New Kimber FTF problem...Courious as to what it may be

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cno53

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First time out with new Kimber Pro carry II. New Wilson Combat Mags.WWB 230Gr FMJ.
Used the Kimber factory mag first...the second and third rounds FTF, then I switched to the Wilson mags and didn't have a FTF for several rounds. Then every 12th or 14th round the slide would do one of two things:

1. Slide would stay open, just as if the mag was empty. At this point you could see the round still in the mag.To solve this I would pull the slide back 1/4" and release, the round would feed.
Or
2. Slide would not close completely. To solve this I would tap end of the slide (with butt of my hand) and round would finish loading.

Obviously I will ship the gun back to Kimber, but I'm curious as to what the problem may be. Any ideas or speculation?

Thanks,

Neal
 
How much have you shot it and have you cleaned it? Remember, Kimber recommends a 500-shot break-in period.

When I got my Stainless Target II/10mm, I had intermittent feeding and failure-to-close problems, too. The FTFs typically were associated with my other-brand mags--and were eventually solved with stronger magazine springs for the most part.

However, the failure to go into battery appeared to be mostly limited to the tight fitting and need to wear it in. The cleaning I did during this period involved the typical field-strip, and included thorough chamber cleaning with an oversized (.45ACP) bronze brush, but no excessive scrubbing. I did it after each range trip--or, at about 50, 125, 200, and 350 rounds, then at 450 and 550 rounds.

In the first 100 rounds or so, mine would heat up significantly--enough so to make it uncomfortable to touch after two mags of measured-rapid-fire. I cleaned it after each range trip--IIRC, that was at about 50, 125, and 200 rounds. By round 350, it was running much more smoothly and heating up much less. By round 550 or so, the noticable heating up was over with, and the gun was running quite smoothly. Except for mag tweaking, it ran flawlessly; the factory mag always worked properly.

Incidentally, the first 50 rounds were with some sort of factory FMJs, and the remainder were with reloads--a 180 FMJ running about 1050-1100 fps over WSF.

Based on my experience, and depending on your own assessment, you may not want or need to ship yours back to Kimber.

Jim H.
 
Yup!
Spend another $400 on ammo and be sure to hold it tight.
If that don't fix it, be ready to spend $70 to ship it back to the manufacturer.
How does this company stay in business?
:confused:
 
CNO53 ,
I had a problem with another brand , and is not exactly like your problem , but my first attempt at shooting found a round partially loaded in the barrel feed end
( jammed ) . I put a high polish in the ramp and feed area and seems to have eliminated my problem completely . Can only hope this might help you .
Trailer
 
How does this company stay in business?
Click to expand...

They have happy customers. I own 2 and they are flawless. I guess there are those that have had problems but I believe what I see and not what I hear and read. I just bought my third Kimber and am looking forward to having it in my collection.

Are you from RogersPrecision? I would think as a company representing itself here you would show more class than to bad mouth another company. Hmmm..... Makes me wonder about your ehtics.
 
Check your grip to insure you're not activating the slide catch under recoil locking back the slide prematurely. It's also possible that the thumb of your support hand is riding the slide enough to decrease slide velocity enough to case the failure to return to battery as well. Make sure you are using a good synthetic lubricant too. The dissimilar metals of the slide and frame require good lubrication to insure proper function.
str1
 
Rogers Precision said:
How does this company stay in business?
Click to expand...

By selling more 1911's than all other 1911 manufacturers combined. I'm a very, very, happy Kimber owner. I'm not so happy with Colt, even had a problem with my new Les Baer. I've read of problems with Springer, Wilson, Les Baer, Nighthawk, Taurus, Rock Island, Charles Daly, Colt, Kimber . . . . .
 
I am not 'from' Rogers Precision.
I AM Rogers Precision.
Kimber has a long and verified history of telling their customers to buy and shoot more ammo to 'break in their gun'. Or to hold on tighter to eliminate 'limp wrist' induced malfunctions.
Kimber problems with premature lock backs are quite well documented. Sometimes they will send out a proper slide stop that will correct the problem, sometimes not. Why have they not addressed this simple and common malady?
As a 1911 pistolsmith I have seen many Kimbers in my shop with the same problems over and over. As many of us know, Kimber's external extractors were quite often problematic. Kimber initiated a program of replacing slides to correct this. I've dealt with Kimber in attempting to remedy the extractor issue on behalf of my customers. I was treated fairly rudely and experienced poor customer service when attempting to purchase the latest generation of external extractor.
When the above 'fixes' fail, the customer must usually foot the bill to return the gun. This is expensive.
TIMC,
you question my 'ehtics'..........huh?
 
Guess I should have mentioned that I own more than a couple of 1911s. Two of which are Kimbers. Reliable, accurate, and durable. At least as good as some I have that cost a lot more. I would wager 90-95% of pistol malfunctions are caused by:
Operator error
Bad magazines
Bad ammo.
str1
 
How does this company stay in business?
Click to expand...
By selling a pretty good 1911. I've owned seven so far.
BTW, I've also owned four Paras, three Colts, three Springfields, and several others.

