New to reload .45ACP

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MYANCEY

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I am using LEE 45ACP die set and looked for the reloading data for the bullet type and powder I am using, Titegroup powder and Hornady HAP 230gr, CCI300 primers. After I sized the case and reloaded the bullet the reload has a small ridge where the bullet is pressed to. The factory loads don't have that ridge there. What am I doing wrong? I chambered the rounds in my glock and it chambered OK but it don't look good. It is hard to find load data for my set up like the O.A.L. Where can I find the OAL for this bullet?
Thanks guys, I am new to your forum.
 
The ridge is normal.

I may remember wrong, but 1.150 to 1.155 rings a bell for that bullet.

Bottom line is whatever feeds well in your gun. Start long (1.260) and go shorter if needed.

Welcome to THR
 
Does Hornady list the specs. for their bullet in their reloading manual? That would be the first place I'd look. (Mine is out in my loading room and it's cold here...)
 
The ridge is normal.


yep, what you are seeing is the ridge created by the neck tension on your bullet. If your bullets are the correct size and the cartridges feed fine in your firearm there is nothing to worry about.





It is hard to find load data for my set up like the O.A.L. Where can I find the OAL for this bullet?

Info like this is not hard to find at all if one has the proper manuals. Where did you get a load recipe that did not give a OAL?

BTW....the Hornady manual says 1.230 for your bullet.
 
Did you get the Lee taper crimp die? If it is Mr. Lee's do it all seating/crimping die, you need to use it to only seat, then crimp later with a taper crimp die for best overall results.
 
New to reload .45ACP
Mr Ancey -
Welcome to THR and Reloading !!

After I sized the case and reloaded the bullet the reload has a small ridge where the bullet is pressed to. The factory loads don't have that ridge there. What am I doing wrong? I chambered the rounds in my glock and it chambered OK but it don't look good.
So your reloads have the "coke bottle" look with a reduced diameter waist, right? That's normal. That's how the die maker reduces the case mouth to retain the bullet. The ammo doesn't have this when new because the cases haven't been resized. You might get a different "look" from another brand of dies. It's all in how the dies are designed and constructed. Not a problem. ;)

I am using LEE 45ACP die set and looked for the reloading data for the bullet type and powder I am using, Titegroup powder and Hornady HAP 230gr, CCI300 primers. It is hard to find load data for my set up like the O.A.L. Where can I find the OAL for this bullet?
You are not finding any load data because this is NOT a "happy" load. I very much suggest you, as a new reloader, stick exactly to the loads you either find in your reloading manual or find on one of the powder maker's web sites. In this case TG is distributed by Hodgdon who has load data on their site.

What's wrong with the load is that you're using a fast powder with a very heavy bullet. As has been said on this board, "that's like trying to move a bowling ball with a baseball bat." In addition to that, TG has a high nitro content and so the load range is VERY narrow. That along makes TG a much less forgiving powder. In other words, one measuring slip-up and your gun could be toast.

Is the load allowed? Why certainly, experienced shooters use it everyday. Is TG a great powder? Why certainly. Millions of shooters use it. It's very popular. However, that does NOT mean it's a great powder for a novice to start off with by any means. Friend, I would highly suggest you go back to your reloading manual and stay with the published loads you find there for at least the first 6 months or so. Get several thousand reloads 'under your belt' before you venture off the "radar screen". You are, in effect, driving in places for which there is no road map. Capishe?

Secondly, I might even go so far as to suggest that whomever suggested this bullet-powder combination is no great friend. Or maybe they just didn't realize how new to reloading you are. What ever. Again, I urge you to stick closely to the published loads you find in your manual.

All the best. ;)
 
Not a happy load?

The HAP is a XTP without a notched jacket. Go ahead and use XTP data. The proper OAL for this bullet is 1.200" to 1.230". Use 4.3 to 5.2 grains of TG.
 
Thanks guys for that info it is a great help. I load for my 600yd .308 and 6.5-284 all the time and have very good luck but like I said I am new to pistol reloading and I DON'T wont to have any errors because of the gun toast thing. If TG is not the best podwer to use please tell me. I also have some bullseye, power pistol. I did load some hornady 230FMJRN with bullseye. But it meters bad to me so I thought I would try something differant. I loaded 5.0gr of bullseye with them 230gr hornadys FMJRN and set the OAL to 1.260 and it feeds OK but I have not been to the range yet. I also went to a gun show today and got some 200gr FMJHP and I thought I would load them up also.. Again thanks for all the help!!
 
MYANCEY, welcome to THR.

