumstance, saying that this would allow them to match the masterful handwork fitting of the old guns with the price benefits of modern computer controlled machinery.

After finding 5 NIB revolvers with barrels that were incorrectly installed, not to mention finding guns with sideplate gaps that look as if they were cut by a drunken monkey, and various other problems, I keep wondering when we're going to finally see the benefits from this CNC machinery...

Oh, silly me. We ARE seeing the benefits of the machinery.

Obviously that was a couple million dollars well spent.