New M&P15 - What Optics?

[Still Shooting]

My feeling on the laser is this: Following recent "Armed Citizen" columns in the Rifleman magazine, I have come across a few incidents where the appearance of a red dot on BG's body was enough to make him quickly reverse gears and beat a retreat. It does have a way of saying, "I am armed and prepared, and your demise is imminent".

My intention is to use the Aimpoint or open sights for plinking (primarily), and the laser only close-in if a defense situation arises. In that case, my wife will be pointing the Ithaca as well if we're both in the house.

 

[meanmrmustard]

My feeling on the laser is this: Following recent "Armed Citizen" columns in the Rifleman magazine, I have come across a few incidents where the appearance of a red dot on BG's body was enough to make him quickly reverse gears and beat a retreat. It does have a way of saying, "I am armed and prepared, and your demise is imminent".

My intention is to use the Aimpoint or open sights for plinking (primarily), and the laser only close-in if a defense situation arises. In that case, my wife will be pointing the Ithaca as well if we're both in the house.

That was my point in my last post. Not too many folks are going to get brave with a laser pointed between their eyes.

 

[hardluk1]

I would put what you feel you need on it. I have no want for a laser but after that deside what you will use it for and put the optic on it that does the job for a buget you can live with. Maybe a reflex from burris, doctor, c-more or leupold or just a 30 dollar red dot on a 45* base. .I find most of the stuff people hang on there ars are not worth the money.

If i have to light someone up to scare them off its allready to late for them. For home defence only. you might want just a Tritium sights on it and a quality flashlight for looking around after you have shot the BG.. Sights like this-
http://www.opticsplanet.com/trijicon-night-sight-sets-for-ar15-m16-cp25.html

 

[meanmrmustard]

Personally, I like the thought of NOT having to shoot someone if possible. You know, with having to go to court and whatnot. Any deterrent is a good one, and it puts a guy in jail rather than in the ground.

 

[pubthumper]

I would say no to the laser, and agree with a red dot. I had the same experience as another poster here, buying a red dot and lamenting the cost. As indicated, once sighted and actually used, its worth is obvious. As far as a laser being a deterrent in itself, well, no. I am sure it helps if said bad guy sees it, or that Ithaca (ouch), but if thats your situation I'd think things have gone way south real fast. Dont intimidate, shoot.

 

[meanmrmustard]

I would say no to the laser, and agree with a red dot. I had the same experience as another poster here, buying a red dot and lamenting the cost. As indicated, once sighted and actually used, its worth is obvious. As far as a laser being a deterrent in itself, well, no. I am sure it helps if said bad guy sees it, or that Ithaca (ouch), but if thats your situation I'd think things have gone way south real fast. Dont intimidate, shoot.

I wouldn't want to explain that line of reasoning in court. But, you're your own boss, right?

 

[pubthumper]

Perhaps not dude! But I'd not want to explain it in a graveyard either. Guess its all about application. I'd rather be in prison and my children alive than them (gulp) you know, and me free. You make a solid point, to be sure. This argument will outlive us, bro.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Perhaps not dude! But I'd not want to explain it in a graveyard either. Guess its all about application. I'd rather be in prison and my children alive than them (gulp) you know, and me free. You make a solid point, to be sure. This argument will outlive us, bro.

Indeed. Children involved? Bet you poop chute that at least one, well aimed shot is being taken by me, make no mistake.

No arguments, it's just nice to have choices!

 

[hardluk1]

One thing many do not know. In a low or basicaly no light light enviroment a dot offers darn near no view or highly reduced. There are several len's with coating on them that reduce what view you have if no light is used . They are by far faster to us when you have enough some reasonable light is acquire a target quickly with but in very low light even the glowing red or green dot takes away from down range field of view. Thats the one reason I mentioned the tritium sight inserts would be a better first choice with dot maybe mounted on a 45* mount. There is truely clear optics, all have a tint to them.

 

[TonyAngel]

I don't think that any long gun is the ideal weapon for in home defense, but I won't get into that; since the OP has chosen to go with an AR.

If you can afford it, I'd say get both. Like anything else, they are both tools and no tool is ideal for all situations. I know that many turn their noses up at lasers, but they can be very useful, especially in very close quarters when tensions are high.

If you can only afford one, I'd go with the red dot. It is useful in a broader range of situations. I wouldn't worry about not being able to see through the tube (unless you're blind in your weak eye). If you use the red dot the way it was intended to be used, not being able to see through the tube is not a problem, as long as there is enough light to see. Red dots lend themselves well to being used as an occluded eye sight.

I'd also like to say that I don't think that there's anything wrong with trying to use a deterrent before shooting someone (if given the opprotunity), especially in the current environment. I'm really surprised that so many here on THR are so willing to shoot first and ask questions later and are justifying their opinion or planned course of action with references to the protection of their family.

 

[mac66]

I put a Mueller Speed Shot 1-4X on a Burris PEPR mount on my optics ready M&P15. Uses a 4 MOA black dot reticule that illuminates if needed which IMO is better than just a red dot. I use it from close up to known distance drills out to 400 yards. Works very well.

