geekWithA.45
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Birdshot is for little 2 ounce birds. Not for 200 pound home invaders hopped up on PCP.
Newbie Question - Handgun vs. Shotgun for HD
- Thread starter rb4browns
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V4Vendetta
member
At 10 feet away would the birdshot really be that junky?
(1) Use a 12 gauge shotgun - you have more width of impact than single projectile
(2) pump or automatic - automatic gives you quick response and in terror of someone in your home, don't have to think to pump the gun, other than the first time
(3) Shotgun shells - use a few #4 then a few 00.
(4) Cut the barrel off to the minimum length for ease of handling and to get clylinder bore to maximize spread
(5) Have rear stock cut off or better, buy with pistol grip (regardless of what some folks say, in the distance you will be protecting yourself, you will gain more from a short barrel than improvement in aiming.
(6) Practice shooting targets, practice some more and then even more until you are comfortable with the blast and can hit what you are wanting to hit and the minimum and maximum INSIDE distances you find in your home.
(7) do not leave shell in chamber....it is safer around others and so easy to load.
(8) remove the the plug that reduces the number of shells in magazine and keep the maximum number of shells in the magazine
(9) Teach wife to use it also (but do not keep shell in chamber)
(2) pump or automatic - automatic gives you quick response and in terror of someone in your home, don't have to think to pump the gun, other than the first time
(3) Shotgun shells - use a few #4 then a few 00.
(4) Cut the barrel off to the minimum length for ease of handling and to get clylinder bore to maximize spread
(5) Have rear stock cut off or better, buy with pistol grip (regardless of what some folks say, in the distance you will be protecting yourself, you will gain more from a short barrel than improvement in aiming.
(6) Practice shooting targets, practice some more and then even more until you are comfortable with the blast and can hit what you are wanting to hit and the minimum and maximum INSIDE distances you find in your home.
(7) do not leave shell in chamber....it is safer around others and so easy to load.
(8) remove the the plug that reduces the number of shells in magazine and keep the maximum number of shells in the magazine
(9) Teach wife to use it also (but do not keep shell in chamber)
High Planes Drifter
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I am going to go against the grain here. If you are a newbie to guns, I would suggest a smaller, semi automatic gun rather than a pump action shotgun. Reason is, in a tense situation it is possible to short-stroke the pump action of a shotgun when reloading. At distances you will encounter in your apartment, contrary to what most folks think, a blast from a shotgun will not spread, so there is no advantage in that regard. Police agencies are starting to get away from shotguns and are going towards carbines in .223 and oddly enough in .30 carbine. This is what I would recomend, a .30 carbine. Over penetration is not a factor, the gun is simple and effective with modern hollowpoints. 15, 20, and 30 round mags are available; recoil is not a factor so your GF wont be scared of it. Nowadays upgraded "tactical" stocks are available, and ammo is cheap. The gun is handy, light, and battle tested.
rustymaggot
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v4vendetta...... yes, birdshot is that poor a choice. look at what happened with the cheyney accident. the guy who got shot was laughing about it on the way to the er.
rustymaggot
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highplainsdrifter...... i disagree. the .30 carbine WILL overpenetrate. any cartrige that penetrates enough to be able to hit vitals will overpenetrate. .30 carbine is a very good penetrator for a pistol round( its just not a rifle round as much as it wants to be). i love my m1 carbine and i highly reccomend them to anyone who will listen, but, .30 carbine has approx twice the penetration of 00 buck!!! im just saying its not the pop gun people think it is. using softpoints will tame down that punch and turn it into stopping potential, but even with softpoints it punches deeper than 00 buck.
Taurus 66
Member
Why choose?? Just have the pistol in one hand and the shottie in the other, loaded with 00. With teeth clenching on your ceegar, ask him, "Do you feel lucky punk? Well do you?" 
V4Vendetta
member
I think that shot placement is just as important as the caliber or gun type. A coolheaded guy with a .22LR will win againts a panicky fellow with a Uzi. Take Doc Holliday for example. Tuberculosis drained him of a lot of his energy so much that he used a .32 instead of the legendary .45 Colt. Yet with his combined accuracy & quickness, he was a legend.
Will you have more opportunity to get training and practice with one or the other?
If, for example, there is good handgun instruction and a place to run drills on your way home from work, but no place to shoot a shotgun within a couple hours drive - - that fact might strongly influence your decision.
