Newbie questions about loading .45 ACP

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Swift

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I've been loading rifle cartridges for twenty+ years on a single stage RCBS press. I've also reloaded shotshells for even more years. I'm recently bought a Kimber 1911 and want to start reloading .45 ACP for it. I'm looking around at powder choices and realise Unique and Bullseye are quite popular. I've got a supply of Green Dot and have found some loads for that. I've also got a supply of Winchester WST 3 but am not having any luck finding any info on this powder. I can find a lot on WST, but what's the difference between WST and WST 3?

I've also got questions on bullet selection. Do I need to shoot jacketed bullets till I'm through with the "break in period" with the Kimber, or can I get some lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Company and use them to break it in? What do I need to watch to shoot lead vs jacketed bullets? I'm pretty new to this pistol thing but I'm enjoying the heck out of it. I'm leaning towards a Hornady LnL progressive to load .45 and .223, but I think I'll walk before I run and get some load development done on the single stage first. Thanks for any suggestions guys.
 

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all things being equal lead runs at a lower pressure and higher velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight and powder charge. when lubed it's slipperier. lead runs fine in a 45. you can use a very wide range of powders. 45 is very forgiving and easy to load for.

things to watch out for... you will get lead fouling after a while. shoot 50-100 rounds and look down the barrel. you will see all kinds of gunk and when you clean it slivers of lead will come out. you can reduce this by using a harder lead and keeping your velocities down, but it doesn't really hurt anything. I generally clean after every 300-500 rounds or so. I've never used missouri bullets. if they don't come lubed you will need to lube them. lee's liquid alox works well.

I can't help you at all with your WST powder question. sorry.
 
Break in period? I am not sure a break in is needed. What I see that meaning is "give the piece a workout to find some reliable ammo that works well in it". All ammo is not equal. Does Kimber have break in instructions?

Unique and W231 are my go to powders for 45 Auto. I am currently shooting a 225 Gr cast bullet that I cast myself. I have no issues with these. They are just fine.
 
I'm not familiar and had never used WST nor WST 3, so I can't help you in that area. However, I'm sure if you Google it, you'll find answers to your question.

Now, on the jacketed vs hardcast (lead) bullets...I have used thousands of hardcast bullets for all my 1911 during and after break-in periods. You just have to watch for excessive leading if you are using hardcast bullets. Clean pistol when accuracy and reliability start to suffer. My favorite load is 5.3 of Win 231 using 200 LSWC. Great practice and plinking load.

I heard good things about Hornady LnL, but I've been a Dillon 550 reloader for over 30 years and have nothing to complain about this fine machine!
 
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"lead runs at a lower pressure and higher velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight"

G22, I believe you meant it the other way. Most lead bullets, even the plated bullets have wall of about 1000fps. After that, expect leading. 'Course with the 45acp that ain't no big deal. Its built to run around 800+fps. Push it over that and things may get exciting. Almost any decent lead bullet will run through the 45 with little or no leding.
You can play with springs and light loads and develop some neat loads for plinking and getting used to the pistol. Don't try this but I use a 155gr LTC with a 10# spring and American Select for the nicest round to practice out of the holster or other drills.
I have used Red Dot and American Select for a long long time in my shotgun, rifle and pistol (cowboy light loads). I load AS for really decent traploads and mid-power for skeet. Shotgun powders make for some mid-range to decent power loads for most handgun cartridges.
Here is something interesting. If you have not seen it, that is.

http://www.handloads.org/loaddata/d...&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm

As you can see, RD and AS are relatively slow powders. If you want to step it up a little go up to Titegroup or higher. I strongly suggest researching some info on loading metallic cartridges.

A few years back I bought a nice trap combo and a SC and skeet O/U. I had loaded for cowboy and thought I knew about shotgun reloading. If I had tried what I thought would work, I would have been in trouble. After becoming enlightened how much different shotgun primers, wads, and powder can be, I went to the internet and books.
I drink blue koolaid also. I have three 650s, and a Square Deal B, and a Ponsness/Warren 800 Plus. And a Lee turret and Mec 600. Yeah, I'm ate up with guns too.
Goodluck and be careful. Post or pm anytime.
 
