NFA and rifle/shotgun combos?

[Sam1911]

Hi guys!

Recently there have been a number of threads regarding the ATF's letter on the Thompson Center vs. US case and how it affects folks with T/C Encores, Contenders, and MechTech type carbine kits.

Here's the latest thread and it links to all the previous ones and to the letter itself:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=489299

So far the discussion has entirely centered on the (il)legality of swapping from a gun configured as a rifle to (or back to) a pistol configuration without registering the weapon under Title II as a "firearm made from a rifle."

My newest point of debate is this: There are several kits on the market that will allow you to convert a single-shot rifle to a single-shot shotgun. (NEF, Rossi, and the Encores/Contenders come to mind.) Here's one: http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=101910

Do these not also run afoul of the same prohibition against making a firearm "from a rifle" exactly the same way that making a pistol from a rifle does?

Thoughts?

-Sam

 

[CoRoMo]

Hmmm. Good question.

But since the nonsensical legal wall of separation exists between long guns and handguns, I think it wouldn't become an issue because you're just playing around in the long gun pool.

What makes it all the more silly is that the receiver is the gun. At one point, I guess, the receiver is a shotgun, but then it becomes a rifle at another point. I suppose the fact that it is always a long gun makes it a non-issue.

At least those are my thoughts.

It definitely illustrates the absurdity of these regs though.

 

[Sam1911]

Ok. I think I missed an important point. The letter actually quotes the NFA as defining a "firearm" (which must be registered under Title II) as a weapon "made from a rifle," if that weapon is under 26" in length and/or has barrel(s) of less than 16".

So, from my (still somewhat incomplete) understanding, it seems that converting a rifle to a shotgun would not be illegal as long as you've not constructed an SBR, or SBS, or a pistol.

Also, even if that were not the case, the Rossi Trifecta sets would fall under the same loophole as the T/C kits addressed in the SCOTUS decision -- as a set that was sold complete with multiple configurations possible.

Probably a case of "never mind."

-Sam

 

[CoRoMo]

the Rossi Trifecta sets would fall under the same loophole as the T/C kits

Technically, no. I believe the T/C kits did in fact convert a handgun to rifle and back, but the Trifecta doesn't. That silly wall I mentioned between handguns and long guns. But, say the Rossi kit did have a short 12" barrel chambered in .357mag, it would most definitely start a legal storm.

IIRC, NOTHING will fit into the so called "T/C kit loophole" other than the very T/C kit that was at question. From what I've read, if Rossi were to make a similar kit, the AFT would likely not allow it to go on unchallenged. In their strange view, that SCOTUS decision doesn't open any doors for other kits.

IANAL and I'm sorta tossing out the bits of info that I believe I've retained about that whole mess.

 

[Sam1911]

IIRC, NOTHING will fit into the so called "T/C kit loophole" other than the very T/C kit that was at question.

The ATF letter says the following, "It is the position of the ATF that if a multipurpose firearm kit containing the above-listed componants is obtained as an assemblage of parts from a single source, the componants of the kit may be assembled and subsequently reassembled an unlimited number of times as a rifle or pistol..."

Doesn't say specifically a T/C kit. -- just "a multipurpose kit" purchased as an assemblage from "a single source."

IANAL, either. But that looks fairly clear to me.

Still, looks like, since the shotgun barrels would be long enough to keep the gun out of SBR/SBS territory, you could convert a Trifecta kit between rifle and shotgun at will.

-Sam

 

[highorder]

just "a multipurpose kit" purchased as an assemblage from "a single source."

I wonder if Del-ton will add the word "KIT" to an invoice for an AR rifle with a spare pistol upper?...

 

[CoRoMo]

The ATF letter says the following...

Great!! We all know that the ATF never changes their positions or waivers from their previous determinations.

 

[jobu07]

A single source... That begs the question. Suppose one individual purchases a T/C pistol and seperately purchases a rifle barrel - but never assembles them together. Then that individual sells it as an assemblage of parts to another individual?

You've got a single source selling an assemblage of parts... But now you're just playing word games I suppose.

 

[Sam1911]

But now you're just playing word games I suppose

Can't play word games with the ATF. They can play word games with US, but not the other way 'round! LOL!

-Sam