Newbie Question - Handgun vs. Shotgun for HD

[rb4browns]

Hi All

I am new to firearms and am considering whether to buy a shotgun or handgun for self-defense. I am taking a basic firearms class at a local range next week. I live in Los Angeles, and after the second shooting within 6 blocks of my apt. over the past couple months, i've decided I need to be able to protect my wife and myself in our home.

I'm interested in opinions regarding a handgun vs. shotgun, and which models of either you suggest. I'd also appreciate any advice on getting the most out of my initial firearms training and also mistakes to avoid in gun shopping. Thanks in advance!

rb

 

[OrvilleYertleson]

Hello,

This is a topic that has been hashed out extensively...try a search for it.

Basically it breaks down like this:

As far as actually shooting someone goes the shotgun wins hands down.

But a handgun on the nightstand is much more valuable than a shotgun stored in a closet out of reach.


Keep your wife in mind when you make your decision. A shotgun may seem larger than life to her and she may not feel comfortable enough with it to use it if something happens when you are not around.

Good luck.

 

[Chipperman]

Welcome to THR!
Congrats on taking an active part in your family's safety as well.

You've asked a lot of important questions, most of which do not have a clear right or wrong answer. As for the Shotgun vs Handgun for HD, I think the majority here would say Shotgun. There are some well trained people who would prefer a handgun for HD, though.

Taking the course is an excellent idea. Don't buy anything until afterward. Hopefully, you will have a good instructor, and the opportunity to try out a lot of guns. Is your wife taking the course with you? She should, if possible.

 

[EddieCoyle]

If you're going to use the gun for home defense only - in other words, you don't plan on carrying the gun concealed, on you, while you're out and about - then go with the shotgun. Others may disagree but in my opinion, there is no better home defense weapon than a short barreled 12 gauge shotgun. Get a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 with an 18" to 20" barrel. Load it with 00 buckshot (or better yet #1 buckshot).

The main reason to have a handgun instead of a shotgun for defense is concealability. If you're only going to use it in the home, concealability is not an issue.

One shot from a magnum load of 00 buck is like a whole magazine of 9 mm. The reason I also recommended #1 buck (smaller pellets than the 00) is because you indicated that you live in an apartment. Over-penetration is a concern. You don't want to shoot some innocent person behind the wall. Number 1 buckshot will not penetrate as far as 00 buck.

I have many handguns, but for home defense I use a 12 gauge shotgun.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I have both a loaded handgun on my night stand and a loaded double barrel shotgun (coach gun) leaning against the wall. You can use both. The handgun goes IWB while you carry the shotgun. In many ways, the shotgun is superior, because it is more powerful and more intimidating. It is also easier to hit someone with. No reason not to have a handgun handy too, though.

 

[Jim K]

There are two myths about shotguns for home defense; don't believe them.

The first is that a shotgun will "fill the room with a cloud of shot - you can't possibly miss." Nonsense. At the distance across an average room (around 10 feet) the shot spread will be about 3-4 inches; more than a handgun or rifle but hardly a "cloud of shot", and you certainly can miss.

The second is that a shotgun won't penetrate walls, so it is safe to let loose a shotgun blast in any direction without concern for your family or the neighbors. This, too, is nonsense. Even light shot (6-7 1/2) at short range will easily penetrate interior walls made of 3/8" or 1/2" drywall and have enough energy left to kill on the other side. You do have to be concerned about your direction of fire with a shotgun, as with any other weapon.

Jim

 

[Mooseman]

Shotgun or hand gun?

+1 on the shotgun for home defense as long as it's accessible. If you have little ones consider a small digital safe with a loaded handgun in it. A dog is always nice to have as well. They're furry and most people would rather not mess with them

 

[rustymaggot]

im going to chime in and say that penetration is what you want. 00buck works, if it didnt it wouldnt be so popular. besides, if the shot goes thru the badguy first, its not going to have enough on it to go thru walls and hurt bystanderds

for me the deciding question would be if i was staying put in the room or having to go outside of it to search. is there any good reason to leave the bedroom? such as kids in other rooms, or other things worth dying to save? searching room to room is dangerous as all get out. stay put if you can. a handgun is easier to manuver with in tight spaces. you might want the maneuverability if you have to go out to get your kids rounded up and into your own room.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

The first is that a shotgun will "fill the room with a cloud of shot - you can't possibly miss." Nonsense.

Agreed. I heard this myself a couple days ago for the umpteenth time. Pure myth. Across the room a shotgun pattern will be the size of your fist, no more. Best test of this; shoot a watermelon at 15 feet or so.

 

[gbran]

Nuther vote for the shottie.

Stay away from the pistol grip only models. They look cool but are hard to shoot straight.

 

[EddieCoyle]

There are two myths about shotguns for home defense; don't believe them.

The first is that a shotgun will "fill the room with a cloud of shot - you can't possibly miss." Nonsense. At the distance across an average room (around 10 feet) the shot spread will be about 3-4 inches; more than a handgun or rifle but hardly a "cloud of shot", and you certainly can miss.