If, for example, there is good handgun instruction and a place to run drills on your way home from work, but no place to shoot a shotgun within a couple hours drive - - that fact might strongly influence your decision.
Preacherman
Member
Those who have pointed out the over-penetration problems of buckshot - and the less-than-ideal stopping power of birdshot - are correct. If you're in a crowded urban environment, and want to avoid shooting through walls and hitting people, the best option (as proven in a number of tests) would be a .223 rifle using expanding ammo like Hornady's TAP line. This is discussed in the thread I referenced earlier. Such ammo (like all ammo) can overpenetrate, but is the least likely to do so, and the least likely to inflict really serious wounds if it does so.
Zen21Tao
Member
Here is an answer to your "handgun vs. shotgun" question:
The Serbu Super-Shorty
The Serbu Super-Shorty
Don't get a pistol grip only shotgun! You will be scared away from using a 12 Ga ever again. A good shock-absorbing PG and a folding buttstock (like Knoxx makes) will work, but they're expensive.
A basic 18" 870 will work fine for HD. Put low-recoil buckshot rounds in it. You don't need 125 fps more velocity at 10 foot ranges. $300 new, less used, and you can add stuff to it later if you want to. You can also throw on a longer barrel and hunt with it, shoot clays, etc.
Learn to pump. It's easy. Semiautos are less reliable, more expensive and a PITA to clean compared to pumps. Pumps are relatively fumble-proof and safer to handle, since you can easily and positively unload the chamber by racking back to eject and removing the shell lying in the receiver, without fiddling with a little knob.
A good D/A revolver is a good gun, as well. It's also safe to handle and relatively fumble-proof. But they take skill to shoot and such skill is best gained using a .22, so consider the price to be that of two guns. Ditto for a semiauto pistol.
A basic 18" 870 will work fine for HD. Put low-recoil buckshot rounds in it. You don't need 125 fps more velocity at 10 foot ranges. $300 new, less used, and you can add stuff to it later if you want to. You can also throw on a longer barrel and hunt with it, shoot clays, etc.
Learn to pump. It's easy. Semiautos are less reliable, more expensive and a PITA to clean compared to pumps. Pumps are relatively fumble-proof and safer to handle, since you can easily and positively unload the chamber by racking back to eject and removing the shell lying in the receiver, without fiddling with a little knob.
A good D/A revolver is a good gun, as well. It's also safe to handle and relatively fumble-proof. But they take skill to shoot and such skill is best gained using a .22, so consider the price to be that of two guns. Ditto for a semiauto pistol.
Welcome.
Since you are in LA, here are a few tips.
First no Saiga's allowed in California.
Second, Big 5 has Mossberg 12 and 20 gauge shotguns on sale every other month. I have a rain check in my wallet right now for the Mossberg 2 barrel combo model (1 18.5" & 1 28" barrel) for $199. They also, put the 20 gage and the 8 shot 12 gauge on sale quite often. In my opinion the 5 shot model handles easier and 5 shells is enough...remember this if your wife will use it too.
Turners Outdoorsman also runs sales and usually every two weeks there is one type of shotgun or another on sale. I bought a Winchester 1300 short turkey (18.5" barrel) there in Dec. 05 for $260.
Third, if your wife is small and will handle the firearm you may want add a small carbine in .223 or a pistol round (9mm. .45acp) to your selection.
Again welcome and enjoy - if your like me you will end up with shotguns, handguns, and carbines this way you can arm yourself, the wife and any visiting relatives!
Since you are in LA, here are a few tips.
First no Saiga's allowed in California.
Second, Big 5 has Mossberg 12 and 20 gauge shotguns on sale every other month. I have a rain check in my wallet right now for the Mossberg 2 barrel combo model (1 18.5" & 1 28" barrel) for $199. They also, put the 20 gage and the 8 shot 12 gauge on sale quite often. In my opinion the 5 shot model handles easier and 5 shells is enough...remember this if your wife will use it too.
Turners Outdoorsman also runs sales and usually every two weeks there is one type of shotgun or another on sale. I bought a Winchester 1300 short turkey (18.5" barrel) there in Dec. 05 for $260.
Third, if your wife is small and will handle the firearm you may want add a small carbine in .223 or a pistol round (9mm. .45acp) to your selection.
Again welcome and enjoy - if your like me you will end up with shotguns, handguns, and carbines this way you can arm yourself, the wife and any visiting relatives!