I have never had leading in .45 ACP barrels. I am constantly bewildered by posts about .45 ACP and leading in barrels.

1000 FPS limit for lead or you get leading? Come on now. That is a fallacy as well. Lead 9MM, .357, .41, and .44 loads routinely run over that magical limit with no leading with no gas check or other means to stop leading.

Missouri Bullets come lubed, as do all commercial cast bullets that I am aware of.

Shoot whichever to "break" the pistol in. Matters not to it.

Dunno about WST 3. Really like WST.

Red Dot is a relatively fast powder. American Select is slower, but certainly not slow by pistol powder standards.
 
Walkalong, kinda depends on the powder doesn't it?

Some of the electroplated bullet makers say 1000 to about 1250. I was passing on their recomendations. Slap some copper butts on those things and you can get 1500 or better.

Now if you want to talk about leading, get some Glock shooters in here.

In my 68 years and 50 years of reloading, I have never encountered any serious leading. When pig hunting with my 6 1/2" nickle M29, I used copper butts to get hard cast 240s up to about 1200fps. As a cowboy shooter, I can tell you some bad tolerances will cause a single action to lead up with light loads. My pistols were set up professionally with a correct forcing cone angle and their is no issue of leading after seven years of shooting lead bullets through my three screw 357s.

I shoot 308s with copper butts through a M100 auto at about 2000fps with no leading.

Been there and done that.

Never been a velocity person unless you are going after antelope. Somewhat homemade 7mm Mag, 140s, at about 3200 fps.

Or whistlepig hunting. Used to flop down on a high knoll overlooking some 700 yard fields in WV. 22-250 with 53 gr Sierra hollow point at about 3750fps. Man, got some good memories.
 
nope. I stand by my assertion. in an identical weight of powder and bullet: lead vs jacketed, lead will have higher velocity and lower pressure. check a load manual.

but I'll use 1 example from modern reloading volume 2 pages 668 and 669. 45 acp
200 grain bullets, 6.7 grains of universal. (max loads since they show pressure too)
jacketed: 930 fps 17,200 cup. (pressure)
lead: 981 fps 16,600 cup

lubed lead bullets are just slipperier. also, I'm running hardcast lead through rifles well above 1000 fps. I get leading yes, but not too bad. even in the 30 carbine at 1450. a lot of it is powder choice. I used a too fast burning powder in a 44 mag marlin one time. got my velocity around 1200 fps and discovered I was stripping the bullets out. groups went from 2" at 20 yds to 2' at 40. I switched to a slower powder, got the same velocity and all was well. (my fast powder was an old one with no load data. it sure was cheap though :)
 
Winchester Super Target has been discontinued for several years now...that's the bad news.
Click to expand...

Still listed on Winchester's website and PV has it listed for sale.
 
WST Powder

Go To the Hodgedon Reload Data Site.
Loads listed for 45ACP from 155-230.
My past experience with a few Kimber 45s.
In most cases,keep running bullets thru it and will keep getting slicker. Just keep it Wet.
Lead is too easy to remove to worry about.
As for the LNL, been there now using a 650 less Issues.
 
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about breaking in the Kimber:

FWIW, I have a Kimber ST II--10mm. It came with instructions to break it in for about 500 rounds. Personally, I buy into breaking in a well-fit firearm--and to burnishing the barrel, so I used jacketed bullets, and I did follow the break-in recommendations.

My 10 mm--running lighter 10mm rounds (a 180 LTC at about 1050 fps)--would heat up quickly during the first couple hundred rounds. By round 300 the heating up was noticably less, and by found 500+, it simply was a slick-running machine.

So, I would suggest you do the Kimber recommendation for the break-in period. During that time I cleaned it after each range outing and ran it wet, too. (IMO, I do not think we need to segue here into 1911 discussions, so let's leave the Kimber / 1911 discussions without much more sidetracking....)

Lead bullets will not burnish a barrel, obviously. Personally, I now shoot only lead in my (other) 1911s. So, Hagen442 fairly well sums it up, I think.

added on edit: Isn't WST 3 simply Winchester's old nomenclature for the 3-lb. tin can?

Jim H.
 
