Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy Again
No, it's not just you Foto Joe, 44-40 can be a bit 'fussy' to reload. Lot's of folks think it is difficult, I just think it is a little bit 'fussy'. Step #1 is to always go a little bit slow. If you slam a 44-40 case mouth into the bottom of your sizing/decap die, you will probably crush the case mouth. As I said earlier, 44-40 case mouths are thin. The brass only averages about .007 thick at the case mouth, wheras 45 Colt usually runs about .012 thick at the case mouth. That's why 44-40 seals so well in the chamber, the thinner brass expands better at relatively low pressure to seal the chamber. The thicker brass of 45 Colt does not usually seal as well. So if your cases are not perfectly centered in the shell holder or shell plate, and you slam a 45 Colt into the bottom of the die, the more robust 45 Colt case will probably shrug off the blow with no damage, but if you do the same thing with a 44-40 you will probably ruin the case. So slow and easy does it with 44-40. If you feel the case bump the bottom of the die, stop and reposition the case.
Step #2 is to set your seating/crimp die very carefully. Lots of folks don't like seating and crimping the 44-40 in the same step, they seat the bullet with one die and crimp in the next station with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That work around works. The trick I learned for seating and crimping in one step is to set the seating/crimp die so the crimp forms just a hair short of the underside of the top of the crimp groove. With most seating/crimp dies, the crimp forms just as the shell finishes rising all the way into the die. If the die is set so that the crimp bumps into the underside of the top of the crimp groove as the ram pushes the shell all the way up, the thin brass at the case mouth cannot bite into the bullet. Something has to give. What usually happens is the case mouth and neck get shoved down a hair as the final crimp is formed, resulting in a bulge in the case under the bullet. Again, with a more robust case like the 45 Colt, the brass will just buldoze its way into the lead. But the thinner brass of 44-40 gives way. My trick is to leave just a hair of space between the top of the crimp and the top of the crimp groove. That way the crimp forms in the groove and does not get shoved down. Somewhere around .005 or .010 is fine for the gap. This may lead to a problem with Smokeless loads, because the crimp of a 44-40 is not terribly strong. It is possible for bullets to set back when the rounds are slammed forward by the magazine spring in a tubular magazine of a lever gun. Not a problem with Black Powder loads because the solid 'plug' of Black Powder under the bullet prevents it from telescoping into the case.
#3 is bullet diameter selection. The 19th Century standard for groove diameter of 44-40 was .427, although in truth groove diameter could vary all over the place back then. Today, many manufacturers are using the same .429 barrels that they use for their 44 Mag/44 Sp guns. So since optimum lead bullet diameter is .001 over rifling groove diameter, if you have a gun with a .429 barrel, you may be tempted to use .430 bullets in it. Unfortunately, most 44-40 die sets come with an expander plug designed for .427 bullets. Expanding the case mouth for a .427 bullet and trying to shove a .429 or .430 bullet into it sometimes creates enough friction that once again, the entire case mouth gets shoved down as the the bullet is shoved into the case. In this situation, with 'fat bullets' it is sometimes better to use the expander plug from a 44 Mag/44 Sp die set. This plug will be a couple of thousandths larger in diameter than the standard 44-40 plug, and will expand the case mouth a bit more so that a 'fat bullet' can be seated without causing too much friction as it goes down.
#4. Lastly, unfortunately with many 44-40 revolvers, the manufacturers have not always married up cylinder throat diameter and barrel groove diameter very well. For a while, Ruger was making Vaqueros with chamber throat diameters way down around .425, but they were using .429 barrels. No matter what size the bullet was, it got sized down to .425 as it came through the chamber throat, and then rattled down the .429 barrel without getting much purchase on the rifling. Most of these Rugers became much better shooters when their chambers were reamed out to about .429. Later Ruger production cured this problem. But the problem still persists with some revolver manufacturers with mismatched chamber throat and barrel groove diameters.
Sometimes you have to experiment a bit before you find the right bullet diameter for a particular revolver, and if the chamber throats are too narrow, some reaming may be in order. The same can be true of rifles to a lesser extent. There is no mismatch of chamber throats and rifling groove diameters, but groove diameter can vary. Of my five 44-40 rifles, three have groove diameters of .427 and two have groove diameters of .429. I have since compromised and use .428 diameter dead soft, pure lead bullets in all of them with good results. I think the soft .428 bullets are probably bumping up in diameter in the bore and grabbing the .429 rifling of my Henry just fine.
