patrick jones
Member
If Slick Willy were president it would be a left wing plot with Linbaugh and Hannity going nuts. How do you dues paying NRA members feel about this
are you a NRA member?
pat
are you a NRA member?
pat
New Orleans Begins Confiscating Firearms (merged w/ "You're all gonna love this one")
- Thread starter Jake
- Start date
- Status
spartacus2002
Member
I'm paying toward a Life Membership, but since NRA's position is "pray for people to do the right thing, and maybe we'll get a law passed one day if we suck up enough to TPTB," I'm about to call and cancel. My money would be better spent on a SAF or JPFO life membership.
Aguila Blanca
Member
I hope several lawsuits come out of this, and I pray that the result is favourable to the side of the Constitution.
I also hope for a couple of other things:
(1) I hope JPFO and GOA both see a huge increase in membership and financial support (and that the NRA sees a corresponding reduction in membership); and
(2) I hope an event of such profound significance may be the catalyst we need to germinate the formation of a viable third political party. Libertarian won't do it -- too quirky. I don't know what to call such a party. I'd like to call it the Constitution party, but that name is taken, by a bunch of more or less extremists. The America party? Maybe.
How about the Bill of Rights party?
I also hope for a couple of other things:
(1) I hope JPFO and GOA both see a huge increase in membership and financial support (and that the NRA sees a corresponding reduction in membership); and
(2) I hope an event of such profound significance may be the catalyst we need to germinate the formation of a viable third political party. Libertarian won't do it -- too quirky. I don't know what to call such a party. I'd like to call it the Constitution party, but that name is taken, by a bunch of more or less extremists. The America party? Maybe.
How about the Bill of Rights party?
ebd10
Member
I've said this on another board, the NRA stands for "Neutered & Risk Averse"
They haven't got the testicular fortitude to protest. They became a whimpering shell of their former selves 20 years ago when they allowed the 1986 ban on the new manufacture of automatic weapons to go through unnoticed. Spend your donations wisely, JPFO or GOA are much better "Investments". And I'm a Life Member of Never Rebel Again.
They haven't got the testicular fortitude to protest. They became a whimpering shell of their former selves 20 years ago when they allowed the 1986 ban on the new manufacture of automatic weapons to go through unnoticed. Spend your donations wisely, JPFO or GOA are much better "Investments". And I'm a Life Member of Never Rebel Again.
Looks like we'll have plenty to discuss over dinner in Texas next month:
Texas Riflemen's Clinic - October 29-30
Hope to see you there!
Texas Riflemen's Clinic - October 29-30
Hope to see you there!
dustind
Member
I think you are misinterpreting the reasons for those opinions. People are against looting because it violates the rights of the property owners, not because it is illegal. It is the same reason we are against gun confiscation, it violates people's rights.
Those in favor of shooting the looters (like myself) where talking about the people breaking into homes and businesses to steal valuables, not those stealing food.
beerslurpy
member
I dont think that the NRA has really dropped the ball, YET. The initial press release was one of mild indignation, warm feelings towards victims and overall concern for the situation. Basically, it was boilerplate to let us know that they know about it.
Right now they are weighing potential outcomes and deciding what action to take or not take. They will then take whatever action they feel will be most advantageous. It hasnt happened yet, but it will happen soon. Mark my words.
The real NRA response will be crafted so that it gives one message to the core membership (the guys who send them about 100million a year and volunteer countless hours for activism), another message to the general public (including casual gun owners) and another message to the politicians. All these groups must be reached and they must be reached in such a way that most benefits the membership and the political status of the NRA.
Anyone disagree? The real play will be 2-3 days from now.
Right now they are weighing potential outcomes and deciding what action to take or not take. They will then take whatever action they feel will be most advantageous. It hasnt happened yet, but it will happen soon. Mark my words.
The real NRA response will be crafted so that it gives one message to the core membership (the guys who send them about 100million a year and volunteer countless hours for activism), another message to the general public (including casual gun owners) and another message to the politicians. All these groups must be reached and they must be reached in such a way that most benefits the membership and the political status of the NRA.
Anyone disagree? The real play will be 2-3 days from now.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
The fight will come later, in the courts and at the ballot boxes.
