New guy (to rifles) with a question on the 10FP

[Bassguy]

Hi all,

First off, just wanted to say hello as I'm new to the rifle country community.

I've been lurking for a few days now, and am considering picking up my first rifle for target shooting and such, and came across a thread on the Savage Arms 10FP. Quite a few folks had nothing but good things to say about it, so I figured I'd follow up at my local shop. I went in a started up a conversation on what type of rifle would be appropriate for a rank amateur, and without prompting he brought up the Savage 10FP in .223. We talked it over, he showed me a similar model and the Accutrigger, and I left with a good overall impression.

So, I figured it'd be a good idea to come back here and follow up with a question or two. Although I'm looking for a rifle to begin shooting with, I'd also like it to last. I don't need the size of the .308 (and the cheaper ammo of the .223 is a plus). In your opinions, does the 10FP fit the bill of a good starter rifle? What else is there that I should be giving consideration to?

Thanks for the help folks!

 

[chrisTx]

.223 is a good choice. .308s have a lot more kick that aren't good to start shooting with.

as far as lasting a long time, i use my 10FP .308 for police work. it better hold up. another good thing about the 10FP is the barrels are relatively easy to replace. just understand that it's a big heavy gun. it's great for bench rest shooting and target practice, but you don't really want to pack it across the continent. depends on what you want from it though.

 

[MikeH]

I'm not paid to say all these, but I'm a happy owner of a 10FP 223.

A 10FP will serve you well as a starter rifle and beyond. It shoots accurately out of the box. All you need is a decent scope mounted properly, and good ammo. You can automatically assume that you haven't done your job if you aren't shooting < 1MOA.

Though not as many after-market parts are available, there are still enough should you want to upgrade it after you figured out the basics. I think it's one of the best choices around for what you need.

 

[rangerruck]

a 10 fp is good for everyone, new or experienced. you can keep it all your life, and never get dissed by it. the 223 round is good for just about anything you want to do , just dont go after big game.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

IF YOU'RE WILLING TO CONSIDER A RIMFIRE, READ ON. IF NOT - IGNORE THE FOLLOWING.


If you are looking for any starter rifle, as a target gun, and can do rimfire - consider the .17hmr. The benefits include: cheapest "target grade" ammo, zero recoil, no fussing or experimenting with different ammo's or handloads, super accurate, low rifle cost.

The vast majority of bolt action .17hmr's are out of the box moa guns. There are countless testimonials and reports of Marlin 17's shooting 1/2 moa right out of the box. I have an NEF break action .17hmr that is no where near the quality of a Savage or Marlin in any respect - and it shoots MOA with my skills and a 4.5lb trigger that uses a transfer bar (inconsistant ignition of rim). That's not some bubba unmeasured estimated group size, or "best of the day"..this is over and over, measured with calipers. I can't complain for an MOA rifle for $130.


The ammo is around $9.50 per 50rds. This is much cheaper than any premium brand .223 with a premium bullet. There are a few brands to choose from in .17hmr, but most use the same bullet, and same charge. They are almost all identical in a given weight. There is no budget ammo in .17hmr, so anything you get will shoot great. The difference is in which one shoots outstanding.


Most outdoor ranges are 100 yards, that suits the .17hmr perfectly. The rifle should cost around $200 give or take $20, which saves big money for buying a superior optic that can later be put on a quality centerfire once you know what you want in a centerfire.


Trigger upgrades on most .17hmr rifles is cheap, much cheaper than doing trigger upgrades on centerfire bolt actions.


In my opinion, it is by far the most cost effective, yet best way to get quality target practice at 100 yards for a beginner. It allows someone who's never done any shooting from a rested position for the best possible accuracy, to doing just that and get a person up to par without breaking the bank. The skills it takes to make groups smaller than 1" are the same on a .17hmr as they are on any other rifle. Learn not to jerk the trigger for 18 cents a shot, not 50.

