New shooter, general firearms questions

[vladamiraaron]

Hello, I lurk here and there and have come to ask some questions.

First, I've asked these questions on a few manufacturer forums and was roundly chastised by forum regulars due to the questions concerning their favorite firearms. So I've come here to freely ask without ruffling the feathers of "true believers".

I've shot since I was little but have only owned a .22lr Marlin model 60 since 1988, and 1968-9 S&W Model 10-5 .38 spl since 1992, and a WWII bring back (by my grandfather) Arisaka type 38 in the family since just after WWII.

I now have owned or recently owned the same .22 Marlin, SW 10-5, a 582 series Ruger Mini 14, Ruger .380 LCP, NAA .22wmr revolver and a NAA Guardian .380 acp, 1943 Mosin Nagant, H&R Pardner Pump 12 Guage.

Only one of those firearms has been reliable, consistently without fail and that is the old SW Model 10-5.

Is this normal in the firearms world?

Every one of those firearms has been back to the manufacturer for repair (major repair). The NAA 22 wmr, the LCP and the H&R were un fixable after having gone back multiple times.

The NAA hand aft repeatedly broke off inside the frame, the barrel shot loose, the front right shot loose and fell out off of the barrel... It had a non concentric reamed barrel, non existent rifling partial way through, forgot the crown on one of the replacements etc. after having been repaired. Many other people were having similar issues which were reportedly corrected at the factory according to a gunsmith in a written statement from the company. After the third time going back they swapped it out with a Guardian. No issues excepting its sights shot loose and one fell off, but since they were Novak's I applied some lock tight and re-installed them and no other issues since. Their customer service was top notch and replacing the pistol with an entirely different type was above and beyond but this was months of annoying shipping hassles, broken firearms, wasted ammo and range fees, gas from multiple trips etc.

The H&R would double feed every other time and would fail to extract from day one. The smith at Cabela's examined it and determined the same and sent it back. When it arrived repaired, the same issues ensued. I took it back and Cabela's checked it out again, determined the same issues and offered a refund which I took.

The LCP would fail to extract and stove pipe from day one. Took it back to Cabela's and they determined the same thing. Sent it back to Ruger and they fixed it and returned it. After that it would FTF every other round. I took it back to Cabela's and they looked it over, determined there was a problem and offered a refund trying to sell me an "updated" version. I declined the updated version and accepted the refund.

The Mini 14 broke its firing pin twice and on the only two times I took it to the range (brass cased PMC 62 gr). Ruger took it back, replaced the pin and sent it back. Happened again and I contacted Ruger, who took it back, replaced the entire bolt and stated they "repaired" the slide. Why did they have to do this on a new rifle? The hand guard has cracked under the front lip at the gas block due to recoil and has now partially fallen apart and the rear sights shoot loose occasionally even after having been disassembled, de greased and blue lock tight applied. Nothing is more frustrating than sighting in the irons, installing an RDS and sighting it in at 50 yards, plinking for fun and then when you've run out of ammo, discovering the rear sight is loose and thus zero has been lost, necessitating that you now have to purchase more ammo, remove your now zeroed RDS, re-zero the irons after yet again cleaning and applying lock tight, and then re-zeroing the RDS and hoping it doesn't happen a fourth time. Again, customer service top notch but WTH!?

:banghead:

I'm venting a bit but also just curious if this is par for the course?

Good god don't ever bring up issues with any of the Rugers or the NAA's on their message boards or you will be swarmed, berated and shouted down in very nasty and condescending fashion.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Inazone]

It seems that you've had an awful run of bad luck for relatively few firearms total. However, I can think of several issues over the years:

Walther G22 rifle - Charging handle sheared off after warranty expiration. Repaired by Walther on my dime.

Walther P22T - Numerous parts would loosen and "walk off" under that massive .22LR recoil. Replaced lost parts, sold the gun.

Taurus PT92 - Piece of feed ramp cracked off. Gun was bought used with an extended warranty; barrel replaced for free.

Bersa BP9cc - Feed issues and a couple of hang-fires. Repaired to my satisfaction under warranty.

Steyr M9 - Extraction issues. Steyr sent me a replacement extractor, but performance has improved since then without actually installing the new extractor.

