I have a ar15 .223 will that work on hogs, alligators, black bears, panthers, and deer? also I would havea .357 revolver as back up will that suffice as well against the animals listed above? I mention alligators, black bears, and panthers because those are the bigger predators I would have to worry about. thanks for the feedback
new hunter needs to know what caliber to use
- Thread starter gunflask
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No, in fact it may be illegal for some of the animals listed depending on your state's laws.
Check to see what is legal first.
.223 is generally considered to be bare minimum for deer. You must be mindful to pick a .223 bullet designed for medium sized game and not varmints. No HP's, polymer tipped bullets, FMJ's etc. Federal and winchester both make a 64 gr soft point that is acceptable. I don't have any experience with the other 3 critters so I will let someone else chime in.
Check to see what is legal first.
.223 is generally considered to be bare minimum for deer. You must be mindful to pick a .223 bullet designed for medium sized game and not varmints. No HP's, polymer tipped bullets, FMJ's etc. Federal and winchester both make a 64 gr soft point that is acceptable. I don't have any experience with the other 3 critters so I will let someone else chime in.
kanook
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Your .357 back up would be a better choice for some depending on how and where you hunt.
Chances are every animal you listed has been harvested with the .223 at one time or another.
Since we don't know where you plan on hunting we really can't say "do it" but we are more apt to say "no" for right now.
Chances are every animal you listed has been harvested with the .223 at one time or another.
Since we don't know where you plan on hunting we really can't say "do it" but we are more apt to say "no" for right now.
LeontheProfessional
Member
Some states have a minimum caliber requirement for big game and if that is the case where you live 223 will not fit the bill more than likely. 223 is capable of taking any of the above game, however it is not ideal, especially for black bear. I would recommend something more like a 308 or 30-06 for all the above. You could pick up a decent rifle in one of these two calibers for under $300 dollars.
Supertac45
Member
Absolutely not. It is possible to take deer with a well place round and cats; but no way for bear. Yes, I know it will kill them, but no.
LeontheProfessional
Member
223 will work ok for Black bear but it is definitely not ideal.
http://www.sooeveningnews.com/news/x366040048/Brimley-teenager-bags-bruin
http://www.sooeveningnews.com/news/x366040048/Brimley-teenager-bags-bruin
Gungnir
Member
At 275lb it was Boo Boo, not Yogi.
Anyway these reports are like reports of Dolphins pushing shipwreck survivors to the shore. You never get to hear the other 50% of the time when the dolphin pushed the survivor out to sea.
Anyway these reports are like reports of Dolphins pushing shipwreck survivors to the shore. You never get to hear the other 50% of the time when the dolphin pushed the survivor out to sea.
LeontheProfessional
Member
IDK about Michigan but in the south east 275lbs is pretty typical. I have seen the bear around here and have no doubt that with a heart/ lung shot the bear will go down using 223. With that being said, It surely is not ideal because if you miss the heart/ lung you have a wounded quite alive bear that will probably either live or make it quite some distance before it does die.
happycamper374
Member
While I wouldn't debate that you could kill all of those animals with that caliber, I think you need something a little bigger. And even if those larger predators weren't on your "self defense" part of the list, I'd still want something larger.
Gungnir
Member
LeontheProfessional said:
We had a Momma bear here last summer/fall eating blueberries with a couple of 2 year old cubs that were at least 300 pounds, Momma looked like she tipped the scales at 600-650lbs. I guess they make 'em smaller down south.
exbiologist
Member
It looks like you live in Florida, and you need to take a hunter safety course to get boned up on legal weapons and legal game in your area. Panthers and black bears are not legal game. You're talking about marginal calibers for hunting. I've seen both work on game, but if you want to hunt, get a rifle designed for that purpose. There's all sorts of stuff you can in the $300 range, and hey, then you'd have a new gun! Marlin and Stevens offer great guns for the money, the new T/C Venture too. But my preference in used guns are sporterized Mausers, which you can pick up for $250-$400, which is a heck of lot less than it would cost to build some of the nicer ones you see on the used on gun racks.
Looking at your hunting regulations, you cannot use a semi auto rifle with a larger than 5 round magazine, FMJs are illegal, and assuming you are born after 1975, you are required to take a hunter's safety course.
Looking at your hunting regulations, you cannot use a semi auto rifle with a larger than 5 round magazine, FMJs are illegal, and assuming you are born after 1975, you are required to take a hunter's safety course.
matrem
Member
Been over a decade since I've swung one, but still seems relevant:
Would you golf 18 with a 9 iron & a putter?
I'm betting they'll "work".
There are better tools.