 

[YodaVader]

The 12FV is also very similar to the 10FP in .223 - just a couple of inches of barrel length. If I bought either version I would eventually replace the stock with an aftermarket or even a Savage laminated stock. A rifle as good as the Savage deserves to be stocked in something better than flimsy plastic.

I am thinking of going with a Savage in .223 myself! I looked over some at the gunshow on Friday and really liked the 12BVSS (see attachment) , a BIG rifle , it is NOT one to carry around! But for my use it would be perfect.

For a starter rifle I think the Savage in .223 would be a great choice regardless of 10FP , 12FV , 12FVSS , 12BVSS or Model 12 Varminter Low Profile.

 

[killzone]

I don't know much on the target shooting but...

I wouldn't get the .223 if I were you and I wouldn't waste money on savage also. I like the savage hunting rifles but that is about it.

They say, if you want a good starter target gun, try HOWA 1500 in heavy barred action and get a good target stock.(Not Boyds) - I think they come with a recrest crown.

Don't be afraid of the .308 kick. It really is nothing. I can't reccomend .308 enough for a starter like yourself. You will find better selection of ammo. I used the .308 for 6 years and it really is a perfect learning round. Now I use the 300RUM on my M700 Police and It only took me 2 days to get used to it -meaning under an inch at 200 yards.

I am very new to the target shooting world but I would suggest to get suggestions form the folks at the competative shooting forum.

 

[YodaVader]

I wouldn't get the .223 if I were you and I wouldn't waste money on savage also

Can you give some reasons why you feel the Savage is a waste of money? Just curious since I have considered buying one myself.

There are certainly a lot of Savage shooters who don't feel their rifles are a waste - Bassguy, for more info on Savage go to savageshooters.net

The military match shooter at Camp Perry use the 223 in the 600 yard competition , many of them who used to be 308 shooters.

 

[esldude]

For a starter rifle, I agree with getting a bolt action rimfire. Even after owning rifles for years, when I got a quality rimfire, which allowed thousands of shots practice, it greatly improved my shooting. I would suggest a 22lR however. Shooting those at 50 yards lets you get practice on all the fundamentals even cheaper than a 17 hmr. Shooting those at 100 yards is somewhat similar to shooting at 300 or 350 yard with centerfire. All good practice. Also lets you figure out what you want in your next rifle.

Other than rimfire first, the 10FP is a fine accurate rifle. I have one pre-Accutrigger in .223 which is like most Savage rifles moa even with Winchester whitebox value ammo. It is sub-MOA with better ammo it likes such as the Hornady.

 

[killzone]

Can you give some reasons why you feel the Savage is a waste of money? Just curious since I have considered buying one myself.

You are right, I should have worded that diffrently. It isn't waste of money. I guess hering about guys that wanted to save money and bought a savage and ended up replacing the stock anyway + the cost ended up equaling what an ok remington would have been at first place.
Sorry about that Savage owners.

 

[C-grunt]

I have a 10FP in .308 and I find it to be a great rifle. Very accurate, moa even with cheap surplus ammo. It will shoot under 1/2" if I do my part, which I usually dont. Mine loves Win. Supreme 150 grn ballistic silvertips.

When I bought my rifle I had a 1000 dollar budget. So I could spend 500 dollars on a 10 FP and buy a good scope, or I could have bought a Remmy 700 Police and bought an OK scope. I ended up getting the Savage and a Leupold Mark4 and still stayed under my budget.

Get the 10FP, youll love it.

 

[Falconeer]

I also have a 10FP in .308 and have been very happy with it. I'm replacing the stock to improve cheek weld (the combination of low stock comb and higher than average rings), but other than that I've been happy with the original. I'm fairly new to rifle myself.

 

[MikeH]

The only concern I want to point out about going rimfire is that many serious shooters eventually take up reloading. By then, you'll want a centerfire rifle.

 

[killzone]

Good point MikeH

I totally agree with you. Might as well start off with the center fire. For at home practice it is still possible to use airguns and such.