Unfortunately, it's too late for the folks in NO. What we have
to do is make sure that those responsible are punished in such
a way that the next time there is an incident, those in power
will be afraid of the repurcussions.
That's all we have.
We have to hang in together, this is a scary glimpse of our future.
We will likely get only this one chance to change it.
Unfortunately, it's too late for the folks in NO. What we have
to do is make sure that those responsible are punished in such
a way that the next time there is an incident, those in power
will be afraid of the repurcussions.
That's all we have.
We have to hang in together, this is a scary glimpse of our future.
We will likely get only this one chance to change it.
dustind
Member
I have been reading Interdictor's blog since the beginning of this disaster. His blog is getting a *lot* of traffic, and so is this issue.
He reported a few days ago that power is back online in many parts of the city. The waters have been receding for days. Utility workers and other private groups are inside busily working to restore things. The streets seem incredibly safe due to all of the NG and police patrols that have been going on for several days. It also seems that the last few people are being rescued.
I think it is way too late to say there is an emergency that warrents kicking out residents. Things are getting better in the city every day, politics not withstanding.
He reported a few days ago that power is back online in many parts of the city. The waters have been receding for days. Utility workers and other private groups are inside busily working to restore things. The streets seem incredibly safe due to all of the NG and police patrols that have been going on for several days. It also seems that the last few people are being rescued.
I think it is way too late to say there is an emergency that warrents kicking out residents. Things are getting better in the city every day, politics not withstanding.
sssteinkamp
Member
I just got this:
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_04-2005_09_10.shtml#1126317466
[David Kopel, September 9, 2005 at 9:57pm]
New Orleans Gun Confiscation is Blatantly Illegal:
On Monday, I'll have an article on the New Orleans gun confiscation on
Reason.com. But there's one part of the story that's too important to wait:
the confiscation is plainly illegal. I realize that there are plausible
arguments that the house-to-house break-ins and gun-point confiscations
violate the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United
States Constitution, as well as numerous provisions of the Louisiana
Constitution, including the right to arms. Indeed, the confiscations are
inconsistent with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and with
natural law. But my point is much more specific. The particular Louisiana
statute which allows emergency controls on firearms also clearly disallows
the complete prohibition being imposed by the New Orleans chief of police.
The relevant statute is La. Stat., title 14, § 329.6. It provides:
---
§329.6. Proclamation of state of emergency; conditions therefor;
effect thereof
A. During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting,
catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the territorial limits of
any municipality or parish, or in the event of reasonable apprehension of
immediate danger thereof, and upon a finding that the public safety is
imperiled thereby, the chief executive officer of any political subdivision
or the district judge, district attorney, or the sheriff of any parish of
this state, or the public safety director of a municipality, may request
the governor to proclaim a state of emergency within any part or all of the
territorial limits of such local government. Following such proclamation by
the governor, and during the continuance of such state of emergency, the
chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision affected by the
proclamation may, in order to protect life and property and to bring the
emergency situation under control, promulgate orders affecting any part or
all of the territorial limits of the municipality or parish:
(1) Establishing a curfew and prohibiting and/or controlling
pedestrian and vehicular traffic, except essential emergency vehicles and
personnel;
(2) Designating specific zones within which the occupancy and use of
buildings and the ingress and egress of vehicles and persons shall be
prohibited or regulated;
(3) Regulating and closing of places of amusement and assembly;
(4) Prohibiting the sale and distribution of alcoholic beverages;
(5) Prohibiting and controlling the presence of persons on public
streets and places;
(6) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of firearms, other dangerous weapons and ammunition;
(7) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of explosives and flammable materials and liquids,
including but not limited to the closing of all wholesale and retail
establishments which sell or distribute gasoline and other flammable products;
(8) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of sound apparatus, including but not limited to public
address systems, bull horns and megaphones.
(9) Prohibiting the sale or offer for sale of goods or services within
the designated emergency area for value exceeding the prices ordinarily
charged for comparable goods and services in the same market area at, or
immediately before, the time of the state of emergency. However, the value
received may include reasonable expenses and a charge for any attendant
business risk in addition to the cost of the goods and services which
necessarily are incurred in procuring the goods and services during the
state of emergency, pursuant to the provisions of R.S. 29:701 through 716.