AStone
Member
pumping without pinching
I grew up with a pump shotgun, so it's second nature for me.
A key to avoid short-shucking, IMO, is rack it seriously everytime. Rack it like you mean it. Don't try to avoid making noise. Develop muscle memory.
The only thing you've got to be careful of (as I was recently reminded) when racking hard is to keep your hand well up on the fore end, and not let is slip off the back of the fore end between it and the receiver. I call that space "Pinch City", and it is a place of pain. 
Other than that, pumps are great.
Nem
I agree with AB.ArmedBear said:
I grew up with a pump shotgun, so it's second nature for me.
A key to avoid short-shucking, IMO, is rack it seriously everytime. Rack it like you mean it. Don't try to avoid making noise. Develop muscle memory.
The only thing you've got to be careful of (as I was recently reminded) when racking hard is to keep your hand well up on the fore end, and not let is slip off the back of the fore end between it and the receiver. I call that space "Pinch City", and it is a place of pain.
Other than that, pumps are great.
Nem
If I lived in California, I would get a marlin .22 magnum rifle with a few 10 shot clips... Or a remington 870 .20 gauge that looks as much like a bird gun as anything. Perhaps a lever action .357 marlin or winchester and shot .38 winchester lrn.
If you have to use it, the gun looks as innocent as possible. We are talking about LA here not New Orleans. I live in Texas. If I shoot someone with an AK who broke into my house or a pellet gun, no one will say anything. In LA, there are questions if you use hollowpoints...
And I don't care what anyone says, using a handy Marlin with a few 10 shot clips in .22 magnum using hollow points and solid points, the asslaint will be hurting. There is virtually no recoil and you could put 5 shots on target in less than 2 seconds. I seriously doubt if anyone could continue and assualt after having to withstand that kind of fire power. If he is on PCP or something a 9mm would have trouble. So it is the same difference.
Seriously, try to get something granfatherly looking.
If you have to use it, the gun looks as innocent as possible. We are talking about LA here not New Orleans. I live in Texas. If I shoot someone with an AK who broke into my house or a pellet gun, no one will say anything. In LA, there are questions if you use hollowpoints...
And I don't care what anyone says, using a handy Marlin with a few 10 shot clips in .22 magnum using hollow points and solid points, the asslaint will be hurting. There is virtually no recoil and you could put 5 shots on target in less than 2 seconds. I seriously doubt if anyone could continue and assualt after having to withstand that kind of fire power. If he is on PCP or something a 9mm would have trouble. So it is the same difference.
Seriously, try to get something granfatherly looking.
ReadyontheRight
Member
Wasn't that with a 28ga at a considerable distance?
It's much less of a big deal to carry a handgun, so you will carry it more - answering the door, when you get a weird feeling, etc. Unless you get into shotgun competitions, you are probably more likely to practice with a handgun.
A 12ga pump shotgun IS the best when something does happen, but just not as handy. Also allows for a wide variety of loads - IMHO - #4 followed by buckshot and 5 slugs in the buttcuff.
Mauserguy
Member
Since you live in LA, you will find a Big 5 somewhere near you. This week they are selling Mossberg 500 shotguns for about $230.00. They go on sale at this price about once per month. Buy a 12 guage. This particular gun comes with a 18 inch barrel for home defense and a 28 inch barrel for hunting or shooting trap and skeet. I believe that you will find this to be the best deal in LA. You may end up a gun junkie and a trap shooting fool.
Mauserguy
Mauserguy
ReadyontheRight
Member
Mossberg 500 with an 18" HD barrel and a long barrel for hunting or trap/skeet/sporting clays. You can't go wrong.
After I complete my mission to have every human being issued a .357 handgun at birth, I will start work on the "two-barrel 12ga after completing first steps" project.
(Of course you know by now that you really need to get both a handgun and a shotgun )
And a rifle.
After I complete my mission to have every human being issued a .357 handgun at birth, I will start work on the "two-barrel 12ga after completing first steps" project.
(Of course you know by now that you really need to get both a handgun and a shotgun
)And a rifle.
AStone
Member
Wow. For that, I'd be willing to be reborn.
Nem
PlayboyPenguin
member
readyontheRight said:
I already have three .357mags (Ruger SP101, Ruger GP100, Taurus 65). Can we make mine a .38 please? I still do not own a single one.
AStone
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642! 642!
50caliber123
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can't you shoot .38spc in a .357mag? I thought that in most you could.
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