 

[MikeH]

Just a note on ammo choices. 10FP .223 has 1 in 9" twist. It does best with 68gr or 69gr ammo, easily grouping sub-MOA. Lighter bullets such as 55gr to 62gr will stabilize. Just don't expect to see one gratifying ragged hole.

For long-range work it can handle even heavier bullets, but grouping tends to become larger.

 

[YodaVader]

A 1 in 9" twist can still shoot the lighter bullets with excellent accuracy , in fact with my 1 in 9" twist 700 the best and most consistent accuracy has come with the 52 , 53 grain match bullets. Some of those over at Savageshooters.net have also mentioned achieving excellent accuracy with the lighter bullets.

What sparked my interest in the Savage was the fact that in some model to model compairisons with the Rem 700s the Savage looked to be the better buy. I am looking for a laminated stocked long barrel .223 to go along with my 20" 700.

The 700 VLS and Savage VBSS are both around $600 , but the Savage is stainless , has an easily adjustable trigger that is advertised to go down to 1.5lbs and is actually free floated.

 

[Davo]

I got to shoot this model yesterday, and really enjoyed it. I am begining to think that this is the rifle for me, as opposed to the rem 700p. The money I save will allow me to upgrade my scope, which is at least, if not more important in the long range shooting game. Does anybody know the twist rate in .308?. I would want to load up the sierra 175gr mbt, at around 2650fps.

 

[ocabj]

I got to shoot this model yesterday, and really enjoyed it. I am begining to think that this is the rifle for me, as opposed to the rem 700p. The money I save will allow me to upgrade my scope, which is at least, if not more important in the long range shooting game. Does anybody know the twist rate in .308?. I would want to load up the sierra 175gr mbt, at around 2650fps.

The twist rate of a factory Savage .308 barrel on a 10FP is 1 in 10".

 

[Bassguy]

Thanks for all the tips guys!

As far as accessories (again, I'm way new to this), what kind of scope would be good to look for (with mount?) without breaking the bank...something that I could start out with, and could resell when it's time to upgrade? Let's say that I'm starting with 100 yd target practice...

Thanks again

 

[MikeH]

I had a Simmons AETEC 12x on mine. Later replaced it with a Mueller 25x. Both scopes cost about $150 each.

Both were mounted with Burris rings on Weaver 2-piece base.

12x is ample for 100 yards, but 25x lets you really see how much your hand trembles.

 

[charlesb_la]

Don't Tread On Me IF YOU'RE WILLING TO CONSIDER A RIMFIRE, READ ON. IF NOT - IGNORE THE FOLLOWING.


If you are looking for any starter rifle, as a target gun, and can do rimfire - consider the .17hmr. The benefits include: cheapest "target grade" ammo, zero recoil, no fussing or experimenting with different ammo's or handloads, super accurate, low rifle cost.

The vast majority of bolt action .17hmr's are out of the box moa guns. There are countless testimonials and reports of Marlin 17's shooting 1/2 moa right out of the box. I have an NEF break action .17hmr that is no where near the quality of a Savage or Marlin in any respect - and it shoots MOA with my skills and a 4.5lb trigger that uses a transfer bar (inconsistant ignition of rim). That's not some bubba unmeasured estimated group size, or "best of the day"..this is over and over, measured with calipers. I can't complain for an MOA rifle for $130.


The ammo is around $9.50 per 50rds. This is much cheaper than any premium brand .223 with a premium bullet. There are a few brands to choose from in .17hmr, but most use the same bullet, and same charge. They are almost all identical in a given weight. There is no budget ammo in .17hmr, so anything you get will shoot great. The difference is in which one shoots outstanding.


Most outdoor ranges are 100 yards, that suits the .17hmr perfectly. The rifle should cost around $200 give or take $20, which saves big money for buying a superior optic that can later be put on a quality centerfire once you know what you want in a centerfire.