B. Such orders shall be effective from the time and in the manner
prescribed in such orders and shall be published as soon as practicable in
a newspaper of general circulation in the area affected by such order and
transmitted to the radio and television media for publication and
broadcast. Such orders shall cease to be in effect five days after their
promulgation or upon declaration by the governor that the state of
emergency no longer exists, whichever occurs sooner; however, the chief law
enforcement officer, with the consent of the governor, may extend the
effect of such orders for successive periods of not more than five days
each by republication of such orders in the manner hereinabove provided.
C. All orders promulgated pursuant to this section shall be executed
in triplicate and shall be filed with the clerk of court of the parish
affected and with the secretary of state of this state.
D. During any period during which a state of emergency exists the
proclaiming officer may appoint additional peace officers or firemen for
temporary service, who need not be in the classified lists of such
departments. Such additional persons shall be employed only for the time
during which the emergency exists.
E. During the period of the existence of the state of emergency the
chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision may call upon
the sheriff, mayor, or other chief executive officer of any other parish or
municipality to furnish such law enforcement or fire protection personnel,
or both, together with appropriate equipment and apparatus, as may be
necessary to preserve the public peace and protect persons and property in
the requesting area. Such aid shall be furnished to the chief law
enforcement officer requesting it insofar as possible without withdrawing
from the political subdivision furnishing such aid the minimum police and
fire protection appearing necessary under the circumstances. In such cases
when a state of emergency has been declared by the governor pursuant to
R.S. 29:724 et seq., all first responders who are members of a state or
local office of homeland security and emergency preparedness, including but
not limited to medical personnel, emergency medical technicians, persons
called to active duty service in the uniformed services of the United
States, Louisiana National Guard, Louisiana Guard, Civil Air Patrol, law
enforcement and fire protection personnel acting outside the territory of
their regular employment shall be considered as performing services within
the territory of their regular employment for purposes of compensation,
pension, and other rights or benefits to which they may be entitled as
incidents of their regular employment. Law enforcement officers acting
pursuant to this Section outside the territory of their regular employment
have the same authority to enforce the law as when acting within the
territory of their own employment.
F. Notwithstanding the provisions of this Section, except in an
imminent life threatening situation nothing herein shall restrict any
uniformed employee of a licensed private security company, acting within
the scope of employment, from entering and remaining in an area where an
emergency has been declared. The provisions of this Subsection shall apply
if the licensed private security company submits a list of employees and
their assignment to be allowed into the area, to the Louisiana State Board
of Private Security Examiners, which shall forward the list to the chief
law enforcement office of the parish and, if different, the agency in
charge of the scene.
---
First, there are the procedural issues. According to subsection B,
emergency orders must be published in a newspaper in the jurisdiction; the
Times-Picayune is heroically publishing on-line, but I did not find any
evidence, on Friday night, of any publication of the gun confiscation
order, whose implementation had already begun on Thursday. According to
subsection C, an emergency order must also be filed with the court in the
relevant parish (impossible under current conditions), and with the
Secretary of State (whose office in Baton Rouge is entirely functional).
The Secretary's website gives no indication that a gun confiscation order
has been filed.
The more serious issue is the substantive one. The emergency statute
creates authority for "prohibiting" some things, and for "regulating" other
things. The statute uses "prohibiting" in subsections (A)4, 5, and 9. The
statute uses "regulating" in sections (A)3, 6, 7, and 8. Quite clearly the
legislature meant to distinguish "prohibiting" authority from "regulating"
authority. In the context of the statute, it is not plausible to claim that
"prohibiting" means the same as "regulating."
"Prohibiting" authority applies to the sale of alcohol, presence on public
streets, and the sale of goods or services at excessive prices.
"Regulating" authority applies to firearms, flammable materials, and sound
devices (such as megaphones). The "regulating" authority is undoubtedly
broad. But it is not equivalent to "prohibiting." The statute does not
authorize the New Orleans Police--abetted by the National Guard and the
U.S. Marshalls--to break into homes, point guns at people, and confiscate
every single private firearm--or every single private bullhorn or private
cigarette lighter.
Yet New Orleans' lawless superintendant of police, P. Edwin Compass, has
declared, "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns."
