New to reloading

[tcanthonyii]

Hello all,

I just turned 30 last week and as a Birthday/Christmas gift my Dad, Step Mom and one brother gave me a Lee Classic Turret kit and a Lee Deluxe .270 die set
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785993/lee-4-hole-turret-press-with-auto-index-deluxe-kit

I picked up shooting again after my divorce 3 years ago. Re found my love of pistols and shooting in general. I had guns while married but never really used them. I've since grown my gun hoarding problem from 3 guns then to 20.

Anyhow I've been wanting to get into reloading since I got back in. The savings alone are worth it to me. Plus I just sit my --deleted-- in my cheap basement apt and watch tv at night usually. I've started to read the Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee that was included in the kit. While very informative the guy is biased as hell and very proud of it. It's almost a fun read because this. Anyhow I've made these observations thus far and I'm only going to start chapter 7.

1. Reloading Rifle cartridges is more complex than straight walled pistol cartridges. I think I'll pickup a 9mm die set and start there instead, then work my way up to my .44 them my .270 and 30-30. Is this nonsense or am I on the right path?
2. Should I get the factory crimp die for the .270? From my reading I think I like the advantages but would rather get a consensus.
3. I need to buy the case length gauge for the .270 and really every die set I get to use with the cutter tool. For my .270 this is esspecially appropriate as most of my spent brass is from another .270 I recently sold.
4. I plan on taking a class locally that is being offered for basic reloading.
5. I already have a Easton vibrator shaker. What media should I use? Do I really need to clean my brass? For the rifle brass I'll be lubing the neck anyway and I could care less how my brass looks. Honestly I'm the guy who see's it.
6. Again rifle reloading really looks overly complicated to me. I'm sure it's not in practice but the bullet depth and working to achieve this for best accuracy is slightly above my pay grade with out having someone show me and help me with it.
7. A digital or good dial caliper is on the list of stuff to buy.
8. Is a digital scale really needed if I already have the lee safety scale? I do not intend to weigh each case but only spot check and weigh for setup. This is not my opinion solely on reading the book but on a lot of research believe that a happy medium and accurate charging comes from both volume and weight. Somewhere between the two is a happy medium.
9. I've learned I know nothing, which I feel is a good thing as I'm open to whatever suggestions will come my way.
10. Almost forgot. Lee powder charging die for the rifle cartridges and probably a funnel set as well for when I want to hand charge the loads.

So am I on the right track?

Thank you all for your help and support. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions going forward.

 

[J_McLeod]

I'm not going to respond to all of them, just the ones I feel experienced enough to answer.

1. I think that's a good idea. I started with 9mm, then moved on to 40, 357 and then 223. Straight walled pistol are definitely the easiest. Just be warned that with a single stage and an automatic pistol you'll shoot an hours worth of work in ten minutes or less.

3. You won't need the cutter or case length gauge for straight walled pistol.

4. If you post your location you may find someone willing to teach you one on one.

5. I use Zilla brand lizard litter, got the idea from another member here. It's the best of the several things I've tried. You don't really need to clean the brass, as long as you can see it well enough to spot flaws.

7. They can be found pretty cheap at midway, Cabela's or Harbor freight. No need to spend a lot on one.

8. I reloaded a few thousand rounds with only the Lee safety scale. It's a bit small, but it's accurate and it works. If you're short on money there's no reason not to keep it.

9. Get the Lyman #49 manual. It's much better than Lee's. I started out on the same kit, but upgraded to a turret and then progressive within a year because I was primarily using it for pistol. If you want to reload a lot of pistol rounds, you'll likely find that a single stage isn't fast enough. If you want high quality rifle ammo, you've got a great press for it.

 

[tcanthonyii]

Thanks.

I'm in Eastern Nebraska near Lincoln. I do have the turret press so at least I'm not stuck on a single stage. Although for rifle I can see myself possibly getting a single stage at some point. If I start shooting a lot of pistol ammo I'll for sure purchase a progressive. Right now I'm not shooting enough to justify one but that can change. I've been wanted to get into some steel shoots and 3 gun at the Grand Island/Hornady range.