S&W Bodyguard 380 - Fired out of battery after roughly 50 rounds. Ejected magazine (destroyed) and split grip vertically, nicked me with debris on the eyebrow and upper lip to add injury to insult. Returned to S&W, who claimed only to have replaced "faulty" magazine, but sure looks like a brand new gun. Included work order and a call to customer service provided no further details, but repaired/new gun shoots fine.

As may be apparent from the above list, I'm not shooting high-dollar guns. However, I've seen some catastrophic failures on much nicer hardware than mine.

 

[drband]

Quite a run of bad luck there! The only failure I've had was a failed recoil spring plug on an RIA 4" 1911. Made one call, received new part 4 days later. Good to go.
Used guns have a history that you don't know. Maybe that's all that's going on here. Still, that's a lot of problems for you to contend with & no, I don't think it's normal.

 

[bang_bang]

My Rugers are excellent, including my LCP. Ruger used to have excellent customer service, but I've never used it. Guns are kinda like cars, they rise/fall in value, some are notorious for failures and others for rugged reliability. Even a new high end vehicle occasionally is a lemon, and other times it might be from a misunderstanding on usage. You can't run diesel in a gas engine, and sometimes you can't feed cheap ammo in a premium firearm. To each their own though, glad you got a refund from Cabelas. Says a lot about their customer service.

 

[vladamiraaron]

All of these were brand new firearms.

It just feels surreal, the short time frame and every purchase and problem and major problems at that.

I'm not abusive, I run decent ammo.

Cabela's doesn't advertise refunds on firearms, and explicitly state no refunds on firearms, but in their gun vault/ museum area where their gunsmith works, they stated if a new firearms goes back a second time to the factory they offer a refund. Excellent customer service.

I finally got out to the range a couple days ago with the mini 14, the first time since it got back from Ruger's repair center, and the stupid sights shot off the receiver again... hence my venting.

I obviously am not going to complain about WWII era rifles because, well, they are really old and well used. As is the Marlin Model 60...

 

[ford8nr]

WOW, that's a string of bad luck or I don't know what.
I'm probably jinksing myself, I shoot and shoot a lot. Can't remember my last failure...had some Ruger BX25 mags that had feed problems during a competition - my fault, had 100's of rounds through them without cleaning. Had a enbloc clip stick in a Garand once during a Vintage match - only sticks one way, my guess? Slightly bent out of spec. Thrown away.
Other then that over 40+ years of shooting can't think of much, especially sights falling off of guns.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

What went wrong with the Arisaka type 38? Did you complain to the emperor?

 

[2bfree]

I have bought 5 new firearms in the last 4 years. 2 Rugers, 1 SW, 1 CZ, 1 Beretta. Every one has had not one problem, and they have been shot a lot. Maybe I am just lucky.

 

[Dr. Sandman]

VA-
I have many more guns than you have, but I too have had problems with stuff working "right outta the box"!
Every Rem 870 that I have bought new since 2008 has had shell extraction problems.

Bought a new Browning Semi Auto in 7mm rem mag. Also had cartridge extraction issues. Had to send it back into the factory. I have not tried it since I got it back because 1. I have moved on and 2. It was such a pain to clean it.!!

Bought one of those polish PPS43c deals and the firing pin will not consistently set off my surplus 7.62x39

Wife has a new S&W SSR (686?) that will not fire in SA on one of the cyclinders but will fire DA on all of them? WUWT?

I have been through 3 different night vision scopes from optics plant. They were all terrible and was able to return them.

That's all the stuff that I can think of off the top of my head, But a reliable gun out of the box is a treasure to hold on to. Caveat Emptor!!

 

[230RN]

Emperor. Heh. Good one.

I've had bad guns, good ones, bad cars, good ones, [STRIKE]bad wives, good ones,[/STRIKE], good whiskey, bad whiskey. Most of the time, even though you try to control for stuff like that, it's just the breaks of the game.

But you seem to have had a "statistically significant" <ahem> run of bad luck.

O, futuna, velut Luna.

Terry, 230RN

 

[Traffer]

There is only one thing that MIGHT account for these coincidences that I can think of off hand. Could you be taking a very cold gun out and firing. Or in some other way changing the temperature of the gun dramatically in short periods of time? I mean like below zero cold? I live in Wisconsin and have seen the effects of very cold steel being stressed or very quickly warmed up. It is far more dramatic than people realize. Other than that, this is an amazing "run of bad luck" like everyone else has stated.