The Compass order appears to be plainly illegal. Under section 1983 of the
federal Civil Rights law, any government employee who assists in the
illegal confiscation would appear to be personally liable to a civil
lawsuit. Moreover, higher-ranking officials--such as the National Guard
officers who have ordered their troops to participate in the
confiscation--would seem to be proper subjects for impeachment or other
removal from office (and attendant forfeiture of pensions), depending on
the procedures of their particular state.
All police officers, National Guard troops, and U.S. Marshals take an oath
to uphold the Constitution and the laws. It appears that carrying out an
illegal order to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from homes would be
inconsistent with the oath, contrary to sworn duty, and perhaps a criminal act.
***
Shane
www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_04-2005_09_10.shtml#1126317466
[David Kopel, September 9, 2005 at 9:57pm]
New Orleans Gun Confiscation is Blatantly Illegal:
On Monday, I'll have an article on the New Orleans gun confiscation on
Reason.com. But there's one part of the story that's too important to wait:
the confiscation is plainly illegal. I realize that there are plausible
arguments that the house-to-house break-ins and gun-point confiscations
violate the Second, Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United
States Constitution, as well as numerous provisions of the Louisiana
Constitution, including the right to arms. Indeed, the confiscations are
inconsistent with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and with
natural law. But my point is much more specific. The particular Louisiana
statute which allows emergency controls on firearms also clearly disallows
the complete prohibition being imposed by the New Orleans chief of police.
The relevant statute is La. Stat., title 14, § 329.6. It provides:
---
§329.6. Proclamation of state of emergency; conditions therefor;
effect thereof
A. During times of great public crisis, disaster, rioting,
catastrophe, or similar public emergency within the territorial limits of
any municipality or parish, or in the event of reasonable apprehension of
immediate danger thereof, and upon a finding that the public safety is
imperiled thereby, the chief executive officer of any political subdivision
or the district judge, district attorney, or the sheriff of any parish of
this state, or the public safety director of a municipality, may request
the governor to proclaim a state of emergency within any part or all of the
territorial limits of such local government. Following such proclamation by
the governor, and during the continuance of such state of emergency, the
chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision affected by the
proclamation may, in order to protect life and property and to bring the
emergency situation under control, promulgate orders affecting any part or
all of the territorial limits of the municipality or parish:
(1) Establishing a curfew and prohibiting and/or controlling
pedestrian and vehicular traffic, except essential emergency vehicles and
personnel;
(2) Designating specific zones within which the occupancy and use of
buildings and the ingress and egress of vehicles and persons shall be
prohibited or regulated;
(3) Regulating and closing of places of amusement and assembly;
(4) Prohibiting the sale and distribution of alcoholic beverages;
(5) Prohibiting and controlling the presence of persons on public
streets and places;
(6) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of firearms, other dangerous weapons and ammunition;
(7) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of explosives and flammable materials and liquids,
including but not limited to the closing of all wholesale and retail
establishments which sell or distribute gasoline and other flammable products;
(8) Regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale,
transport and use of sound apparatus, including but not limited to public
address systems, bull horns and megaphones.
(9) Prohibiting the sale or offer for sale of goods or services within
the designated emergency area for value exceeding the prices ordinarily
charged for comparable goods and services in the same market area at, or
immediately before, the time of the state of emergency. However, the value
received may include reasonable expenses and a charge for any attendant
business risk in addition to the cost of the goods and services which
necessarily are incurred in procuring the goods and services during the
state of emergency, pursuant to the provisions of R.S. 29:701 through 716.
B. Such orders shall be effective from the time and in the manner
prescribed in such orders and shall be published as soon as practicable in
a newspaper of general circulation in the area affected by such order and
transmitted to the radio and television media for publication and
broadcast. Such orders shall cease to be in effect five days after their
promulgation or upon declaration by the governor that the state of
emergency no longer exists, whichever occurs sooner; however, the chief law
enforcement officer, with the consent of the governor, may extend the
effect of such orders for successive periods of not more than five days
each by republication of such orders in the manner hereinabove provided.
C. All orders promulgated pursuant to this section shall be executed
in triplicate and shall be filed with the clerk of court of the parish
affected and with the secretary of state of this state.