The Hornady HAP 230 gr FMJ RN has more pointed nose profile than the more rounded traditional RN profile to provide ballistically efficient profile. As been posted here countless times, the best OAL is the one that reliably feeds/chambers well in your pistol/barrel from the magazine.

First determine the max OAL by dropping a dummy round (no powder/primer) into the barrel out of the pistol. Then incrementally decrease the OAL until it feeds/chambers reliably from the magazine when you manually release the slide. You want to use the longest OAL that feeds/chambers well so the bullet engages the rifling sooner to generate more consistent chamber pressure (same principle as rifle loading but for semi-auto pistol, we are more concerned with reliable feeding from the magazine).

Once you determined the OAL that feeds/chambers well, then select your powder/charge combination that produces reliable slide cycling and accurate shot groups. I have used various powders such as Bullseye, Promo/Red Dot, Green Dot, WST, W231/HP38, WSF, HS-6 for 200/230 gr 45ACP with good success, but my personal favorite is W231/HP38. For 230 gr bullet, 5.0 gr of W231/HP38 will produce less snappy recoil than 5.0 gr of Bullseye and will burn cleaner.
If TG is not the best podwer to use please tell me.
As rfwobbly posted, Titegroup is not a favored powder for 45ACP. Although Titegroup is popular among match shooters for higher pressure 9mm and 40S&W, it is dirty burning powder for lower pressure 45ACP with narrow load range.
 
Thanks for that info, So I found that I have a 1lbs of power pistol Is that little better then tite group? The only other thing I have in house is bullseye.
 
Yes I have 3 reload manuals, sierra, lyman 49th, lee2nd, Why I ask is most of you guys have found the best powder combo because you reload .45ACP all the time . I reload 1-3K A YEAR OF .308 bacause I shoot long range benchrest all the time, and Yes I am new to the pistol reloading, So I my sorry if I bothered you guys. I wanted to get it right the first time...
 
Thanks for that info, So I found that I have a 1lbs of power pistol Is that little better then tite group? The only other thing I have in house is bullseye.
Yes use that Power Pistol. Makes for some good loads. My local FFL Loader has me started on Clays powder for .45acp. He says that is His most requested, soft shooting, clean, 230gr. acp. load. You may try+see what you think.?? Bill.
 
Yes I have 3 reload manuals, sierra, lyman 49th, lee2nd, Why I ask is most of you guys have found the best powder combo because you reload .45ACP all the time . I reload 1-3K A YEAR OF .308 bacause I shoot long range benchrest all the time, and Yes I am new to the pistol reloading, So I my sorry if I bothered you guys. I wanted to get it right the first time...
Hay...NO bother at all..I NEED to pick your brain on .308 loads?? My FFL should get in a new(to me) '83' Model 700 Varmint Special in .308. I thought I'd warm it up with some 165-168gr. bullets?? Please send me a PM and tell me what you think..Bill.
 
Yes, Power Pistol is more similar in burn rate as W231/HP38, Unique, Universal than Titegroup, which has faster burn rate as Bullseye.

Since you have Power Pistol, test load some rounds to see how they shoot.
So I my sorry if I bothered you guys. I wanted to get it right the first time...
Not at all! And that's why forums like this exist - so we can help guide each other towards loads that work well. I just got into loading .223/.308 and surely be picking a lot of brains here. I am starting out with Hornady 168 gr and H4895/Varget/RL15 for .308 and 55 gr FMJ with H335.
 
As rfwobbly posted, Titegroup is not a favored powder for 45ACP.

Oh yeah? Not favored? Maybe it should be favored...

Bill

We tested the Laser Cast bullets, along with Al's, Flight Line, Penn,
Carroll, Proofmark, NSK (when we were casting), All American, Magnus,
Bull-X (remember them), National, Western Nevada (or whoever they
were or are), Kees, and Meister.


We also tested the Zero (swaged), Star (new and old; new lube and
black), and Precision Delta (swaged). And, we will report on them separately.


All the cast bullets tested between 1.5 and 2" at 50 yards out of a
barrel tester. And, interestingly enough, did about the same, in a
Ransom Rest, out of three known good guns (Giles, Sams, & Masaki).
The best powder charges were:
4.2 Titegroup (best groups)
4.0 BE (next best)
4.2 WST (tied with BE and Titegroup)
3.9 Clays
3.8 VVN310
4.2 VVN320
4.6 W231
4.2 AA#2
3.8 BA10
4.5 HP38
And a host of others!
OAL: base to shoulder .928" +/-.002"
Primers: CCI, Federal, WLP (WLP and CCI were more consistent)
Crimp: .469" -.002" (set with the tallest case we could find)
Cases: Starline


Now, the swaged bullets, that was a different story! Both the Zero
and the Precision Delta, remember we are only talking about the 200
gr bullet, so don't get confused or start talking about the 185, all
shot 1" or better at 50 yards, out of the barrel tester! This was
pretty convincing! The Stars varied from lot to lot, with some in
the 1" groups, and some were worse than the cast 2" bullets. Then
they all were gun tested, the results were also excellent, none
greater than 1.25" (at 50 yards).