 

[jwrowland77]

You sound like you may be military or prior military. I would say start with the ABCs of reloading. Read it a couple times and you should be good to go.

When I first started out, I started with 9mm and .223. As long as you go by the steps outlined in the ABCs book, you should be fine. Don't over complicate things. Take things nice and slow and you should be good to go. One big thing that has helped me is I found a local mentor, and older gentleman, that I am able to call or send an email and ask questions when I run into an issue. This has helped me on more than one occasion. Not so much that I was unsafe, but wanted to get a different view of things before I came to my own conclusion and judgement on the matter.

 

[tcanthonyii]

Nope. No military experience here. A life long Boy Scouter but no military.

I've hard of that ABC's book. I'll have to look it up. The Lyman 49 as well.

 

[J_McLeod]

I misread your post and thought you had the Lee Single stage kit. The turret is a great press. It can be a single stage or turret, and put out 100-200 rounds per hour once you get the hang of it.

 

[jwrowland77]

Yep the Lyman reloading manual is great as well. Good read.

 

[tcanthonyii]

Hey man join the club! I'm no better. I tend to gloss over posting --deleted--

ABC's of reloading is now downloading to my iPad as I type. It's my next read. My first "kindle" purchase and first ebook. Crazy for a guy who works on technology for a living.

 

[oldpapps]

I just turned 30 last week and as a Birthday/Christmas gift my Dad, Step Mom and one brother gave me a Lee Classic Turret kit and a Lee Deluxe .270 die set Happy birthday. My dad gave me an offset 'O' press by C&H for my 13th birthday and a new Remington 700 ADL, the first year for them.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/785...dex-deluxe-kit

I picked up shooting again after my divorce 3 years ago. Re found my love of pistols and shooting in general. I had guns while married but never really used them. I've since grown my gun hoarding problem from 3 guns then to 20.

Anyhow I've been wanting to get into reloading since I got back in. The savings alone are worth it to me. Plus I just sit my fat ass in my cheap basement apt and watch tv at night usually. I've started to read the Modern Reloading book by Richard Lee that was included in the kit. While very informative the guy is biased as hell and very proud of it. It's almost a fun read because this. Anyhow I've made these observations thus far and I'm only going to start chapter 7.

1. Reloading Rifle cartridges is more complex than straight walled pistol cartridges. I think I'll pickup a 9mm die set and start there instead, then work my way up to my .44 them my .270 and 30-30. Is this nonsense or am I on the right path? More complex? Well sort of, a few more things to keep track of when setting up but not much.
2. Should I get the factory crimp die for the .270? From my reading I think I like the advantages but would rather get a consensus. Not necessary but I think in some cases will make neck tension more consistent.
3. I need to buy the case length gauge for the .270 and really every die set I get to use with the cutter tool. For my .270 this is esspecially appropriate as most of my spent brass is from another .270 I recently sold. I've been loading for many, many years and don't have a case gauge. A caliper does the job and more.
4. I plan on taking a class locally that is being offered for basic reloading. Interesting, sound like a good thing.
5. I already have a Easton vibrator shaker. What media should I use? Do I really need to clean my brass? For the rifle brass I'll be lubing the neck anyway and I could care less how my brass looks. Honestly I'm the guy who see's it. Clean brass is more than for just looks. Grit from the brass can cause damage to the insides of you dies. Commercial 'corn cob' stuff or 'walnut' hull stuff is cheap and does a good job. I rattle my brass before inspecting and sizing, then after sizing (I use old fashioned RCBS grease type lub), I clean again in a water soap mix with steel pins in a rotary tumbler. This cleans the primer pockets and interior after the scale is broken.
6. Again rifle reloading really looks overly complicated to me. I'm sure it's not in practice but the bullet depth and working to achieve this for best accuracy is slightly above my pay grade with out having someone show me and help me with it. You are making it too complicated, it's not.
7. A digital or good dial caliper is on the list of stuff to buy. Not costly, get one.
8. Is a digital scale really needed if I already have the lee safety scale? I do not intend to weigh each case but only spot check and weigh for setup. This is not my opinion solely on reading the book but on a lot of research believe that a happy medium and accurate charging comes from both volume and weight. Somewhere between the two is a happy medium. A beam type scale does just fine. As long as you get consistent charges, powder dumping is ok.
9. I've learned I know nothing, which I feel is a good thing as I'm open to whatever suggestions will come my way. Know nothing is no bad habits, yet.
10. Almost forgot. Lee powder charging die for the rifle cartridges and probably a funnel set as well for when I want to hand charge the loads. The Lee charging die is used with a Lee powder measure. I have a couple for use on my progressive. As I must assume your are using a Lee die set on your turret, using the charging die makes sense.