 

[Grumulkin]

I've had many guns of which many were used. The record:

1. A broken extractor on a cheap single shot Marlin 22 LR after some use.

2. The front sight departed a new Desert Eagle in 50 AE a couple of times.

3. A broken hammer return spring on a well used Ruger Redhawk.

4. A weak hammer spring on a newish Taurus revolver.

5. A terrible lightly used Blaser R 93 barrel replaced with a new one by Blaser.

 

[taliv]

"New shooter"

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

Guns fail. That's why we practice malfunction drills. Usually malfunction drills don't involve the handles or sights falling off. My advice would be to refactor your collection into a smaller number of higher quality guns.

 

[vladamiraaron]

Nope nothing out of the ordinary.

Bought the NAA NIB and after the first month I was at the the range, cocked the hammer and the cylinder didn't turn and the hammer locked halfway back. After pulling the cylinder, I was able to de-cock the hammer. The hand aft that turns the hammer was missing and had sheered off.

I called NAA, they paid shipping, replaced the hand aft, main spring and barrel. They sent it back and the new barrels sight was canted, the barrel riffling was missing partial way down the barrel and the reaming (bore) was not centered in the barrel and it was not crowned as the previous barrel had been. I took it out and shot it and the front sight fell off from the recoil. Its a small sliver that is pressed vertically in the barrel. I noticed the sight slot was milled off center and canted and that the front sight wouldn't press back in very well. I fired it a few more times and the barrel started backing out of the frame (unscrewing). I called NAA and they again took it back, replaced the barrel and the main spring.

I asked why they replaced the first barrel on a brand new gun when the hand aft was the only thing broken and they stated they always replace the barrel and main spring as a matter of course whenever a revolver is sent back.

I got it back with a Trijicon night sight installed on a new barrel as an apology. The new barrel had good rifling and the bore was centered and had been crowned just like the first one.

I purchased a factory fit 22lr cylinder from them, new extended boot grips and a couple of holsters figuring it was just an anomaly with the firearm. After all, their customer service was fantastic as are their reviews. I took it to the range and on the second cylinder the hammer bound when cocking it and the hand aft was visibly bent to the side. I pulled the cylinder to disarm the fire arm, de-cocked the hammer, and tipped the gun to the side where upon the hand aft fell out of the slot as it had sheered off inside the frame again. Called NAA, they took it back and then exchanged it for another firearm. This was from Febuary to June of last year.

H&R (Remington) stated to Cabela's that they had to re-stake a part that has something to do with the feeding of the shells. Didn't fix it. Cabela's smith looked at it and stated it had been manufactured improperly and rather than send it back offered and exchange or a refund but recommending a refund. Stating, "sometimes, you get what you pay for". Pardner pumps were 179.00 made in China.

The LCP was the same, Cabela's stated they had a newer version that was striker fired that they would exchange for or I could have a refund.

Mini 14, I just called Ruger directly and they said no problem and gave me an RMA and shipping account number. Mini-14 forum at Perfect Union has many threads concerning firing pin breakage and entire bolt problems in the 582 series( I'm far from the only one in this regard). Many folks there have stated that Ruger has been replacing a number of 582's with 583's over extraction issues and that there was a bad run of firing pins during the 582 series.

That Smith Model 10 just keeps running through it all.

The NAA Guardian has been flawless excepting the Novak rear night sight walking off from recoil the first time shooting it. I slid it back in the dovetail with some lock tight, applied some to the set screw that had backed out and no more problems.

The Marlin has a plastic buffer that breaks in the receiver over time and it's an old gun so that was going to happen at some point.

 

[stchman]

I must be the luckiest person in the world, I RARELY have problems with my firearms. I own a Mini-14 580 series and it shoots anything I put into it besides Federal AR223.

Usually firearm malfunctions are a result to poor cleaning and not using good magazines. I prefer to use factory mags unless one is using a 1911, AK, or AR. If one keeps their firearms clean, lubed, and use quality mags, they are normally trouble free.

 

[vladamiraaron]

I've only been really shooting and enjoying firearms for a little over a year now. Thats pretty new and there was so much I didn't know.

Owning a .22lr rifle and an old revolver and rarely shooting them does not a seasoned shooter make.