Trigger upgrades on most .17hmr rifles is cheap, much cheaper than doing trigger upgrades on centerfire bolt actions.


In my opinion, it is by far the most cost effective, yet best way to get quality target practice at 100 yards for a beginner. It allows someone who's never done any shooting from a rested position for the best possible accuracy, to doing just that and get a person up to par without breaking the bank. The skills it takes to make groups smaller than 1" are the same on a .17hmr as they are on any other rifle. Learn not to jerk the trigger for 18 cents a shot, not 50.

This is great advice. It's too bad so many are too macho to take it. The fundamentals are the same and you can save up for your centerfire rifle and know exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Limey46]

I've had my 10FPLE-A1 in .223 for three weeks now. I bought it used. So far I've shot Federal Premium 77-grainers, Black Hills 68-grainers, Israeli IMI 62-grain SS109 ball, and Spanish surplus NATO-spec 55-grainers from the early '80s. Shooting off the bench at 100 yards both with and without a Harris bipod, using a cheap BSA 6-24 target scope, I have not been able to make groups any bigger than 3/4" when I'm doing my part. The Federal 77-grainers, the very first rounds I fired through the gun, made a single 5-round 3/8" hole.

This 10FPLE-A1 is what Savage called its Police Tactical rifle, with a short barrel, oversized bolt handle, AccuTrigger, and a Dragunov-like adjustable stock made by Choate. Mine is unusual in that it's even shorter than the standard, and has an AR-style birdcage flash hider. It's the second 10FP and the seventh Savage target/varmint/sniper rifle I've owned, and while they've all been just great, this one is utterly spectacular. I almost can't believe how good it is. In fact, it's the single MOST ACCURATE RIFLE OF ANY TYPE, CALIBER, OR PRICE I HAVE EVER SHOT. My experience isn't huge, but it does include a few of the best Remington, Sako, and Tikka factory target/sniper guns and some pretty slick custom builds.

I hate the way my Savage looks, and the stock is cheesy, and the whole rig is just -- well, cheap is what it is -- but the heart of the gun is pure gold and the in terms of performance the whole system speaks for itself. All I'm going to change is the scope: install a quality piece rather than wait for the BSA to start coming apart, then enjoy the little bugger forever.

I concur that for a beginner, 223 is the way to go., for all the reasons already stated. I can have fun with it long past the point where a 308 wears me out.

 

[rockstar.esq]

Someone allready covered this but the total including a great scope can and often is under 1k. I'd recommend IOR 2.5-10x 52 as the glass is the same as in Leica only much less money. Recoil is much more of a mental appararition than physical. The .308 Win certainly has recoil however you'd leave yourself the option to hunt as well as shoot long range (1000yds). You'll find a guy or two who claim to have done so with a .223 however IF they lob them that far I'd wager they feel like a poorly tossed rock. Handloading the .308 also allows you to really extract every iota of accuracy on the cheap. The .223 shares this trait and it is cheaper. I intend to purchase the same model in .223 to give myself a varmint rifle that feels just like my big boomer. Before you decide I'd give some serious thought to what you intend to do with it. If you will only target shoot out to 500yds or so the longest barrel you can get is a sure bet. If you intend on carrying the thing around, make sure it's comfortable for you. One advantage of the .223 is that shorter barrels may rob velocity however at the ranges most folks apply them, it doesn't change much. In fact theres a whole group of shooters who swear that the shorter barrel is stiffer and thusly adds to accuracy. Food for thought.

 

[Cueball]

I have a Savage 223 in the Model 12 flavor and I love it. Accuracy is great, it's affordable, and the 223 caliber is great to start with.

For an economical way to get into the gun and a scope, consider the Model 12FVXP which comes complete with a scope already mounted. It's a 4-12X40 AO scope and will be fine for starters. The whole package can be had NIB for under $500.

 

[Bassguy]

Hey Cueball, where did you pick up the 12FVXP? I've been searching online (Savage site and Google) and haven't found that package...