NICS denial, questions and concerns

[sloazzgt]

I'll start with a quick background about myself. I have two arrests from 17+ years ago, a felony that the DA refused and the charges were dropped, and a misdemeanor with a paid fine (paid). Just moved to Florida from Virginia. In Va I applied for and received my CCW about 8 years ago. On my first firearm purchase I was delayed about three weeks, the second took 5 minutes. The third was at a gunshow and the state police showed up and threatened to arrest me for lieing on a 4473. Talked to him for a while, he let me go and said he'd do some research and get back to me. He never did, and I was never able to get a hold of him. I also have a secret clearance with the government.

Recently moved to Florida and applied for my CCW. Had a denial, which I appealed. They confused me with somebody else, then they continued to process the application. Gathered and submitted police/court records for the above mentioned arrests. 6 months after starting, I get my permit.

On to my current issue. Found somebody online who wanted to trade some optics I had for a rifle. They shipped to my FFL, I shipped the stuff to them. I go to the FFL to fill out the paperwork and of course, denied. Right now I have an appeal in with the FDLE and submitted one via the FBI website also. What all are my options concerning the weapon though? The dealer made a comment about if it wasn't resolved in 21 days I had to sell it to him (for whatever he thought it was worth). Not sure if he was joking or what, but I don't have any knowledge on the matter so wasn't going to engage in a debate.

Is there a time limit it has to be resolved by? Like I said, going through the process with my CCW it took about 6 months with waiting for paperwork and processing. Do I have to sell it to the dealer and am I allowed to sell the rifle to somebody else as long as they can get approval? What all rights do I have concerning this gun? Technically, since it's paid for is it still mine even though I can't possess it at the moment.

 

[dogtown tom]

sloazzgt ...... The dealer made a comment about if it wasn't resolved in 21 days I had to sell it to him (for whatever he thought it was worth).

1. He's an idiot.
2. FBI NICS appeals can take five months or more.
3. He can't force you to sell it to him, he can charge you storage fees. It may be cheaper to sell the gun and just pay him to ship to another buyer.
4. Knowing that you've had issues in the past it would be a good practice to ask for the dealers transfer policies in writing PRIOR to the gun arriving.

Is there a time limit it has to be resolved by?

I've had customers NICS appeals resolved in five days and one took five months.

The only time I charged a customer a storage fee was one where he didn't begin the appeal for eight months. I don't charge a fee when the appeal is started in a timely manner. (the reason he didn't begin his appeal for eight months?......he was waiting for his deferred adjudication period to expire. Meaning he lied on his 4473 regarding his criminal history. ATF wasn't interested as usual)

Do I have to sell it to the dealer and am I allowed to sell the rifle to somebody else as long as they can get approval?

Few dealers will let you sell it to anyone who is local for fear that they are actually going to sell it back to you in the parking lot. (straw sale)

Most would sell it for you on consignment or allow you to sell it online and ship it to the buyer.

What all rights do I have concerning this gun? Technically, since it's paid for is it still mine even though I can't possess it at the moment.

If the dealer sells it without your permission or keeps it as his own.........he could be committing conversion, a form of theft.
By telling you that you have 21 days to get your approval is fair warning.

 

[sloazzgt]

Thanks for the info.

So basically he can't do anything with the weapon without my consent. I don't have much info on it. I have a few pictures and it has a not common paint job, but I don't even know the serial number. Should I request copies of relevant info like that or get a picture with the Sn?

I went the same day and get fingerprinted and mailed off the appeal. Its to a different department of the same division I dealt with for my concealed carry permit. Crappy inefficient government agencies, but hopefully it won't take that long. I appealed to the FBI and requested the reason for denial as a secondary measure. I wonder if I should apply for a UPIN. I've read that in most cases it isn't worth the hassle but might be so for me.

I expect because of the holidays it will take that much longer to resolve.

 

[acamk37]

Have you thought about getting a UPIN? I think your situation is why they have VAF, for people who get denied/delayed a lot for firearms purchases who in actuality can legally own guns.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ni...rocess/nics-appeal-frequently-asked-questions

Crap ignore that question, just read your last post. I think it would help you out though.