So am I on the right track? Sound like you are doing well, keep it up.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Thanks for asking our advice

1. Reloading Rifle cartridges is more complex than straight walled pistol cartridges. I think I'll pickup a 9mm die set and start there instead, then work my way up to my .44 them my .270 and 30-30. Is this nonsense or am I on the right path?

Yes you are. However, in my opinion, the 44 Magnum is a little easier to work with than the 9mm. You can start out with low power loads, too, and not worry about whether you have enough power to cycle the action, nor worry too much about chambering. With a revolver, your fingers will tell you if you have the dimensions right.

2. Should I get the factory crimp die for the .270? From my reading I think I like the advantages but would rather get a consensus

.

Sure. It is not necessary, but having control over the neck tension on the bullet does contribute to the ultimate accuracy of the ammunition.

3. I need to buy the case length gauge for the .270 and really every die set I get to use with the cutter tool. For my .270 this is esspecially appropriate as most of my spent brass is from another .270 I recently sold.

I am ignorant on this point.

4. I plan on taking a class locally that is being offered for basic reloading.

Good idea.

5. I already have a Easton vibrator shaker. What media should I use? Do I really need to clean my brass? For the rifle brass I'll be lubing the neck anyway and I could care less how my brass looks. Honestly I'm the guy who see's it.

I loaded for decades, just wiping my brass down with a soft cloth or even paper towels. Now that I have a tumbler, my brass looks nicer, but shoots just the same. Clean brass, however, is easier to inspect.

6. Again rifle reloading really looks overly complicated to me. I'm sure it's not in practice but the bullet depth and working to achieve this for best accuracy is slightly above my pay grade with out having someone show me and help me with it.

No substitute for a good mentor.

7. A digital or good dial caliper is on the list of stuff to buy.

I like things that don't depend on a battery. My scales and calipers are mechanical.

8. Is a digital scale really needed if I already have the lee safety scale? I do not intend to weigh each case but only spot check and weigh for setup. This is not my opinion solely on reading the book but on a lot of research believe that a happy medium and accurate charging comes from both volume and weight. Somewhere between the two is a happy medium.

The Lee Safety Scale is accurate as any you commonly find. However, it is a trial to use if you are not used to it and especially if you don't know how to read a Vernier scale. It also only weighs up to 100 grains. If you want to weigh bullets heavier than that, you are out of luck.

It is much easier to use if you put it on a stable surfacre at eye level in a well-lit location.

The Volume-Weight debate is not as intense as it used to be, but keep in mind that most load manuals give charge weights in weight, but most powder shor downrange is actually meted by volume, whether coming out of a powder measure or scoops. (Recent tools such as the RCBS Chargemaster now dole out powder by weight, but at $300+ these are rare, but getting more common.)

If you want to use both methods in tandem (throw 500 charges by volume, then weigh them all and find 50 that all are the same weight - use those and dump the rest back in the powder keg) there is nothing to stop you. Except common sense. If you find NOTHING ELSE to fixate on to get good accuracy, go for it. But there are other, more fruitful things to tighten up on first. Concentricity, bullet alignment, Overall length, distance to the rifling, making your brass weight uniform (internal volume of the cartridges), stuff like that.

9. I've learned I know nothing, which I feel is a good thing as I'm open to whatever suggestions will come my way.

Well, we are full of them.

10. Almost forgot. Lee powder charging die for the rifle cartridges and probably a funnel set as well for when I want to hand charge the loads.

I like the Lee Auto-Disk (either the Pro or the Standard) for charging handgun. For high-performance handgun, careful use of scoops, scale, trickler and funnel. I would do the same for rifle rounds, too. But that's just me.