The Kimbers have been the best, far and away. If it were otherwise, I'd be buying one of the other brands.
 
I own two Kimbers and one suffered a disconnector failure after the first time I shot it. That's right 1 through the Pipe. They are not perfect. But overall they make a good product.

500 rounds to break in a gun is total Horse Excrement. I'm gonna have to look through my paperwork on that one.

If it's true then you really should never buy one.

Raleigh
 
Thanks for your commits. To answer the questions.

First time to shoot the gun. Ran 50 rounds WWB 230 Gr. FMJ

Was very aware not to limp wrist.

Used 2 new Wilson Combat mags and a new kimber factory mag.

This is my second Kimber, I also own a Ultra CDP II. As well as a Rohrbaugh and a Seecamp

I love the gun, it shot great, better than my CDP, when it feed properly.

IMHO... I purchased a Pro Carry II and that is exactly what I intend to do is Carry the gun to protect myself and mine. If its not working correctly fix it before you damage it further. This is a weapon with live ammunition not something I want to play around with and HOPE it works!

I understand shooting 500 rounds for the gun to run smoother. But this gun is not working properly and needs to be corrected.

What I did not purchase was a project. If I bought a $1000 camera that did not work properly Canon wouldn't ask me to run 2 or 3 hundred dollars of film through it to break it in. Jeep wouldn't ask me to drive 5000 miles to correct a tapping lifter. Nor would anyone in any other industry.

No where in the catalog or on the website did I see that 500 rounds may be required for the gun to run correctly.

In all fairness, I have not spoken to Kimber as it is Sunday. I will reach out for them tomorrow and hopefully they will be receptive as I will be greatly disappointed if they ask ME to correct this issue.
 
Well, obviously, Kimbers still generate controversy. WIW, mine was puchased new in July of 2007. It has the conventional internal extractor. It also has that damned whats-its-name internal safety disconnect, and it had the plastic mainspring housing until I fit an Ed Brown one.

I haven't dug out the manual from its original read--but I do remember that the break-in period was mentioned in it. I think. Anyone else see that in their manuals or in the related paperwork? As for accuracy--By round 350, I found that, with my 10mm 180 FMJ reloads, it was capable of repeatedly hitting the head of a bowling pin at 50 yards--at least if I did my part.

I remain a satisfied owner. It doesn't bother me to "break in" a tight-fitting mechanical tool of this nature.

FWIW, I also have owned (and still own some) better-quality film cameras--Nikon, Leica, and Hasselblad. Those I did not expect to "break in". However, the analogy that a camera is like a gun is, IMO, a bit inappropriate, except insofar as consumer expectations go.

Good luck with your call to Kimber tomorrow. With a bit of luck, Dennis will be happy--it's the start of the week. Other threads I have read suggest that Dennis is helpful when the customer is not belligerent, BTW.

Let us know how it goes.

Jim H.
 
Whoa now people..we're talking about 1911s here. There's no such thing as guaranteed 100% reliability with ANY manufacturer. (I know I know, if only H&K made a 1911:D LOL)

IMHO Kimber makes the finest *production* 1911 out there. Again, it is still a 1911 so there's always the chance that it will be a finicky pistol. I think the premature slide locking is caused by out of spec slide stops. I handled a Sig C3 at Sportsman's Warehouse and when racking the slide by hand it would get caught and not close fully. I asked the older gentleman who worked there why it was happening and he said because the slide stop was probably out of spec. He was an experienced 1911 guy so I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

1911 manufacturers simply can't be as consistently reliable as the H&Ks, Glocks, etc. I bought a blued Colt Commander (s80) a few months back and when I was at the gun shop I had two to choose from. One was poorly fitted and had flat spots on the barrel, while the one I took home was nicely crafted and pretty darn close to perfect. Besides the variances in fit/finish between two identical models of any particular 1911, you have to consider the fact that there are dozens of models in different sizes, finishes, available features, etc. within a 1911 manufacturer's line-up. The barrels, triggers, etc. are fitted, not machined and assembled like H&Ks or Glocks. You just can't expect the same consistency in the manufacturing process with 1911s. I mean hell, people spend $3000 on Wilsons that don't work properly out of the box and need to be sent back. Unacceptable? Maybe. Reality? Most definitely.

Quit hating on Kimber just because they sell a lot of 1911s, most of which are reliable and perform extremely well.
 
I do not believe Kimber makes a very good 1911 at all. I have owned a few, and none were 100%. I think a 500 round break in period and then accusing your customers of limp wristing is standard operating procedure for Kimber customer service.

That said, my opinion of Kimber, and those of other people, does not solve the original posters problem.

Assuming your mags are good, the slide locking back problem is probably due to an out of spec slide stop. I would try replacing it with another if you have one handy.

The slide not completely closing might be a more tricky problem, but is probably due to the extractor tension being wrong, or the chamber being tight.

I would change out the slide stop, and replace your recoil spring with a 16 or 18 pound Wolff spring, then clean and lube the gun. If the problem persists, you will need to send it back to Kimber.
 