D. During any period during which a state of emergency exists the
proclaiming officer may appoint additional peace officers or firemen for
temporary service, who need not be in the classified lists of such
departments. Such additional persons shall be employed only for the time
during which the emergency exists.
E. During the period of the existence of the state of emergency the
chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision may call upon
the sheriff, mayor, or other chief executive officer of any other parish or
municipality to furnish such law enforcement or fire protection personnel,
or both, together with appropriate equipment and apparatus, as may be
necessary to preserve the public peace and protect persons and property in
the requesting area. Such aid shall be furnished to the chief law
enforcement officer requesting it insofar as possible without withdrawing
from the political subdivision furnishing such aid the minimum police and
fire protection appearing necessary under the circumstances. In such cases
when a state of emergency has been declared by the governor pursuant to
R.S. 29:724 et seq., all first responders who are members of a state or
local office of homeland security and emergency preparedness, including but
not limited to medical personnel, emergency medical technicians, persons
called to active duty service in the uniformed services of the United
States, Louisiana National Guard, Louisiana Guard, Civil Air Patrol, law
enforcement and fire protection personnel acting outside the territory of
their regular employment shall be considered as performing services within
the territory of their regular employment for purposes of compensation,
pension, and other rights or benefits to which they may be entitled as
incidents of their regular employment. Law enforcement officers acting
pursuant to this Section outside the territory of their regular employment
have the same authority to enforce the law as when acting within the
territory of their own employment.
F. Notwithstanding the provisions of this Section, except in an
imminent life threatening situation nothing herein shall restrict any
uniformed employee of a licensed private security company, acting within
the scope of employment, from entering and remaining in an area where an
emergency has been declared. The provisions of this Subsection shall apply
if the licensed private security company submits a list of employees and
their assignment to be allowed into the area, to the Louisiana State Board
of Private Security Examiners, which shall forward the list to the chief
law enforcement office of the parish and, if different, the agency in
charge of the scene.
---
First, there are the procedural issues. According to subsection B,
emergency orders must be published in a newspaper in the jurisdiction; the
Times-Picayune is heroically publishing on-line, but I did not find any
evidence, on Friday night, of any publication of the gun confiscation
order, whose implementation had already begun on Thursday. According to
subsection C, an emergency order must also be filed with the court in the
relevant parish (impossible under current conditions), and with the
Secretary of State (whose office in Baton Rouge is entirely functional).
The Secretary's website gives no indication that a gun confiscation order
has been filed.
The more serious issue is the substantive one. The emergency statute
creates authority for "prohibiting" some things, and for "regulating" other
things. The statute uses "prohibiting" in subsections (A)4, 5, and 9. The
statute uses "regulating" in sections (A)3, 6, 7, and 8. Quite clearly the
legislature meant to distinguish "prohibiting" authority from "regulating"
authority. In the context of the statute, it is not plausible to claim that
"prohibiting" means the same as "regulating."
"Prohibiting" authority applies to the sale of alcohol, presence on public
streets, and the sale of goods or services at excessive prices.
"Regulating" authority applies to firearms, flammable materials, and sound
devices (such as megaphones). The "regulating" authority is undoubtedly
broad. But it is not equivalent to "prohibiting." The statute does not
authorize the New Orleans Police--abetted by the National Guard and the
U.S. Marshalls--to break into homes, point guns at people, and confiscate
every single private firearm--or every single private bullhorn or private
cigarette lighter.
Yet New Orleans' lawless superintendant of police, P. Edwin Compass, has
declared, "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns."
The Compass order appears to be plainly illegal. Under section 1983 of the
federal Civil Rights law, any government employee who assists in the
illegal confiscation would appear to be personally liable to a civil
lawsuit. Moreover, higher-ranking officials--such as the National Guard
officers who have ordered their troops to participate in the
confiscation--would seem to be proper subjects for impeachment or other
removal from office (and attendant forfeiture of pensions), depending on
the procedures of their particular state.
All police officers, National Guard troops, and U.S. Marshals take an oath
to uphold the Constitution and the laws. It appears that carrying out an
illegal order to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from homes would be
inconsistent with the oath, contrary to sworn duty, and perhaps a criminal act.