So yes, loading 44-40 can be a bit 'fussy' but it is not impossible.
P.S. Yes, I used to use Winchester brass exclusively for 44-40. Of all the case mouths I measured, Winchester had the thinnest. About .007 at the case mouth. This meant the most leeway if you needed to put a 'fat bullet', around .429 or .430, into the case. This could mean maybe .001 or so of leeway with a 'fat bullet' in a tight chamber. Yes, chambers can be tight. I had been loading 44-40 with Smokeless for a while when I first started loading it with Black Powder for my Uberti 1873. When I slugged the barrel, I found it was .427, right at the old 19th Century standard. But the chamber was fairly tight. I experimented with .427, .428, and .429 bullets. The tight chamber of the 1873 would accept ammo loaded with .427 and .428 bullets, but the case mouths were expanded just enough with a .429 bullet that they were a little bit stubborn to chamber. So I settled on .427 and everything was fine. Later on when I bought my Henry it slugged to .429, as most modern Uberti 44-40 rifles do. So I bumped my bullets up to .428 and everything was fine. As I said, the Winchester brass was the most forgiving. However, it started getting difficult to find Winchester 44-40 brass, they only produce it about once a year. So I bought a batch of 500 Starline 44-40 cases. They seem to be right about the same as the Winchester, right about .007 thick at the case mouth. I have been using the Starline brass for 44-40 with all my rifles for about a year now with no problems.
P.P.S. Sorry to be so blabby. Some brands of dies do not set the taper of the 44-40 back far enough to chamber in some chambers. This can be flukey, depending on the specific firearm and the specific brands of dies. A good work around for this is to grind back the bottom of the resizing die so that the case will run up further into the case, setting the taper further down on the case. Again, it is grind a little bit, and try, repeating until you get it right for your gun.
Ain't 44-40 fun?
No, it's not just you Foto Joe, 44-40 can be a bit 'fussy' to reload. Lot's of folks think it is difficult, I just think it is a little bit 'fussy'. Step #1 is to always go a little bit slow. If you slam a 44-40 case mouth into the bottom of your sizing/decap die, you will probably crush the case mouth. As I said earlier, 44-40 case mouths are thin. The brass only averages about .007 thick at the case mouth, wheras 45 Colt usually runs about .012 thick at the case mouth. That's why 44-40 seals so well in the chamber, the thinner brass expands better at relatively low pressure to seal the chamber. The thicker brass of 45 Colt does not usually seal as well. So if your cases are not perfectly centered in the shell holder or shell plate, and you slam a 45 Colt into the bottom of the die, the more robust 45 Colt case will probably shrug off the blow with no damage, but if you do the same thing with a 44-40 you will probably ruin the case. So slow and easy does it with 44-40. If you feel the case bump the bottom of the die, stop and reposition the case.
Step #2 is to set your seating/crimp die very carefully. Lots of folks don't like seating and crimping the 44-40 in the same step, they seat the bullet with one die and crimp in the next station with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That work around works. The trick I learned for seating and crimping in one step is to set the seating/crimp die so the crimp forms just a hair short of the underside of the top of the crimp groove. With most seating/crimp dies, the crimp forms just as the shell finishes rising all the way into the die. If the die is set so that the crimp bumps into the underside of the top of the crimp groove as the ram pushes the shell all the way up, the thin brass at the case mouth cannot bite into the bullet. Something has to give. What usually happens is the case mouth and neck get shoved down a hair as the final crimp is formed, resulting in a bulge in the case under the bullet. Again, with a more robust case like the 45 Colt, the brass will just buldoze its way into the lead. But the thinner brass of 44-40 gives way. My trick is to leave just a hair of space between the top of the crimp and the top of the crimp groove. That way the crimp forms in the groove and does not get shoved down. Somewhere around .005 or .010 is fine for the gap. This may lead to a problem with Smokeless loads, because the crimp of a 44-40 is not terribly strong. It is possible for bullets to set back when the rounds are slammed forward by the magazine spring in a tubular magazine of a lever gun. Not a problem with Black Powder loads because the solid 'plug' of Black Powder under the bullet prevents it from telescoping into the case.