 

[Mk VII]

Some Marlins have a plastic trigger mech housing which has a tendency to crack when you tighten the guard screw up (which everyone does, eventually). Gun on the left solves this with a custom-made duralumin housing made as a three-off in the aerospace industry.

 

[stonecutter2]

Just bad luck. If you've had enough trying for a certain firearm, fix it and sell it and keep trying your luck

Things do go wrong, not usually so fast in my experience, but these are machines after all, and made by humans, so problems occur.

 

[taliv]

not that it's a big deal, i just thought it was curious. most people on the internet describe themselves as experts as soon as they pick a brand they like.

good luck finding a gun that doesn't break. again, i think the ones you mentioned are a little sketchy. it's pretty obvious when you compare them to something like a S&W, that they're not that well made. still, the rate you've described is either very unlucky, or something about the way you're shooting them is causing a higher than normal failure rate. possibly a little bit of both?

 

[230RN]

That Smith Model 10 just keeps running through it all.

Ditto here, 10-5 once owned by a cop.

NRA Newborn Baby condition. I take real good care of it.

Six million made, probably 5,999,999 still operating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_10

 

[Ed Ames]

That is unusual enough that I would be looking for "environmental factors". As in you, your family, how you store them, where you are getting them, etc..

Out of 180 guns, I've sent three back to the manufacturer and had two others that probably should have gone back but it was easier/cheaper to just fix them. I've also had to do maintenance, and I've broken guns (e.g. yesterday I broke my p3at hammer spring), but that's what happens when you use mechanical devices.

 

[vladamiraaron]

Thanks for listening and the conversation. I'm just frustrated.

It's not environmental:
I really do take fantastic care of all that I own and store and use them properly. They are kept locked and clean and I only shoot quality ammo.

I also purchased NIB from either Cabela's or a LGS that's been in business for a good long while.

I'll take the advice to purchase quality firearms.

I knew the the Pardner was a cheap firearm, but they get good reviews so I took a chance... I blame myself for that one.

The Marlin was inexpensive and has a lot of plastic.

The Ruger LCP and Mini-14 I would consider decent quality. I've even used the Mini-14 with 62 grain Federal Fusion deer load for deer. It groups really well with 62 grn Federal Fusion and shoots well.

I've got a thing for pocket guns and revolvers and really liked aesthetics of the NAA's. I was lead to believe they were and are a quality firearm. The Guardian .380 they swapped for the revolver is reliable mechanically.

Anyway, it sounds like some of you have had multiple issues, usually with used firearms and it is more likely the more time you've been collecting and shooting. Others haven't had any issues to speak of. And I've just had a bad experience.

Thanks again.

 

[Liberty1776]

I just bought a brand-new Marlin 60, stainless with a laminated stock. It HAD been my dream .22. I virtually NEVER buy new firearms, but made an exception. The front sight hood will not stay on, and the gun only can shoot at most 3 rounds before it misfeeds and stovepipes. the Ruger 10-22 stainless synthetic I got at the same time works flawlessly, with the same ammo...

 

[Twiki357]

Sounds like you have good relationship with ol’ Murphy.

That’s understandable about the reliability of the 10-5 [and its predecessor M&P] which is why I have a number of them.

The Rugers seem to have an excellent reputation. I only have two, a mark III that I have never had a problem with other than it’s a pain to clean and an older mini30 that is just a poorly designed assembly with horrible rear peep sight.

I have an NAA mini revolver in 22LR that’s been problem free.

I probably have guns from a dozen or so other manufacturers and have never had any problems with any of them other than the above mentioned Rugers. Don’t know squat about any of the others you listed. Almost forgot a Beretta revolver that’s a piece of junk as is Berettas warranty and customer service.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I just bought a brand-new Marlin 60, stainless with a laminated stock. It HAD been my dream .22. I virtually NEVER buy new firearms, but made an exception. The front sight hood will not stay on, and the gun only can shoot at most 3 rounds before it misfeeds and stovepipes. the Ruger 10-22 stainless synthetic I got at the same time works flawlessly, with the same ammo...

Welcome to the Marlin/glenfield 60 club that I joined in 1969 at age 13. I wasted half my youth clearing jams from that misable excuse for a gun. I literally threw it away.
Still waiting for the OP to tell us his problems with the 6.5 Jap he inherited.