***
Shane
www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k
odysseus
Member
I really hope so. None of these people should suffer in vain. Problem is, the media is giving this like 3rd page treatment now - nor really putting the outrage of this out there. The masses just don't know.
meathammer
Member
All I can say is I am disgusted with this entire situation. The video posted in this thread speaks volumes. Stealing. Period. I have a bad feeling that some of the more stubborn NO residents will die. (And you won't hear about it either.)
Forcing people from their homes. Kicking down doors, armed to the teeth (they aren't using force though).
The confiscation of cameras, camcorders makes it even more sinister. (Sorry, I don't buy into the "filming corpses" cop out.)
Scary situation indeed. I don't have anything else to say that wasn't already mentioned.
x 1000
--meathammer
Forcing people from their homes. Kicking down doors, armed to the teeth (they aren't using force though).
The confiscation of cameras, camcorders makes it even more sinister. (Sorry, I don't buy into the "filming corpses" cop out.)
Scary situation indeed. I don't have anything else to say that wasn't already mentioned.
x 1000--meathammer
meathammer
Member
I believe the authorities thought it would be too traumatic for people seeing media photos/video footage of friends and family members that have died.
It's amazing the footage got out of the door to door searches and the old woman being disarmed, tackled and dragged from her home by officers. Would have thought that tape would be taken.
--meathammer
Borachon
Member
I agree. I also agree with arresting...or shooting if they are violent...any looters who were stealing goods that could not be construed as being of a survival nature. I could forgive someone stealing rope and tackle,because that might be used to rescue people. But a TV set....? Nah....no real ambiguity there.
But many of our posters here were ready to blast anyone and anything that moved for their "illegality" in looting. Just wanted to let them know that if they'd lived in NO, and stocked up with a couple of cases of .223 and an AR-15 that they would now be no better...in the eyes of the law...than those looters. And, in fact, seemingly a whole lot worse...because the "holdouts" are doing this deliberately...not because of the hurricane factor per se.
I felt that many of our fellow posters were too quick to judge. I'm reminding them of that now that the shoe is metaphorically on the other foot.
I take no joy at all from any aspect of this situation. It continues to look worse and worse to me as time goes by.
Borachon
Member
Mexican and other troops activities
Taken from the Sun Herald online newspaper. The newspaper of the Gulf Coast of Mississippi.
The bold areas are my own. You'll pardon me for saying so...but these activites that I've highlighted don't seem EXACTLY like the type of rescue/aid help that I was envisioning for foreign troops.
Oh, and I saw them earlier tonight on TV. They are armed.
Sep. 9--ONBOARD THE ARM PAPALOAPAN -- The Marines have landed in Biloxi - the Mexican Marines.
And Dutch Marines as well.
For the first time since the 19th Century, Mexican troops landed Friday on U.S. soil, sent from the Mexican Navy ship ARM Papaloapan anchored near the USS Bataan. The Mexican ship's name means, "River of Butterflies."
Marines from Mexico, Holland and the U.S. are part of an international Hurricane Katrina cleanup effort building up on ships about 20 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. Four Canadian ships are on the way.
"Our President called George Bush and three days later we came here," said Oscar Martinez Pretelin, a fleet or admiral rank officer aboard the Papaloapan, a 440-foot-long U.S.-built troop landing ship. Vincente Fox is the president of Mexico.
"We are honored to help the United States," Pretelin told press and television reporters Thursday aboard the Mexican ship.
About 75 Mexican Marines landed Thursday on the beach just east of the Beau Rivage casino to begin cleaning up Biloxi, especially around schools and churches.
Mexican Marine Mario T. Rodriguez said he left a small city in the far south of Mexico to volunteer for the hurricane relief duty. He said he has a 3-month-old daughter with his wife at home.
"I am happy. I am very happy. The U.S. is so rich but even a rich country can need help," he said.
The Mexican Marines will be aided by Spanish-speaking members of the Bataan's crew as they work the devastated areas of Biloxi and Gulfport, said Journalism Chief Dave Fitz of the Bataan.
For the first time in the history of the Mexican military, women have been assigned a military mission, said Lt. Leonardo Tun Humbert of the Papaloapan.
Three female physicians and two nurses from the Mexican Navy are aboard the ship waiting to be assigned to hurricane relief work.
Lt. Ruben Pascual, 34, of Veracruz, Mexico, is a member of the Papaloapan's medical staff who will begin working today in the hurricane devastated areas.