#3 is bullet diameter selection. The 19th Century standard for groove diameter of 44-40 was .427, although in truth groove diameter could vary all over the place back then. Today, many manufacturers are using the same .429 barrels that they use for their 44 Mag/44 Sp guns. So since optimum lead bullet diameter is .001 over rifling groove diameter, if you have a gun with a .429 barrel, you may be tempted to use .430 bullets in it. Unfortunately, most 44-40 die sets come with an expander plug designed for .427 bullets. Expanding the case mouth for a .427 bullet and trying to shove a .429 or .430 bullet into it sometimes creates enough friction that once again, the entire case mouth gets shoved down as the the bullet is shoved into the case. In this situation, with 'fat bullets' it is sometimes better to use the expander plug from a 44 Mag/44 Sp die set. This plug will be a couple of thousandths larger in diameter than the standard 44-40 plug, and will expand the case mouth a bit more so that a 'fat bullet' can be seated without causing too much friction as it goes down.
#4. Lastly, unfortunately with many 44-40 revolvers, the manufacturers have not always married up cylinder throat diameter and barrel groove diameter very well. For a while, Ruger was making Vaqueros with chamber throat diameters way down around .425, but they were using .429 barrels. No matter what size the bullet was, it got sized down to .425 as it came through the chamber throat, and then rattled down the .429 barrel without getting much purchase on the rifling. Most of these Rugers became much better shooters when their chambers were reamed out to about .429. Later Ruger production cured this problem. But the problem still persists with some revolver manufacturers with mismatched chamber throat and barrel groove diameters.
Sometimes you have to experiment a bit before you find the right bullet diameter for a particular revolver, and if the chamber throats are too narrow, some reaming may be in order. The same can be true of rifles to a lesser extent. There is no mismatch of chamber throats and rifling groove diameters, but groove diameter can vary. Of my five 44-40 rifles, three have groove diameters of .427 and two have groove diameters of .429. I have since compromised and use .428 diameter dead soft, pure lead bullets in all of them with good results. I think the soft .428 bullets are probably bumping up in diameter in the bore and grabbing the .429 rifling of my Henry just fine.
So yes, loading 44-40 can be a bit 'fussy' but it is not impossible.
P.S. Yes, I used to use Winchester brass exclusively for 44-40. Of all the case mouths I measured, Winchester had the thinnest. About .007 at the case mouth. This meant the most leeway if you needed to put a 'fat bullet', around .429 or .430, into the case. This could mean maybe .001 or so of leeway with a 'fat bullet' in a tight chamber. Yes, chambers can be tight. I had been loading 44-40 with Smokeless for a while when I first started loading it with Black Powder for my Uberti 1873. When I slugged the barrel, I found it was .427, right at the old 19th Century standard. But the chamber was fairly tight. I experimented with .427, .428, and .429 bullets. The tight chamber of the 1873 would accept ammo loaded with .427 and .428 bullets, but the case mouths were expanded just enough with a .429 bullet that they were a little bit stubborn to chamber. So I settled on .427 and everything was fine. Later on when I bought my Henry it slugged to .429, as most modern Uberti 44-40 rifles do. So I bumped my bullets up to .428 and everything was fine. As I said, the Winchester brass was the most forgiving. However, it started getting difficult to find Winchester 44-40 brass, they only produce it about once a year. So I bought a batch of 500 Starline 44-40 cases. They seem to be right about the same as the Winchester, right about .007 thick at the case mouth. I have been using the Starline brass for 44-40 with all my rifles for about a year now with no problems.
P.P.S. Sorry to be so blabby. Some brands of dies do not set the taper of the 44-40 back far enough to chamber in some chambers. This can be flukey, depending on the specific firearm and the specific brands of dies. A good work around for this is to grind back the bottom of the resizing die so that the case will run up further into the case, setting the taper further down on the case. Again, it is grind a little bit, and try, repeating until you get it right for your gun.
Ain't 44-40 fun?
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