There is absolutely no doubt, that Swaged bullets out shoot
Cast. None whatsoever. It is true that no two guns are exactly the
same, and that the ammo should be tailored to the gun for optimum
performance. Further, some guns may like a cast bullet over a
swaged, or vice versa. You will have to decide what works best for
you. Since this game is mostly mental, the edge is in your head!


But, for me, and most of the gunsmiths out there, it is purely
mechanical. That is, the machines show us how we can squeeze every
drop of accuracy out of a given gun and load. They tell us what
works, and what does not. It is very cut and dry; with some,
although not very often, surprises. After that, it is up to the
shooter to do their part.


Now, just to set the record straight, there is nothing special about
the Laser Cast bullets. They do, however, use 1% more antimony than
most other casters. Their bullets use #72 bullet alloy, and most
others use #62 bullet alloy. This is transparent to the shooter.


Regards,
Neil
NSK Co
410-833-2100 | Fax: 410-833-2101
mailto:[email protected]
http://www.nsksales.com
 
I agree. I load lead RN bullets with Titegroup and have no problems whatsoever.
^^^+1 NavyLT. I think what happened was that this thread started with us thinking that the OP was a completely new hand loader. With this in mind, we were trying to steer him away from fast burning powders (You know--The Double Charge Thing??). Now that we know the OP has pulled the lever of a press a few times, his powder selection is not so limited. That's my 2c. worth anyway...Bill.
 
4.2 Titegroup (best groups)
4.0 BE (next best)
4.2 WST (tied with BE and Titegroup)
3.9 Clays
3.8 VVN310
4.2 VVN320
4.6 W231
4.2 AA#2
3.8 BA10
4.5 HP38
Well, that's probably why. 4.5-4.6 gr W231/HP38 is too light of a load for 200 gr 45ACP bullet weight. At least 5.0 gr would have produced more accurate shot groups. Same goes for 4.0 gr of Bullseye.

200 gr LSWC W231/HP-38 .451" 1.225" Start 4.4 gr (771 fps) 11,000 CUP - Max 5.6 gr (914 fps) 16,900 CUP
200 gr Speer JHP W231/HP-38 .451" 1.155" Start 5.2 gr (794 fps) 12,700 CUP - Max 5.9 gr (906 fps) 16,700 CUP

Generally, higher the chamber pressure, more efficient the powder burn and produces greater accuracy. This is current published load data for Titegroup. Some shooters may use Titegroup at low to mid 4 gr range, but that's below the start charge. So the comparison test, in effect, was testing possibly less accurate below starting charge loads, which I believe was not a fair comparison. If the test was done with more accurate 5.0+ gr W231/HP38/Bullseye, results may have been different. IMHO.

200 gr LSWC Titegroup .451" 1.225" Start 4.8 gr (877 fps) 13,400 CUP - Max 5.4 gr (957 fps) 16,800 CUP
200 gr Speer JHP Titegroup .451" 1.155" Start 4.7 gr (812 fps) 13,700 CUP - Max 5.2 gr (884 fps) 16,900 CUP
 
You do realize that the groups referenced are in the 1.5" range at 50 yards? If a hotter load of 231 was more accurate, it would have been used. As it stands, a hotter load of 231 was not more accurate. The most accurate load of 231, in fact, was less accurate than the most accurate load of Tight Group.
 
918v, my apologies. I haven't done below start charge load testing of Titegroup that much below as I only normally dip below about .2-.5 gr. Will need to give it a shot.

As to W231/HP38, only accurate below start charge I found was 3.8 gr with 180 gr 40S&W as most other 9mm and 45 loads burned dirty and less accurate than mid-high range load data.

As to THR, many here will caution against using below published start charge and I am one of few who has endorsed specified few (like the 180 gr 40S&W W231/HP38 load).
 
There are people who have been competing in Bullseye matches forever using 3.2grs of Bullseye under 185gr SWC running 10lb recoil springs in their 1911s.

99% of published start charges are not intended for safety, but to ensure reliable cycling. Reduce the spring rate and you can reduce the start charge.
 
Some powders do not download well, but some do with no problems. BE has proven it's self for years as one that can be downloaded safely. In general, fast powders download better than medium powders which download better than slow powders, and flake powders download better than ball powders, in general, but it's not set in stone.
 
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