Lost Sheep

 

[45lcshooter]

Ive been reloading for over 10 yrs, and ive found that digital calipers or dial calipers work better than case gauge, because if you have an imperfection on a case you can measure it.

I was on some sites before i started reloading, and asking a lot of the same questions that the new folks are asking, and that is good. One of them was how do i get started, everyone said "ABC's of Reloading" I was just getting ready to buy it when a family friend came over and saw i was looking up reloading stuff, he said I'll show you want you need and etc. Its always nice to find a reloading buddy or friend to share ideas with, turns out, i didnt need the book, because within about 10 mins, i had his knowledge and even gave me some freebies to get me started. (A book can't give you 2 lbs powder, 1k primers, 100 30cal 150gr bullets, and case tools) lol. Since i have moved away from there, him and i still talk about receipes and new toys we have worked up loads for.

My suggestion would be get a few different manuals, good for cross referenceing, and different manuals have different powders. I have 8 manuals, but only about 2 of them get flipped open, unless i try a different powder that i have never had before. Also there are a lot of recipes online, that you can print off.

Enjoy reloading, more fun than sucking air!!!!

 

[trixter]

You might also look at ammoguide dot com. It is a pay site but the info is invaluable. I think it is 18 dollars per year.

 

[Searcher4851]

Welcome to reloading. First, I would say over all you're on the right track. You have good questions. There are always plenty of folks around here willing to answer questions you may have. There is also a wealth of information on this site.
You have already received good answers to all your questions. I just have a couple of things to add.
Question #1. Starting your reloading experience with pistol cartridges is probably the easiest route to take. There are fewer steps involved, and you will learn most of the basics reloading pistol. It gives you time to get used to the process in general, then adding the extra steps for rifle won't seem as overwhelming. For pistol reloading, you want carbide dies. Saves having to lube cases, and they're quite durable.
Question #3. You'll rarely ever have to trim pistol cases so you won't need the cases guages for pistol calibers.
Question #7. A good caliper is a must, and well worth the investment.
Question #8. A digital scale is not needed. I've been reloading over 30 years with a beam type scale, but I would probably upgrade from the little LEE scale, so whichever route you choose, go for quality. A good beam type scale will last a lifetime.
Question #9. You're in a much better place than the folks that think they know everything. The more I learn, the more I find out how little I know.

Good learning to you. Some of us find reloading to be an enjoyable hobby in itself. (with the bonus of being able to shoot more)

 

[GLOOB]

6. Again rifle reloading really looks overly complicated to me. I'm sure it's not in practice but the bullet depth and working to achieve this for best accuracy is slightly above my pay grade with out having someone show me and help me with it.

I've never much played with seating depth. I tend to make 'em at least longer than min OAL while assuring that:
they chamber easily without touching the lands
they fit in the mag
they have sufficient neck tension.

Or long enough to put the crimp where it is supposed to go, if I'm going to crimp.

This is more or less exactly the same thing you do with pistol.

Lubing and trimming the brass are the main differences between pistol and rifle. Not too complicated. The only other snafu you could run into is excessive headspace. And unless you buy brand new lapua/norma brass and will cry if it separates early, even this is something that you can leave for worrying until you actually see you have a problem.

 

[mcdonl]

I have a similar setup and I love it. I tend to use it as a single stage unless I am cranking out .45

I would also recommend that for each pistol caliber you get the autodisk, a carrier and a micrometer powder measure. This makes setup a breeze.

 

[wv109323]