The second is that a shotgun won't penetrate walls, so it is safe to let loose a shotgun blast in any direction without concern for your family or the neighbors. This, too, is nonsense. Even light shot (6-7 1/2) at short range will easily penetrate interior walls made of 3/8" or 1/2" drywall and have enough energy left to kill on the other side. You do have to be concerned about your direction of fire with a shotgun, as with any other weapon.

Both true. My other favorite myth is that simply racking the slide of a pump shotgun will cause a bad guy to die of fright.

The main benefit of a shotgun is its stopping power. You still have to hit the guy, but if you hit him with a shotgun, it's going to do a lot more damage than a similar hit with a handgun. You still have to learn to shoot it though.

Agreed. I heard this myself a couple days ago for the umpteenth time. Pure myth. Across the room a shotgun pattern will be the size of your fist, no more.

So will the hole in the bad guy.

 

[Preacherman]

We've been discussing this at some length in the Strategy & Tactics forum recently. See this thread for details.

 

[AStone]

RB, welcome to THR.

You've come to a good place for advice. We'll offer it freely, and some of us really know what we're talking about.

Good advice above. Indeed, Preacherman's suggestion to look at that thread is a good one. I'd also spend a few weeks searching the archives for threads on this topics. Reading will give you a sense of many of the issues surrounding both shotguns & handguns used as HD.

I feel that I've attained a university-level education about those topics in the five or six months I've been hanging out on this forum, even though I'm far, far, far from 'proficient' with any of my guns, I've made a good first step coming here and asking questions, as have you.

As for my opinion, which you should take with a grain of salt because I'm a relative newbe here: I have both shotgun & handgunS.

Given an option, I'll take the shotgun hands down, everytime.

But it isn't always possible to have my shotgun nearby, so I also wear a handgun. (Actually, I have two.)

When I sleep at night, I have a handgun (usually a Kahr K9 9mm) within reach on the night stand, and my shotgun (Remington 870 with 00) within 6'.

I also sleep in an upstairs room with an exterior solid core door and a deadlock. Unlikely anyone is going to mess with me.

Importantly, I live in an area where overpenetration (of walls) by 00 buck is not an issue. (No neighbors within 1/4 mile.)

But living in an apartment in LA as you do, it IS and should be a concern.

So, settle in, do a LOT of reading on THR, and ask questions as you need to.

Oh, by the way, surprized no one mentioned this: new members buy the rounds for all. I'll take a Blue Moon wheat ale, please.

Nem

 

[22-rimfire]

I think the myth about home defense is that you can just point a gun in the general direction of your target and the target is destroyed. AIM

Shotguns are excellent home defense guns. They are longer, hence not as handy to point quickly. You still need to shoot a little with one and practice bringing the gun up to your shoulder quickly while pressing safety off. If you ever hunted small game, bringing a shotgun up to your shoulder quickly and aiming becomes almost second nature. Good choices are the Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 pump shotguns in 12 gauge. In a stress situation, you won't even notice the recoil. I feel a 20 gauge shotgun would not be out of line either for home defense. 12 gauge just gives you more power and more pellets. But if the shot spread is only "fist sized", it really doesn't matter whether there is 50 pellets or 30 pellets in the pattern. Both would be deadly. Some people feel that No. 4 shot is ideal for home defense due to the short ranges involved and over penetration issues.

Handguns are also excellent home defense firearms. I prefer revolvers, but many like autos. You have to aim and so you have to practice bringing the gun up quickly, smoothly, and pointing it fairly accurately in one fluid motion. The good part about handguns is concealabilty in the sense that you can have one in a drawer near the bed or tucked out of sight where ever you choose.

Popular belief is that you shoot at close ranges of about 3 to 15 yards. There are no 50 yard shots. 15 yards would be probably the longest shot you would make and 3-5 yards is across the room distance. It feels very close when practicing. Use a silhouette target periodically and shoot fast to center of mass. You can practice with smaller targets, but you still need to learn to aim and shoot quickly. It is probably easier to shoot an auto more quickly and accurately than a typical double action revolver. But you have the potential jam issue which you don't have with a revolver. It comes down to what you like and what you have confidence in relative to your abilities.

 

[ZenMasterJG]

I'd vote for the shottie too, when I'm not at school (Darn stupid not being allowed to have firearms in a dorm) I keep a shotgun with 00 buck next to the bed...
Since you live in an apartment, you might wanna think about using #4 buck or so, won't penetrate so far. (So if you miss, might not kill somebody in the next apartment.) Unless, of course, you live in an apartment with nice thick concrete, etc walls, in which case you dont have to worry much.

All that said, i'd go for the shotgun. That is, of course, assuming you can't buy both

 

[USMCRotrHed]

The Right Answer for you....

As you can see everyone has an opinion that they feel strongly about.

The right answer is: Whichever one you feel more comfortable with and can practice with to the point you are proficient.