"Our job is to give support to the people. We must support all the people who need medical help. We are proud to be of help," he said.
Sgt. Carmen Rodriguez Cruz, a 26-year-old nurse from Veracruz, is part of the history-making contingent of female Mexican military.
"We are trained to help and we will help," Rodriguez said through an interpreter.
The Dutch ship, the Van Amstel, is a heavily armed frigate that was pulled off a drug patrol near Aruba after Katrina struck on Aug. 29.
The Van Amstel's Lt. Commander Henk Suurveld, the ship's second in command, said his men will patrol the bay to make sure pleasure craft don't interfere with military rescue operations. A contingent of about 70 Dutch Marines also landed on the beach in Biloxi Thursday to clean up neighborhoods.
"The devastation is terrible. It is horrible. For us, job satisfaction is helping out in a situation like this," Suurveld said.
A minor culture shock for members of the Mexican Navy was learning that the commander of the Bataan, Capt. Nora Tyson, was a woman. The Bataan is an 844-foot-long ship equipped with six helicopters that began rescue operations in New Orleans the day after Katrina struck.
The ship was shifted to the Biloxi area on Thursday.
"We were surprised to find a woman commanding a ship," said Pretelin, the Mexican Navy fleet officer. "We found her very professional, very well mannered."
"It's the same hard job for a woman as it is for a man," said Tyson, with a smile, during an interview in her ship's headquarters.
"I have a very good crew. They are dedicated," she said. "And we'll stay as long as we're needed."
Taken from the Sun Herald online newspaper. The newspaper of the Gulf Coast of Mississippi.
The bold areas are my own. You'll pardon me for saying so...but these activites that I've highlighted don't seem EXACTLY like the type of rescue/aid help that I was envisioning for foreign troops.
Oh, and I saw them earlier tonight on TV. They are armed.
Sep. 9--ONBOARD THE ARM PAPALOAPAN -- The Marines have landed in Biloxi - the Mexican Marines.
And Dutch Marines as well.
For the first time since the 19th Century, Mexican troops landed Friday on U.S. soil, sent from the Mexican Navy ship ARM Papaloapan anchored near the USS Bataan. The Mexican ship's name means, "River of Butterflies."
Marines from Mexico, Holland and the U.S. are part of an international Hurricane Katrina cleanup effort building up on ships about 20 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. Four Canadian ships are on the way.
"Our President called George Bush and three days later we came here," said Oscar Martinez Pretelin, a fleet or admiral rank officer aboard the Papaloapan, a 440-foot-long U.S.-built troop landing ship. Vincente Fox is the president of Mexico.
"We are honored to help the United States," Pretelin told press and television reporters Thursday aboard the Mexican ship.
About 75 Mexican Marines landed Thursday on the beach just east of the Beau Rivage casino to begin cleaning up Biloxi, especially around schools and churches.
Mexican Marine Mario T. Rodriguez said he left a small city in the far south of Mexico to volunteer for the hurricane relief duty. He said he has a 3-month-old daughter with his wife at home.
"I am happy. I am very happy. The U.S. is so rich but even a rich country can need help," he said.
The Mexican Marines will be aided by Spanish-speaking members of the Bataan's crew as they work the devastated areas of Biloxi and Gulfport, said Journalism Chief Dave Fitz of the Bataan.
For the first time in the history of the Mexican military, women have been assigned a military mission, said Lt. Leonardo Tun Humbert of the Papaloapan.
Three female physicians and two nurses from the Mexican Navy are aboard the ship waiting to be assigned to hurricane relief work.
Lt. Ruben Pascual, 34, of Veracruz, Mexico, is a member of the Papaloapan's medical staff who will begin working today in the hurricane devastated areas.
"Our job is to give support to the people. We must support all the people who need medical help. We are proud to be of help," he said.
Sgt. Carmen Rodriguez Cruz, a 26-year-old nurse from Veracruz, is part of the history-making contingent of female Mexican military.
"We are trained to help and we will help," Rodriguez said through an interpreter.
The Dutch ship, the Van Amstel, is a heavily armed frigate that was pulled off a drug patrol near Aruba after Katrina struck on Aug. 29.
