New M1 Garand load.... safe?

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Ok guys. Some of you may remember seeing my last thread concerning my M1 Garand loads from a couple of weeks ago. Well, now I've got a new load. Here it is:

168 gr Hornady BTHP
Greek brass
Remington primers
43 gr IMR4895

Cross referencing my Lyman and Hornady manuals, it seems 43 gr is OK. In the Lyman manual it is the staring load, in Hornady's it falls near middle of the road but on the lower end.

As for COAL, I have the bullet seated to 3.300" in the case. Again, both manuals suggest a max COAL of 3.340" but Hornady gives an COAL as 2.240" (I believe, don't have the manual in front of me ATM). That seemed a little deep so I just went with 3.300"

All things considered.. does any of this seem unreasonable or dangerous? Thanks guys.
 
That load seems fine to me. My go to is 46 gr of IMR 4064 or 4895 under a 150 gr bullet seated to the cannelure or to whatever the book says if no cannelure. That 2.24 number doesn't make any sense since I think the trim to length is 2.76. Keep in mind that with those Hornady boat tail bullets seating to the cannelure keeps the bullet way back from the lands. I still seat them that deep, but probably ought to rethink it myself.

Your 43 gr load under the 168 gr bullet seems ok to me. I'd hit the CMP forums as well for Garand specific opinions. There are some very knowledgable folks on both this and the CMP site.
 
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Should be safe and will probably cycle ok but it's a light load. I'd work up to 46-46.5 from your 43 grain charge looking for best accuracy and watching for pressure signs. Hornady does list 3.240" with the 168 BTHP in their Garand section.
 
Should work fine if a tad light, but if it runs your rifle reliably (it will IMO) it won't beat it up. A lot of guys run 47 grains 4895 under 168s. I run 44.5-45 grains. Works well in my rifles.

Generally speaking you want to run as long as will fit the magazine and feed/chamber reliably. I ignore any cannelure and don't crimp.
 
Yes, 3.240" is the Hornady length I was remembering. The bullets I'm seating have no cannelure, but I don't crimp anyways. So is my seating depth OK? I have read (and am a member of) the CMP forums, but I like to get fresh opinions. A breath of fresh air, so to speak. I loaded a blank down to Hornady's suggested OAL and it seemed really short to me so I backed it off to 3.300". Now that I know my powder charge is reasonable (albeit light), is my seating depth OK? Thanks again!
 
For decades now, (didn’t seem that long) I have been shooting a 168 Match bullet with 47.0 grains IMR 4895, military cases, milspec primers. I consider this a maximum load in my Garands, it is very accurate.

M1GarandTarget201212-1.jpg

M1190-6X5Dec09.jpg

195-7XM1GarandSFProne.jpg

M1GarandTarget193-6X4Dec2010.jpg

TulaPrimers194-6XGarandMatch1.jpg


I would recommend that you use milspec primers in your Garand: either CCI #34’s or Tula7.62. The Garand relies solely on primer sensitivity to avoid inbattery or worse, out of battery slamfires. While either are rare with commercial primers, slamfires are even rarer with mil spec primers. There is a reason the military specified a less sensitive primer with the mechanisms and it has to do with matching the kinetic impact energy of the firing pin with the probability of ignition of the primer. From what I gather, from M16 studies, the military considered a 1:10 million chance of a slamfire to be acceptable. Using more sensitive primers can drop that down to 1:2000 or 1:10000.

Always for the Garand, full length size your cases and use case gages to set up your dies. Always push the shoulder back 0.003” or simply size to gage minimum. If there is some obstruction, such as a fat case or a long case, bolt closure is delayed and the firing pin will rebound off the primer before the lugs engage the receiver recesses. Given a sensitive enough primer, ignition will occur. That is one reason I advocate using small base dies in this mechanism as a round closer to factory dimensions is less likely to bind during chambering. Always ensure that the primer is below the case head. You do not want anything but the firing pin hitting that primer, and that, after you pull the trigger. If you load single shot, use a SLED or lower the bolt to here before letting go. This will reduce the forward velocity of the bolt, and therefore, the firing pin.

IMG_3279Boltoneinchforwardofbackfollower_zps1ec72907.jpg

Get your hand out of the way as people have had their palms sliced through by the operating rod when their Garands slamfired in battery.
 
If your 43 is accurate and it cycles the action, stay with it. But i agree & load with the majority in that you'll find most of us are in the 46 to low 47 range
 
SlamFire

I was told in the commercial primers Winchester was a tougher one to use. If not being able to get Mil primers. Also suggested to me,using a primer pocket uniformer to assure even primer seating and make sure primer is below flush. Do you use a case gauge after resize and after finishing loaded rounds?
Should be beneficial info for the OP,and myself:) I was going to suggest against the Rem primer,but, see what you & others think. Thanks!
 