My opinion is use the handgun to protect you until you get to the shotgun, and don't forget the cellphone either. Announce to the prep that you have a gun/guns and are calling the police. With luck, you won't have to waste ammo on someone who probably isn't worth the cost of a full magazine anyway.

 

[LAK]

Ideally both a handgun and a long gun.

A handgun is ideally carried on the person in and around the home. A long gun, in this case a shotgun, can be kept at the ready in an open or hidden from view spot in the living area during the day and evening - and parked right by the bedside at night. If both of you are going out, have a place to lock it up or a carefully engineered hiding place

If you are going to only be able to afford one I would go with a shotgun. It doesn't have to be a 12 gauge - a 20 gauge will work. Or a 16 if you can find shells for it. Keep it loaded with buckshot the larger the better or slugs. Do not load it with "birdshot" or small-pellet buckshot. Use 00 buck or something close to it.
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http://ussliberty.org
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[rangerruck]

i jwould say shot gun, saiga makes a semi auto in 410 and 20 and 12 gauge, while mossberg makes a great looking front and rear pistol grip pump 410.

 

[UWstudent]

go to your dealer and get yourself a 870 NOW!!!!!!!


oh yeahhh

 

[Lou629]

It all depends....

In an "ideal" HD situation, you'd have a bit of warning and could be sitting at the top of your stairway with the 12 Ga. pointed down the staircase, waiting for the un-announced & un-invited guest to show himself. However you may not have more than a few seconds to get your act together, and in that instance a nice 9mm tucked away in the nightstand is always a good thing.

Think of it like this:

HANDGUNS are for when you think there might be trouble and you would like to be prepared to deal with it if you have to*...

LONG GUNS are for when you know trouble is headed your way and you would like to keep it as far away as possible*...

* I don't know the original author of those lines, or if i have them quoted exactly, but the general ideas they contain work for me.

 

['Card]

Count me in with another vote for the blunderbusses.

In my case, I wanted something that my wife could use for home defense while I was away. In order for her to be confident using a weapon in a high-stress situation, it had to be simple - and you don't get much more simple than a double-barrel 12-gauge, you know? Hammers back, point, pull triggers, and bad things happen downrange, you know?

She's fired it. She's knows it kills on both ends, but it's so simple that she's confident in her ability to use it. To me, that's more important than having the perfect 'magic wonder death weapon' that's too complicated for her to use with confidence.

 

[XavierBreath]

My vote is for a 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with low recoil 00 buckshot.

There are reasons why some might prefer a handgun, but the only one I can think of is if you only have one arm.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[geekWithA.45]

My advice for newbies and occassional shooters looking for a house defense/"just in case" gun is a little unconventional:

An autoloading pistol caliber carbine or .223 (frangible).

The reasoning is that handgun skills require more training to master and practice to maintain than a lot of people are willing to invest.

Shotguns are creatures of vast noise and recoil. They simply aren't for everyone. A lot of people don't take to them. They'll buy a shotgun, take it to the range, fire it once, and loathe unleashing every round after that. Moral of the story: get someone to take you to the range to shoot a shotgun before buying your own. If you take to it, fine, no problem. If you don't, then you know to get something else that fits you better.

Autoloading Carbines are light, easy to get the hits you need, have relatively light recoil, and are generally pretty friendly guns.

Examples:

Kel-Tec Sub 2000, Marlin Camp 9, Camp 45, Ruger PC9, PC4, Beretta storm, etc

 

[Oldtimer]

I'll add my vote for the shotgun, BUT I have .02 cents to add.

"OO" buck seems to be what many of you think is the best for HD purposes. While it IS an excellent "man stopper", there are somewhere between 9 and 12 projectiles in them, and they're all approximately .32 caliber in size. Since they are round and not stabilized during flight, they will spread approximately 3" to 5" (perhaps even more) at a distance of, say, 15 feet. When those "OO"-sized projectiles strike common dry wall AND 2"x4" wall studs, there is a LOT of deflection. If you accidentally hit an interior apartment wall, the penetration WILL be a big problem if there is another apartment on the other side of that wall!
If just one of those .32 caliber-sized projectiles is deflected off of a 2"x4" wall stud, that projectile MIGHT end up being deflected as far as 15 feet away from the point of impact on the wall that was penetrated! The kinetic energy will be lessened, but even if it's travelling at, say, only 500 FPS, that ONE projectile will still be at a LETHAL speed in the next-door apartment!

My personal preference for HD shotgun rounds is the #4 shot. Yes, the smaller shot WILL still penetrate through walls, and MIGHT still retain a lethal amount of kinetic energy, but that's questionable.

Many years ago, a police officer was killed by "friendly fire". He was struck by a SINGLE "OO" buck projectile, in the head, at a distance of 85 yards, and wasn't even in the direct line of fire, but that projectile had "strayed".

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Keep it loaded with buckshot the larger the better or slugs. Do not load it with "birdshot" or small-pellet buckshot. Use 00 buck or something close to it."


That's funny. Birdshot was just what I was going to suggest since the original poster lived in a apartment. Slugs are for bear hunting so I'd think that they would definately knock through a wall.