The Van Amstel's Lt. Commander Henk Suurveld, the ship's second in command, said his men will patrol the bay to make sure pleasure craft don't interfere with military rescue operations. A contingent of about 70 Dutch Marines also landed on the beach in Biloxi Thursday to clean up neighborhoods.
"The devastation is terrible. It is horrible. For us, job satisfaction is helping out in a situation like this," Suurveld said.
A minor culture shock for members of the Mexican Navy was learning that the commander of the Bataan, Capt. Nora Tyson, was a woman. The Bataan is an 844-foot-long ship equipped with six helicopters that began rescue operations in New Orleans the day after Katrina struck.
The ship was shifted to the Biloxi area on Thursday.
"We were surprised to find a woman commanding a ship," said Pretelin, the Mexican Navy fleet officer. "We found her very professional, very well mannered."
"It's the same hard job for a woman as it is for a man," said Tyson, with a smile, during an interview in her ship's headquarters.
"I have a very good crew. They are dedicated," she said. "And we'll stay as long as we're needed."
Can'thavenuthingood
Member
Would rather see our Marines down there helping and patroling, however comma, Marines from any nation are good to have on your side.
They sent their best.
Vick
They sent their best.
Vick
I can't agree. I don't consider Mexico a "friendly" country, and having their troops on our soil is going to encourage the worst elements in the governments (and press, and pressure groups) on both sides of the border.
I'm not a tinfoil hat, black helicopter and blue-helmet kind of guy. Nevertheless, the presence of Mexican troops on U.S. soil is going to create a precedent that people inimical to American sovereignty are going to cite over-and-over... to my profound regret, and the regret of others, I'm sure.
I'm wondering if anyone will go to the D.C. Circuit court to file some kind of action against these foreign troops operating on our soil. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the precise angle to take, but this all must be illegal.
I'm not a tinfoil hat, black helicopter and blue-helmet kind of guy. Nevertheless, the presence of Mexican troops on U.S. soil is going to create a precedent that people inimical to American sovereignty are going to cite over-and-over... to my profound regret, and the regret of others, I'm sure.
I'm wondering if anyone will go to the D.C. Circuit court to file some kind of action against these foreign troops operating on our soil. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the precise angle to take, but this all must be illegal.
JohnBT
Member
"Anyone disagree? The real play will be 2-3 days from now."
Maybe by then, but I was initially thinking 2-3 weeks or 2-3 months. I don't have any experience filing suits in Federal court and don't know how long it takes to do the research necessary to file the initial papers.
I suppose they could find a Federal judge to sign an order to make them stop the gun grabbing. Then the other side would find a judge to counter it and nothing much would be accomplished.
I do know that you don't win by rushing into something of this magnitude unprepared. Think about it, if you'd been injured in a car wreck Wednesday, would you want your lawyer to rush into court the first week and sue for damages or would you want him or her to properly prepare your case?
John
Maybe by then, but I was initially thinking 2-3 weeks or 2-3 months. I don't have any experience filing suits in Federal court and don't know how long it takes to do the research necessary to file the initial papers.
I suppose they could find a Federal judge to sign an order to make them stop the gun grabbing. Then the other side would find a judge to counter it and nothing much would be accomplished.
I do know that you don't win by rushing into something of this magnitude unprepared. Think about it, if you'd been injured in a car wreck Wednesday, would you want your lawyer to rush into court the first week and sue for damages or would you want him or her to properly prepare your case?
John
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Well apparently not all police are confiscating firearms or the process has stopped based on this Washington Post report:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9261560/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9261560/
RealGun
Member
This type of reasoning assumes a judge would make time or that the case would be accepted for a hearing. Whose jurisdiction is it anyway?
sssteinkamp
Member
The Washington Post article...is just terrible...
That's a total fabrication. The Lakeview area is *still* under water, and thats where most of the wealthiest homes are. Some folks just love to play up the race thing. As a native New Orlenian, I am disgusted at all of the media coverage in its entirety.
Shane
Katrina Blog: www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k
That's a total fabrication. The Lakeview area is *still* under water, and thats where most of the wealthiest homes are. Some folks just love to play up the race thing. As a native New Orlenian, I am disgusted at all of the media coverage in its entirety.
Shane
Katrina Blog: www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k
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