I'll post but I did not read all the responses so there may be duplicates:
1.) Reloading for a rifle is no more complex than loading for a pistol. Case preparation is more complex for the rifle.
2.) The factory crimp is nice. I have been reloading for 30+ years and I got my first crimp die about a month ago. I have produced 1" groups - 100 yards out of nearly every rifle I own with out the die.
3.) Buy an accurate dial caliper and measure case length after resizing. Trim to length as needed. There are several ways to trim to length.
4.) I would go to ammosmith.com and watch the videos unless the class is free. Spend your money on reloading supplies. Shoot more.
5.) I am not familiar with the Easton Product. There is really no difference between corn cob and walnut media. There are some additives that will help both clean your brass. No you don't have to clean your brass but dirt on the brass can scratch your reloading dies.. Another alternative to an expensive vibrating or rotary tumbler is " water, dish detergent and citric acid. ( For the citric acid use lemon juice or a pack of Kool-Aid). Make sure the brass is dry before reloading. A couple days in the sun or your oven at 200 degrees will dry it out. The above will more than likely clean the inside of your brass better than a tumbler.
6.) Not difficult at all : Use a Dummy round ( NO Primer or Powder ) Seat the bullet in the case about .100 over recommended cartridge length. Try it in the chamber of the rifle the ammo is going to be fired. The bolt should not close and do not force it. Keep reducing the length of the cartridge until there is no contact between the bullet and the rifling. You may need to use a magic marker as there will be mutiple markings on the bullet and you will loose track of the multiple markings. Use the magic marker as a machinist would use Dykem blue. When the bullet does not touch the rifling when the bolt is closed measure the overall length of the cartridge, The optimum length of that bullet in that gun is somewhere around .015 to .030 shorter or .015 to .030 "off the rifling"
7.) But a caliper.
8.) No a digital scale is not needed. Use of a balance beam scale is good enough. Use it on a level surface but it is a good idea to calibrate the scale with a known weight to ensure it is accurate. If you have a good way to measure powder by volume that is O.K. also. I would not load to maximum with volume measuring. Back off 10 % in weight to give you a little leadway with your powder charges.
9.) We all at one time knew nothing about reloading. Read and watch quality videos on the web sites. Most of the manufacturers offer "how-to" videos. RCBS .Lee IMR Powder Winchester. The Lyman Reloading Manual has a lot of good basic reloading Information. Use more than one source for a load.
10.) Lee makes solid basic products. Don't use a bushing and accept it's listed weight. Verify it's weight by a scale before using. A powder funnel is a necessity to getting the powder in the case with out spilling it. If in doubt dump the powder and load the powder again. A loading tray is a good thing to use. After charging all the cases they can be visually observed to make sure all contain the same amount of powder. This will spot an excessive low or large amount of powder quickly.

 

[tcanthonyii]

Thanks guys! Lots of GREAT information here. As I get closer to buying components and and the die set for 9mm and 44 I'll peruse this again to make sure I"m up to snuff.

 

[readyeddy]

Carbide handgun dies don't require lube, but I recommend using lube for 44 mag. Not that it will get stuck, but it will require excessive effort without lube.

 

[greyling22]

The lee book is preachy, and I noticed that first off when I started reloading, but his load data in the back is my favorite to go do. I really like the layout. After many years of being exposed to other dies and reloading equipment, I tend to agree with Lee about his stuff for the most part. He has some really clever ideas, and he tries to contain costs. Sometimes they are too contained. His progressive presses are not very good. Conceptually they are great, in practice, the primer systems are problematic. Any time he talks about reloading in general and not specifically his products, there is a lot to learn there. The more I learn the more I understand from his book.

about reloading rifle: you probably have a bolt action .270 rifle yes? Forget full length sizing, lubing etc, use the lee collet die. It neck sizes only so you get fire formed cases for your gun, and you don't need to lube anything. Just deprime, trim, and neck size. They're wonderful. FCD is a bit of a tossup for 270. I would use one on the 30/30 since it is a tube fed gun. Trim your rifle brass, don't bother with pistol. It doesn't grow.

reloading for pistol: I hate reloading for 9. it's hard to do when using lead, and I'm too cheap to buy jacketed. Also, it's a tapered case and takes a lot more force to resize. Especially in a progressive. A little spray lube on your cases will help a lot. Loading 44mag will see more cost benefit anyway.

If you use zilla pet litter be sure to add some nu-finish car polish or something, it will help polish and decrease the time spent in the tumblr. Walnut media cleans better, but leaves a coating of dust on everything. (tossing in a dryer sheet cuts the mess a great deal) Corn cob does not clean as aggressively, but will make the cases shinier and remove the dust. If you use corn cob pret litter, it is too big and will get all stuck in your cases and you will be unhappy. (ask me how I know). Any media bigger than a BB no longer gets used in anything smaller than .40 smith.