No. Even if your state laws do permit the use of this caliber I still wouldn't use it. If you want to stay with the AR swap out your upper for the 6.8. For a bolt action I wouldn't do anything less than a 270 for sure. I'd rather have too much than not enough any day of the week.
scythefwd
Member
gunflask, where will you be hunting at? What type of range will your shots be at? As others have stated, the .223 will do the job, but I wouldn't rely on it against bears. I would go .243 or larger, depending on what range you are talking about. The .270 is a good choice out to further than most new hunters should be shooting at, and far enough that experienced hunters use it for long distance shots.
qajaq59
Member
Would it kill a bear? Probably. But the rub is "how quickly?" And how good a shot are you with the .357 when you have 200 pounds of nasty charging at you?
Arkansas Paul
Member
You do what you want to hoss, but this ol boy aint shooting a bear with a .22 caliber bullet. I don't care how light he is. The .357 will suffice as your backup. With a .223 on bear, the chances of you having to use that backup are going to be greater.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
gunflask, as near as I can tell: Most who have been successful with a .223 on game animals have used scoped rifles and are above-average shooters. If you don't fit into that category, odds are that you shouldn't be using the AR as your primary hunting rifle.
Test yourself: If you can hit the end of a soda can 9 out of 10 times at some distance, whatever distance that is is your limit. Don't cheat.
If you're bound and determined to use your AR on deer, limit yourself to a cross-body heart/lung shot. The .223 is not really good for penetration on an angling shot.
Test yourself: If you can hit the end of a soda can 9 out of 10 times at some distance, whatever distance that is is your limit. Don't cheat.
If you're bound and determined to use your AR on deer, limit yourself to a cross-body heart/lung shot. The .223 is not really good for penetration on an angling shot.
R.W.Dale
Member
Would you guys please stop this!
there I fixed your statment
good-ness! that's like saying you shouldn't hunt with a rem700 because one of the calibers it's available in comes is .223
Me personally on the game you outline I have just as much faith in a .223 firing a modern hunting bullet as I do a 30-30 firing cheap on sale wally-world "shells". BUT as pointed out above YOU need to be up to the task. A .223 is not a cartridge for the kinda hunter who cannot stop himself from shooting at the first fur he sees.
there I fixed your statment
good-ness! that's like saying you shouldn't hunt with a rem700 because one of the calibers it's available in comes is .223
Me personally on the game you outline I have just as much faith in a .223 firing a modern hunting bullet as I do a 30-30 firing cheap on sale wally-world "shells". BUT as pointed out above YOU need to be up to the task. A .223 is not a cartridge for the kinda hunter who cannot stop himself from shooting at the first fur he sees.
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wankerjake
Member
Maybe we should go over what a modern hunting bullet is in .223. Like weight and manufacturer/type? I won't because I'm not familiar with what is offered in .223, but I will say that I'd put a heck of a lot more faith in a 30-30 shooting 150gr core-lokts (a cheap wally-world shell) than any offering in .223. Not saying a .223 won't kill deer, it will, I know you have pics to prove it Krochus
But you gotta pick your shots a with a little mroe discretion.qajaq59
Member
Ahhhh, Not quite! schlockinz
Member
For self defense, I think that the .223 would be fine (you will doubtfully have problems with black bears beyond just being a pain in the ass at times, and it may be better to have the state remove them then relying on SSS if they're being a big nuisance).
As for hunting, I'd invest in a 30-30, or maybe a slug gun. Somewhat inexpensive, ammo is cheap (and those cheapy wal-mart shells have taken plenty of game, hell, I used to shoot em at 300yds on deer and yotes, but with a 30.06).
The 30-30 in a lever action will have good capacity, decent resale (compared to what you paid for it), and good energy. A .357 would be another choice since you already have one, redundancy is nice.
As far as cats, I wouldn't worry about them. If one wants to kill you, odds are it'll have you before you get to your AR.
Deer with a .223, its been done, make sure that you're up to the task and know when to pass up shots (importante!!!), and make sure that its legal.
As for hunting, I'd invest in a 30-30, or maybe a slug gun. Somewhat inexpensive, ammo is cheap (and those cheapy wal-mart shells have taken plenty of game, hell, I used to shoot em at 300yds on deer and yotes, but with a 30.06).
The 30-30 in a lever action will have good capacity, decent resale (compared to what you paid for it), and good energy. A .357 would be another choice since you already have one, redundancy is nice.
As far as cats, I wouldn't worry about them. If one wants to kill you, odds are it'll have you before you get to your AR.
Deer with a .223, its been done, make sure that you're up to the task and know when to pass up shots (importante!!!), and make sure that its legal.
A 22 short will kill a bear if done right. The most important thing is using a caliber that is fair to the game it is being applied to. To me it is always vital that I bring down my game with one shot that kills instantly. It is not fair to let an animal suffer because you want to try to make one caliber work for all.
R.W.Dale
Member
One shot that kills instantly?????? You haven't hunted much have ya?
I'm getting really really sick of this misplaced self righteousness folks drum up for themselves because they use X caliber over Y. Bow hunting very seldom produces instant kills are bowhunters unethical slobs?
I'm getting really really sick of this misplaced self righteousness folks drum up for themselves because they use X caliber over Y. Bow hunting very seldom produces instant kills are bowhunters unethical slobs?
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