Alright, good information here. Thanks. I make sure that I REALLY seat that primer in its pocket. I check all primers and don't load the case with poser until the primer is BELOW flush. Just another question. I gauge all of my case lengths with calipers. I do NOT use brass that is too long (over 2.494") but some are right at maximum length. Is this a problem? Some are in the 2.48" range. When I single load, if I push the cartridge into the chamber manually then gently ride the bolt until it meets the cartridge.. it won't lock. Even nudging the op rod handle won't lock it. But if I let the bolt ride freely from about half of its total travel length, it chambers the cartridge fine. Is this normal?..
 
I trim mine to 2.484". You're full-length sizing, right? Do you have a case gauge? You might want to get one. Lyman/Wilson make a good one for checking case headspace quickly. Note that they do NOT check diameter and are not "chamber gauges." they just quickly confirm proper shoulder setback, which is really important in Garands and other semi-auto rifles. several people whom I trust say they size theirs so it's flush with the lower/min mark on the gauge. I generally try to but I get some springback, so as long as it's between the min/max steps I call it good (as long as they chamber properly).
 
I'm probably using the wrong term. Bumping the shoulder of the case back away from the shoulder of the chamber so it doesn't headspace too tight/long and prevent correct chambering. In bolt guns this is less of an issue, but in auto guns you want to set it back (I've read) at least 3 thousandths. One of the reasons you size the cases after firing is they stretch lengthwise at the web, with the net effect that the distance from the back of the case to the shoulder increases with every firing, tightening case headspace.

I'm NOT an expert and have minimal experience with rifle reloading so someone correct me if I've said anything stupider than usual. :D
 
What is "shoulder setback"?

That's having your die screwed far enough down in your press (but not too far) to press the case shoulder back a little towards the bottom (case base) of the case. The way a case fits the rifle chamber is determined by the distance between the case base and case shoulder among other things. If the case base-to-shoulder measurement is longer than the respective dimensions of your rifle's chamber, the cartridge will not fit and your bolt will not fully close. Hope that helps.

Don
 
I was told in the commercial primers Winchester was a tougher one to use
.
I don’t recommend WLR anymore. At the turn of the century Winchester changed from a nickel plated primer to a brass finish. I called Winchester, when they made the change and found that they had made their primers “more sensitive to combat off center firing pin hits” . This was not the direction one should go with primers in Garand actions and it turned out real bad in my AR15’s. The new brass finish WSR’s pierced something awful in my AR15’s and dished a handful of firing pins. I had to cut my loads back by at least 1.5 grains in 223. In the end I used CCI #41’s and life was good again.
If not being able to get Mil primers.
Of the primers I have used CCI 200 seem to have harder cups but commercial primers are always going to be more sensitive than mil spec. The primers you don’t want to use are those that are advertized as “more sensitive”. Federals are the worst in this regard and Federal match primers are the most slamfiring primer ever in the Garand mechanism. I have been using Tula7.62, they were advertized as mil spec, and they are an excellent primer. I never used Remington so I don’t know anything about them. I wish Winchester and Federal would make their mil spec large rifle primers available to the public, but, for what ever reason, they don’t.

Do you use a case gauge after resize?

Always use a case gage to set up your sizing dies, but remember, case gages only measure this distance between shoulder and base. It does not measure “fatness”. Once you get case gages you will see that different brass, sized a different amount of times, will have a different headspace and you must adjust the die to compensate.

This is a typical "Go- No Go" Case gage:
ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg
CartridgeHeadspacegagelinedrawing.jpg
35Whelenheadspacegage.jpg
The difference between “Go” and “No Go” is around 0.006”, this picture ought to tell you that is this is barely the thickness of a line. If you are a real lucky person you may get there by sizing to the shell holder and adding a quarter turn, but I never have. I had to use gages to determine the correct headspace on every sizing die I have ever used. Sometimes I have had to grind material off on the bottom of the die as the dies were too long and would not push the shoulder back to "Go".

Wilsongagebetweengoandnogage308brass.jpg

and after finishing loaded rounds?

Gene Barnett made me some reamer cut gages. These were gages cut from barrel stubs using an actual chamber reamer. Incidentally Frank White of Compass Lake http://www.compasslake.com/ made me one for 223, cost about $35.00. Prices are probably more, worth a call if you want one. I found something interesting with a gage that was a correctly dimensioned rifle chamber. Cases would drop in after sizing, but seat a bullet and it turns out gravity was an insufficient force to get the loaded case to drop in flush. This lead to a test of all my sizing dies. Cases sized in my standard sizing dies and my Bonanza match die were all an interference fit after the bullet was seated. Cases sized in my small base die dropped in flush. Seating a bullet must buckle the case somewhere and it is noticeable in 30-06 cases. Not so noticeable in 308 or 223, but it was a real phenomena in 30-06. So, I think gaging after loading is a good check that everything is still OK.
 
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