I'm not hating on Kimber. If I didn't like Kimber wouldn't have purchased a second one.
My point is, when you spend a thousand dollars on a gun (from any manufacture) it should run properly. I understand 500 rounds to make it run smoother, but not to correct problems.
 
At today's ammo prices, 500 rounds is worth about $200... It would be nice if Kimber just charged $200 more, and sent out guns that worked 100%.
 
The slide not completely closing might be a more tricky problem, but is probably due to the extractor tension being wrong, or the chamber being tight
Click to expand...
In my limited experience, RTB issues with Kimbers are often traceable to a sticking firing pin safety plunger. Kimber occasionally fails to put enough radius on the bottom of the plunger, which in turn keeps it from sliding up/over the actuating rod thingee and consequently stops the slide from fully returning to battery as the plunger jams hard up against the actuating rod.

<drift>
Nothing comes for free - you can get a Series 80 firing pin safety design that doesn't engage until the trigger is pulled but then causes additional drag in the trigger pull, or you can get the Schwarz-type safety that actuates off the grip safety and doesn't interfere with trigger pull but which is fully actuated when the slide tries to RTB, or you can get a traditional 1911 without a firing pin safety. You pays yer money and you'se takes yer chances.
</drift>

On the Kimbers, keeping the bottom of the firing pin block plunger (where it sticks out of the bottom of the slide) greased and just shooting the pistol for a while often *will* actually burnish things in to the point of reliability, although I certainly would concur with those that suggest it should never leave the factory if it's not right.

I understand the frustration of folks like RogersPrecision, who watch Kimber occasionally crap all over the market for 1911s and who seem to be more effective at advertising than in producing in-spec pistols. On the other hand, Kimber does make some basic 1911s (such as the Custom II) that can be had for $750 or less in most markets and that are decent pistols for the money.

In the interest of disclosure - I currently own a number of Kimber Series IIs and they all have been flawless (altho the highest round count unit is still under 10K). When I compare my Kimbers to my Paras, Springers, and so forth - I come down clearly on the 'I'll take my chances on a Kimber' side of the house. But dollar for dollar, I'll take my Colt 1991-A1 over my Kimber Custom any day.


ETA - I am also a big fan of the Colt hybrid magazines, and they work in all of my 1911 pattern pistols without issue. They're not as cheap as the basic wadcutter mags made by CmC or Metalform or other, but they're cheaper than many 'premium' 1911 magazines and they flat out work.
 
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My Custom CDP II was having the same problems. I was using the Wilson 47D magazines because everyone said they are the best. I would get failure to feed pretty often. I decided to try some KimPro Tac-magazines and have not had a problem since. I got them here:http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/KimPro%20Tac-Mag%20full.html

It is now a pleasure to shoot and I've developed great confidence in it. I sold the Wilson mags. They are no doubt very good, but my Kimber just did not like them for whatever reason.


Now back to the Kimber bashing...:p
 
I just bought the kimber trace Pro carry II and since I was unable to purchase ammo for two days due to no .45 at gunshop and place that had it being closed but anyways. I finally shot it today and I love it. I realize that I have not put a lot of ammo though it but it performed well. Except for one operator error when I limp wristed racking the slide and it did not pull up from mag other than that no issues. It is my first Kimber but it was a good deal and I have heard many good things about them. I hope it continues to perform as well.
 
Nothing comes for free - you can get a Series 80 firing pin safety design that doesn't engage until the trigger is pulled but then causes additional drag in the trigger pull, or you can get the Schwarz-type safety that actuates off the grip safety and doesn't interfere with trigger pull but which is fully actuated when the slide tries to RTB, or you can get a traditional 1911 without a firing pin safety. You pays yer money and you'se takes yer chances.
Click to expand...

Well I certainly respect your opinion but...not that I disagree with you, I just feel somewhat different about the responsibility of a manufacture to their customer. I feel this way about anything I purchase, just so happens in this case its a gun.

I don't want anything for free, just paid $1000 for a new in the box gun. All I want is the same quality $1000 gun every one else gets, no more, no less. I should not have to go out and buy new parts to replace new parts (unless of course I choose to do so). As a matter of fact Kimber states on the first page of their new catalog...and I quote:

"Virtually every part of every Kimber is manufactured from the finest raw materials in the state-of-the-art factory right here in America. Assembly and testing is done by practiced hands under the same roof. Quality is the true measure of value. Whether it means accuracy or dependability, the beauty of a finish or the PRECISION fit between parts, quality is an integral part of every Kimber."

I don't perceive that to mean that I pay my money and take my chances, actually I perceive that to mean just the opposite.
I didn't buy a Lotto ticket...bought a gun. If I'm taking chances with $1000...it will be in the stock market (well maybe not this year).
But that's just me and my 2 cents.

Although I did speak to very nice gentleman from Kimber today and he is sending me a new slide stop, asked me to clean the gun, run another 50 rounds and see if that fixes the issue. I think that is very reasonable and feel Kimber is working with me to correct the problem. Exactly what hoped to hear. Now we'll see what happens.
 
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