 

[bikemutt]

^^^^^^ this.

Your situation is the poster-child for a VAF and UPIN. Without a VAF/UPIN every NICS check starts from scratch and will continue to discover the same prohibitive information each time, most likely resulting in further denials.

 

[MtnCreek]

Does FL require a NICS check for carry permit holders?

 

[mgkdrgn]

Thanks for the info.

So basically he can't do anything with the weapon without my consent. I don't have much info on it. I have a few pictures and it has a not common paint job, but I don't even know the serial number. Should I request copies of relevant info like that or get a picture with the Sn?

I went the same day and get fingerprinted and mailed off the appeal. Its to a different department of the same division I dealt with for my concealed carry permit. Crappy inefficient government agencies, but hopefully it won't take that long. I appealed to the FBI and requested the reason for denial as a secondary measure. I wonder if I should apply for a UPIN. I've read that in most cases it isn't worth the hassle but might be so for me.

I expect because of the holidays it will take that much longer to resolve.

Personally, I'd look into getting it transferred to another dealer that isn't such a dick.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Does FL require a NICS check for carry permit holders?

The FFL doesn't require it, but the FEDS do for some. Not all CHL's pass their muster to skip the NICS check.

 

[sloazzgt]

Does FL require a NICS check for carry permit holders?

From what I understand, no concealed permit that is good for more than five years is accepted. Florida permits are seven years.

Whats a VAF? That something different than a UPIN, I've never heard of it.

 

[Rule3]

Yes Fl requires a background check and 4473 for Concealed carry permit holders. The only thing a CCW helps with is no 3 day wait for a handgun.

The background is done through FDLE not the FBI. It costs the FFL a $5 phone call or computer search now. You pay for the check even if you do not pass. You pay and have a background even if you pawned your own gun to get some cash when you pick it up.

For the OP were you in fact DENIED or Delayed??

 

[sloazzgt]

Update.

I was denied. I got my appeal letter back from the FDLE appeals division yesterday. I called then to ask if I could jumpstart the process and send off that court paperwork before they request it. Turns out the same person that handled my concealed permit appeal is also handling this and she's already recommended it for approval. Is just waiting to get filed and mailed.

I asked if she knew anything about the UPIN/VAF, she told me that their only approving them in cases of mistaken identity and that I wouldn't be approved for one. She went on to tell me that my issue is with the Louisiana courts and that both of the cases I mentioned in my first post are in the system as being unresolved. She said I would continue to have this problem until I deal with the courts to get the records fixed. So now I have to see about that.

 

[bikemutt]

I asked if she knew anything about the UPIN/VAF, she told me that their only approving them in cases of mistaken identity and that I wouldn't be approved for one.

She would be wrong concerning a UPIN/VAF. In a nutshell, if a person is denied a firearm transfer because of a NICS denial, and if that denial is overturned on appeal, having a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) on record simply means that future denials for the same
reason(s) will be automatically "appealed" and "overturned", the transfer will be proceeded.

The reasons for a denial don't go away, a VAF, which is accessible to NICS with a UPIN, simply short-circuits the deny-appeal-overturned process.

 

[BSA1]

She went on to tell me that my issue is with the Louisiana courts and that both of the cases I mentioned in my first post are in the system as being unresolved. She said I would continue to have this problem until I deal with the courts to get the records fixed. So now I have to see about that.

She is telling you the truth on this part. One of my tasks for several years was running background checks for job applicants and visitors. Basically it boils down to garbage in and garbage out for some departments. Generally speaking most departments are very good about entering arrests but the process breaks down entering disposition of the charges for several reasons. When we had criminal charges with no disposition we would have to contact the court in that city / county / parish, have the clerk research the case and send us a copy of the disposition. It was easier for us to get this information as we were a law enforcement agency conducting a investigation. (If the person had outstanding warrants we would tell them they were approved and then arrest them when they showed up but I digress).

The bad news for you is only the agency that entered the information can go in and correct it by adding the disposition. So what this means for you is hiring a attorney that practices law in that court and have the court send the disposition to whomever entered the charges and update it.

And that is going to take some time.