New M&P40c; another lemon from S&W?

[Trey Veston]

I bought a S&W M&P40 compact back in 2007 as my primary CCW and it was wonderful. Reasonably compact and carried 10 rounds of .40 S&W. I never officially bench tested it for accuracy at 25yds, but it always delivered 1" or so groups at 7yds and I actually shot an unbelievable 40yd 3-shot group of 1" once. Loved it!

I ended up selling it and trying other guns for CCW. Most recently an XDS 40 which will regularly give me sub 2" groups at 25yds. But, it only holds 6 rounds.

So I snatched up a NIB S&W M&P40c with night sights for $349 a couple of weeks ago. Did some impromptu shooting and it returned some impressive 7yd groups. I was very happy.

Then I decided to load some new self-defense carry rounds using 165gr Speer Gold Dots and 7.0gr of Ramshot Silhouette powder. I use 6.0 grains behind RMR plated bullets for my GSSF match ammo and it does very well in my Glock 35.

Went to the range today to wring out the pistol with my new carry load and results were unimpressive. Best I could get was 4"...



But then it got worse. I shot a 5-shot group at 25yds using a rest and my preferred carry ammo; Hornady 165gr Critical Defense ammo. 9" and all over the target.



Now, I know some guns really prefer a certain bullet weight and accuracy can really be affected by shooting too heavy or too light of a bullet. But my old M&P40c seemed to digest whatever I fed it.

This new pistol has been 100% reliable and most importantly, the 10yd groups shot off hand with my CCW reloads today did 1". Perfectly acceptable. At typical self-defense ranges, it is outstanding.

But that awful group with the Hornady load and the sub-par groups with my reloads are troubling.

It's evoking bad memories of my S&W 9mm PC Shield back in 2015 that delivered 12" groups at 25yds and after S&W replaced the barrel, would only do 8".

I will be loading up some 180gr and 155gr recipes to see how it does, but so far I am not impressed.

 

[Tallball]

If you can find a load that it will shoot accurately and well, then it's NBD. If you can't, then it is a big deal.

 

[thomas15]

find a handload that works, then use that. Might take some trial and error.

 

[Trey Veston]

4" groups could be a preference for a different bullet weight. 9" groups may be a barrel issue. I went ahead and ordered a replacement barrel for it from Midway. The $70 spent on the barrel is worth it for my peace of mind and it will be interesting to see if it is any better.

 

[1KPerDay]

S&W barrel or aftermarket?

 

[Trey Veston]

S&W barrel or aftermarket?

S&W. I think Storm Lake is the only people that make an aftermarket barrel for the M&P40c and they have gone downhill lately. Bought out by the same people that ruined Remington and Marlin.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I don’t get it. How is this situation the fault of the gun? The gun isn’t supposed to shoot well the load that you like. You are supposed to like the load the gun shoots well. Keep looking. After all, it only takes one.

 

[Trey Veston]

I don’t get it. How is this situation the fault of the gun? The gun isn’t supposed to shoot well the load that you like.

Like I said before, any handgun that shoots a 9" group with premium self-defense ammo has an issue. When gun magazines evaluate a pistol, they shoot 3-4 different types of ammo through it and the group sizes tend to vary around an inch or so. Maybe a couple of inches in extreme cases.

Going from 4" to 9" is unheard of and cause for concern.

 

[Narwhal]

I have an M&P 40c that is pretty accurate for a small gun.....it will hold 4" groups at 25 yards with atlanta arms match ammo. If you can afford it, try to buy a box of Atlanta arms 180gr ammo and see what it does. Do you have another similar sized gun you can shoot back-to-back with it? Compare the groups between the two pistols if so. If it's still bad have someone else shoot it. If it's still bad then send it to S&W or get rid of it IMO.

I've found that my M&P 40's and M&P 9 2.0 are equal in accuray to H&K's and glocks in my hands.....and that's going to be about 4" groups at 25, shooting supported, limitation being my personal lack of skill, as a glock/hk is probably mechanically capable of 2" groups at 25.

Also, it is going to be kind of rough shooting a short slide gun with the factory combat sights at 25. I would be very happy with 4" 5 shot groups at 25 yards if I could get the gun to average that with a good load. I have always gotten best accuracy from the M&P 40's with the 180 gr bullets.

Here is a link to the kind of test I do to figure a pistol's accuracy when I get it:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread...ic-25-yard-accuracy-test-results-(vs-HK-P30L)

 

[Trey Veston]

I have an M&P 40c that is pretty accurate for a small gun.....it will hold 4" groups at 25 yards with atlanta arms match ammo. If you can afford it, try to buy a box of Atlanta arms 180gr ammo and see what it does. Do you have another similar sized gun you can shoot back-to-back with it? Compare the groups between the two pistols if so. If it's still bad have someone else shoot it. If it's still bad then send it to S&W or get rid of it IMO

I've found that sending a gun back to S&W these days is an exercise in futility.
I sent my PC Shield in 9mm back to them when it would only do 12" groups and the barrel had a bulge on it. They argued that it was not meant to be shot at 25yds. They replaced the barrel after 2 months and returned it with a barrel with a nick in the crown and it still would only do 8". I sold it.

I'm not saying that I'm a great pistol shot, but I am capable of getting 1" and 2" groups out of all of my other handguns. I've found letting other people shoot my guns results in larger groups than what I can get. Will try the new barrel and 180gr XTPs to see if things tighten up.

 

[Trey Veston]

Took a real close look at the barrel and don't see any obvious flaws...

 

[Narwhal]

I know what you mean about sending them back.....of the 10 S&W pistols I've owned, 4 have gone back at least once, and one of them went back twice. I've only sent one M&P 40 back for accuracy issues (a 5" pro), and they replaced the barrel which seemd to solve it. It is unfortunate that they replaced your shield barrel with another bad one. I don't hesitate to keep sending guns back to them, eventually they get it right. Randy lee of apex has written a ton of explanations on accuracy and the M&P. There can be tolerance stacking issues that were most evident on the 1.0 9mm, but can appear in other calibers as well.

 

[Trey Veston]

The first barrel in my Shield...





And then the hand-picked "good" one...