 

[Tomac]

I've owned/used most Eotechs, Aimpoints and other types of optics over the years.
As others have already posted, I suggest ditching the laser and go w/the Aimpoint Pro w/it's typical Aimpoint ruggedness, reliability & insane battery life.
Due to my astigmatism I currently use the 1x Leupold Prismatic w/DCD (double-circle dot) reticle.
Tomac

 

[batmann]

I will second the Burris AR332. 3x magnifaction, rugged, water proof to several meters (3, I think), doesn't overwhelm you with size and weight, has a BDC retical with choice of Red or Green in various brightness levels or just leave the colors off and use the Black that requires no battery, useful if you should need it and the battery is dead. I mounted mine on Burris's QD mount and it replaced my TRS-25 on my S&W M&P 15. It may be my eyes, but I have found that red dots are good out to about 50 meters or so, but with 3x the Burris is good out to 200-300 meters.
All in all, IMHO, a great optic for the money. One more thing about the Burris, since it is only 3x, it is still useful at close range and still very good at longer ranges.

 

[MikePaiN]

One of the main concerns I had was adding top weight to the M&P Sport, I also wanted simplicity, so I topped it with a TRS-25. I realized after one range trip a red dot isn't going to do this rifle justice. I knew it needed a proper scope, but I still wanted to minimize weight and complexity. After a long search I finally found the right solution at the right price.
The new Nikon P-223 3x32 BDC Carbine scope got ordered this morning, too bad I'm going to have to wait the back order
The P-Rings looked like a good match so I ordered with those.

Check out the specs on this little gem....
http://www.opticsplanet.com/nikon-p-223-3x32-bdc-carbine-rifle-scope.html

 

[DNS]

My Sport wears a four power Bushnell Banner and the front scope ring has a rail on top of it. On the rail is a Center Point laser which is good out to two hundred yards at night and activates off a pressure pad.
Hogs worst nightmare.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Personally, in think a laser is pointless if you have a high-quality red-dot. The Aimpoint CompM3 is an excellent choice. You should also look at the Aimpoint PRO. It is a basically a 2 MOA dot CompM3 packaged with the QRP2 mount, and represents an excellent value. I own a PRO, and it is a fantastic optic.

Agreed on the laser being a waste.

Get a quality red dot, and that will cover you for 0-300 yards (and beyond). I run an Aimpoint Micro on my AR.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Not a waste depending on its use.

 

[meanmrmustard]

My feeling on the laser is this: Following recent "Armed Citizen" columns in the Rifleman magazine, I have come across a few incidents where the appearance of a red dot on BG's body was enough to make him quickly reverse gears and beat a retreat. It does have a way of saying, "I am armed and prepared, and your demise is imminent".

My intention is to use the Aimpoint or open sights for plinking (primarily), and the laser only close-in if a defense situation arises. In that case, my wife will be pointing the Ithaca as well if we're both in the house.

Speaking of lasers, have you looked at the Crimson Trace Railmaster?

 

[wnycollector]

I have an AR set up for HD. My 14.5" BCM is topped with an Aimpoint Pro and a Streamlight Polytac LED attached to my AR using a VTAC Mount.

 

[HavelockLEO]

As far as Aimpoints go, the only one I like is the PRO, I run ACOG's and Leupolds on everything else


If I ever get another Aimpoint it'll be the PRO

 

[meanmrmustard]

As far as Aimpoints go, the only one I like is the PRO, I run ACOG's and Leupolds on everything else


If I ever get another Aimpoint it'll be the PRO

Did you whiten that roll mark yourself? Actually looks good.

 

[HavelockLEO]

Yes'sir by hand using my own technique

 

[meanmrmustard]

Yes'sir by hand using my own technique

May I inquire as to what that was? I too have an M&P and like their crest. What you've done looks nice.

 

[HavelockLEO]

Get a white paint marker (a new one with a virgin tip is best), plastic handled cotton swabs (Walmart brand are good), a good clean shop rag, and some lacquer thinner.

Clean the area you want to high-lite with the thinner and let it dry thoroughly.

Then crack open the paint marker and get the paint flowing to the tip as per the instructions.

Next go over the engraving until the indentions are filled (You'll have to re-wet the paint marker tip per the instructions a few times to completely fill the engraving). And it doesnt matter if you get paint onto the finish of the lower in the design thats supposed to be the background color or around the edges of the design.

Now let the paint set up until its tackie to the touch and not completely dry.

Then get out your cotton swabs and get one end soaked in the thinner and start to gently whisk it over the painted area. The paint will smear once the thinner is applied, but thats no big deal.

You need to work slowly and use new swabs once you notice the paint building up on the one youre using.

You might also have to re-coat shallow parts of the engraving as the paint can be whisked out easily by wet swab. This isnt anything to get upset about, it happens no matter what you do, its just a matter of re-painting and working slowly.

Last you'll have to take a wet swab and go over the entire area to get the paint that was smeared over the anodizing as you cleaned the paint from the design area.

There you go, long hand, how I do it. It takes some time to get the hang of it, but once you learn the touch for the shallow places and how wet you need to get the swabs its all gravy from there.

Hope this helps.

 

[Still Shooting]

I am also impressed by the engraving highlights - looks like I'll have to stop at the hardware store on the way home from church tomorrow AM...