If all you are going to weigh is powder, lee scale is great. but remember the 100 grn max. It's pretty easy to use and I like it. For rifle I trickle into it. EX: for a 55.4 grn charge, I set me scale for 55.4, then I set my powder dispenser for 54grn, drop it into the pan, then trickle powder in from an empty case until I balance. Then it goes into the sized, primed case.

Best of luck, ask lots of questions, NEVER RESEAT A PRIMER ON A LOADED ROUND and do not be afraid to throw a mis-made case away. Saving a 3 cent primer or using a shady 50 cent completed round is not worth blowing up your gun, losing a finger or your face. In fact, one of those $15 inertia bullet pullers that looks like a hammer is a great buy.

 

[tcanthonyii]

greyling -- I agree with you on the full length sizing except the brass I have was shot in another .270 that I sold so from what I've read I need to full length size it one time then go forward from there. At that point I plan to only neck size.

You're the first I've heard say 9 is a pain in the neck. My dad reloads 9 and hasn't said anything about it not being a problem. I'll have to ask him. (He lives 1500 miles away so he isn't much physical help here to show me how to do it) For 9, looking at the cheapest ammo I can find (Walmart federal 115 grain for 13 bucks) I can reload if I buy in bulk for around 7.5 a box. That's better than 5 bucks a box. In 400 rounds I will have paid for the die set. I've just been pricing stuff on midway. I'm sure there's cheaper places to get components. For 44 I think I was at 33% of new cost. .270 I was at 50%. All roughly.

ReadyEddy -- Thanks for that tip. I'm sure that will help me a lot.

One other question I've been pondering the past couple days. The Lee 270 set has the neck die and the full length die. Both have a tip in them. Are they both supposed to pop out the primer? Do both of them neck size? I ask because there are only 4 stations on the press. Right now I've got the disk setup for neck sizing, full length, powder and bullet seating. There's no space for the factory crimp die. Or am I missing something.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. They all really help. Tomorrow is pay day. I'm hoping to go grab some components locally tomorrow and Friday to do some initial playing around this weekend.

On a side note I've finished the Lee book and am on to the ABC's of reloading. Both excellent and IMO fascinating reads. Lee's explanation of loading for and making cast lead bullets was awesome. Not really my thing but very entertaining to read. The ABC book has a lot of history in it. I'm not usually a book work but I love these!

 

[readyeddy]

Both the full length and neck sizer decap the spent primers. The full length sizer is used when you resize brass fired from a different gun or when you load for semi auto. Once you fire brass from you bolt gun, use only the neck sizer die so that the brass is fitted to your chamber.

 

[horsemen61]

Congrats on joining us in this very fun hobby .

 

[greyling22]

you use one or the other sizing die. not both at the same time. 9 is only a pain if you try lead. and have a big beefy arm to resize with

 

[tcanthonyii]

I got the beefy arm and body weight to do it! HaHa. Honestly I want to try lead sometime but I"m not ready for it yet. The Lead chapters in Lee's book were extremely fascinating and I think I want to try casting and developing for lead sometime, especially in my 30-30. Just seems like a ton of fun!

Thanks for the info on the dies. That helps me a lot. It makes a heck of a lot more sense in my head now as well!

I'm picking up some of the beginning 9mm components tomorrow and Friday and hope to have some test loads done and tested by sometime Sunday. I"m thinking 100 rounds of 9 mm. 20 of 5 different chargings. Haven't decided on a charge yet. Lees book LIsts some V powders towards the top but wonder if I shouldn't start middle of the road with some accurate 5 or 7. And actually Accurate #7 wouldn't be terrible to experiment with my 44 mag either. It would give me some good medium range, not to hot loads.

Thoughts?

 

[FROGO207]

A better place to get supplies and components is Natchez Shooters Supplies (it's on the net). The thing about primers and propellant is the ~~$36 Haz-Mat fee on each order. Natchez will combine both on one order but that will ship separate from all the other stuff. Powder Valley is the place for Haz-Mat items for me. For now buy those needed Haz-Mat items in small amounts locally until you find what works then order a bunch on the net for more savings. I like IMR's Trail Boss for 45 Colt loads with any lead bullet BTW.