I'm still not having any luck finding any information on WST 3. I got the partial container from a guy that borrowed my shotshell reloader when he was shooting on a trap league. I inherited his leftover supplies when he moved and I got my reloader back. I don't shoot many light trap loads and have either bought factory ammo to shoot pheasants or used green dot for my hunting loads. I just thought it might be a good way to burn this powder up, but I'm not going to take any chances if I can't determine how to safely load it. I figured somebody had heard of it. There's lot's of info on WST on
Google, but nothing of use on WST 3. That's why I included the picture, so everyone could see that it's different than WST. I'll just err on the side of caution and use it up in shotgun loads. I think I've still got a recipe somewhere that was used to make trap loads. Thanks for trying.

On edit: jfh This is in a 3 lb tin. If that's all that the 3 is signifying, then I'll be good to go. This sounds promising. How confident are you that this is what the 3 stands for? Thanks.
 
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Swift,
I'm sure Jim has the correct answer for you but in the future, when in doubt contact the powder company. They will give you information like that. The email address for questions on Winchester components is [email protected] although asking Hodgdon about any Hodgdon, Winchester or IMR powder will yield the same answers...

Hodgdon - [email protected]
IMR - [email protected]
Winchester - [email protected]
Accurate Arms - [email protected]
Ramshot - Same as AA (both Western Powder) or contact link Here
Alliant - Contact on their site www.alliantpowder.com/questions/default.aspx
VihtaVuori - Fill in the contact box on their site http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/contact_us.php
 
Walkalong, kinda depends on the powder doesn't it?
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Yes. Red Dot is a fast pistol powder. Something like Blue Dot would be considered slow for a pistol powder. H-110 even slower.

I may be missing your definition of "slow".

Some of the electroplated bullet makers say 1000 to about 1250. I was passing on their recomendations. Slap some copper butts on those things and you can get 1500 or better.
Click to expand...
You sure your not talking about lead for little copper butts? :D
 
I recently helped a new reloader get setup. He has a new Kimber 1911 and have shot several hundred rounds of factory ammunition.

I had him load 200 gr SWC and 230 gr RN from Missouri Bullets using 5.0 gr of W231/HP38. He has reloaded 2000 rounds so far and shot them without any leading in the barrel. He reported better than factory ammunition accuracy with more firmer recoil (makes me wonder about the load consistency of some of his factory loads).

I also shot the pistol with the same load at the range and consistently got single hole shot groups at 7-10 yards and sub 1.5" shot groups at 15 yards off hand (I got the feeling that the pistol/load are capable of more tighter group than my hands/eyes can produce).

Seen many good posts about WST, I plan to add some to my next bulk powder order.
 
Lead bullets will not burnish a barrel, obviously.
Click to expand...
Many older pistols and 1911 barrels had rough finish from the factory and shooting jacketed bullets helped "burnish" the surface. Some newer factory barrels come polished and/or coated and do not need to be burnished (Glock, M&P, H&K, etc.).

And all Lone Wolf barrels come polished and I recommend shooting lead loads right away in them.
 
ArchAngleCD pointed out the obvious answer, swift--which, in my haste to be of help, I ignored--and which is part of the newbie learning process for reloading. The factory / manufacturer / distributer should always be considered the authoritative resource, not internet advice (even if apparently reasonable).

Jim H.
 
Wst container codes per weight

what's the difference between WST and WST 3?
Click to expand...
Do you have a 3 lb can? :D Codes for 1lb-WST1BP. 3LB-WST3. 8LB-WST8BP Buy some Bullseye & 200gr lswc, load 3.8gr to start WLP primer. If you want more fps, up the charge. ;) PS. codes come from the free winchester reloaders manual 1999.
 
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ArchAngelCD, thanks for the e-mail addresses. I contacted Hogdon this morning and they replied that WST was WST regardless of the numbers following it. They merely represented the size of container it was sold in. I appreciate everyones input. Thanks.

Swift
 
MOST ALL MY LEAD RELOADS I TRY TO KEEP AT OR BELOW 1000FPS.

my 45 seems to run good around 800+ but the 44 will lead quicker at least for me

have not had too much out of the 40 or 10mm
 
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