Nighttime - Shotgun with no light vs. pistol w/ flashlight

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DigMe

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Ok, I think there is absolutely no argument that a shotgun is a far better defensive weapon than a pistol. However, say you're at home one night and hear someone a stirring in the house and you know it's not your wife who's snoring beside you. You've never invested in one of those special setups to mount a surefire or similar light on your shotgun, which is within arm's reach and stoked with 1 buck. You're 9mm pistol is also within arm's reach next to your lithium/xenon flashlight.

What do you do? Do you grab the pistol, which can be easily operated with one of a number of methods while holding the flashlight? Do you grab your shotgun and attempt to aim and operate while holding flashlight? Or do you just grab the shotgun and hope to rely on your already adjusted night vision?

What's the best action if your options were limited as stated above?

brad cook
 
In this situation, you hole up with the shotgun and call 911.

Tomorrow, go buy a light for your shotgun.

For patrol I bought a light for my handgun first, because I always have it with me (and I have to go into the deep dark, which you don't at home), but the long gun is next.
 
While we're discussing it, can anyone throw out the most inexpensive tactical lighting option for a Remington 870 Express?

brad cook
 
Or a Mossberg 590? :eek:

A suggestion I've heard is to take a flashlight, preferably a 4-D MagLite, and rig up a sort of handle to it. From the description, it's a bit like a dog-collar sling for a Mosin-Nagant. A loop of nylon webbing (use Duct tape if money is low ;) )around the body near the base and another near the head, connected by a third piece going from one to the other. With the middle strap facing up on the flashlight, you slide your left hand palm up (back of hand against the area you'd normally hold the light) into the strap. Hold the shotgun as you normally would, thus making the light point where the shotgun points.

Since this written version looks confusing even to me after I wrote it up, here's an attachment of the general idea...
 
I don't skimp on my emergency equipment. I wouldn't go for anything but a top quality light, expensive though they be.
 
considering i don't have a light on my shotty (yet), i'd probably go for my 1911 and flashlight. definately don't want to start throwing buck through the house without a good visual.
 
Here is an easy way to use a light on a long gun if you have a Surefrire handheld light such as an E2E, 6P or other.
Turn the tail cap switch until the light comes on. Then turn it back just until the light goes out. Now grip the forearm of the long gun with your weak hand in a normal firing position. Place the surefire light between your fingers and the forearm of the gun with the light laying along the forearm and the bezel pointed toward the muzzle. With the tailcap switch in the position stated above you can manipulate the light on and off by simply sqeezing the light against the forearm of the gun.
 
Tracy, that works great right up until you start shooting the shotgun and start experiencing recoil. I tried that out one evening and the next day I ordered a Surefire forend for my Mossy.
 
Jayman,
Of course your solution is probably best but failing that or for the lack of funds the method I describe can be effective while shooting, even with a pump but like anything takes practice.
 
The headlamp might not be the best idea because you can't easily turn it on and off. If you keep your light on constantly as you move you are easy to track (and shoot at).

All budget issues aside, the best solution for long guns is a dedicated light mounted on the weapon, capable of one handed operation and momentary on.

-smn
 
I dont have any use for a light on my guns. I am not clearing strange buildings, I don't have any kids at home, my wife sleeps in the same bed I do. I know the layout of the house, and can get anywhere in it, in silence. If someone is in the place, its his butt.
 
I agree that there is no substitute for good quality equipment including lights. I have a Surefire dedicated forearm on my 870. Price and the ability to afford something is a personal matter, but the Surefire shotgun lights are cheap compared to the rifle lights. I think I paid about half as much for my 6v shotgun light as I did for my Surefire 900 series light I have on my AR15.
For home defense you could probably get by with using a flashlight and a pump shotgun. It wouldn't be ideal or even real practical, but it could get the job done. It is practical to run a handgun or a semi-auto rifle with a flashlight, but a pump shotgun is another matter. It is hard to run the action with the light in your hand. The recoil may take out the bulb. You can't load the shotgun with a light in your hand (this isn't really an issue in home defense). You really can't clear malfuncitons with a light in your hand.
One thing that seems to be forgotten in a lot of these discussions is actual experience. Go out, at night, with your shotgun and your light and see if you can make it work. Don't just fire one round at a target and call it quits. Try various weapon manipulations with the light and see how you do. If it works for you, that is all that counts.
I am no expert in anything, but I have spent a few hours firing rifles, pistols, and shotguns with lights at night. Before I actually tried it, I thought I understood what was involved and was sure I could do it. Actually trying it presented some problems that I never thought of. For example, I knew how to hold a light to fire a handgun. But the idea of doing a mag change or a malfunction clearence never entered my mind. I shot an IDPA match at night and quickly fell apart. This stuff isn't hard, but you do need to actually do it to work out the bugs in your technique.

Obviously I can't really answer your question because I have lights on my long guns. In a hypothetical situation I would use the handgun and the light. I wouldn't try it without a light.
 
Holding the flashlight away from your body is one valid technique. However it isn't suitable in all situations. For example in the hallways of my own home, they arn't much wider than my shoulders, so there is no where to hold the flashlight away from my body. Another place it might not be a good idea is when firing a shotgun. Trying to hold and aim a shotgun with one hand/arm isn't easy. If it is a pump shotgun, the action is going to partially cycle when the gun is fired and you are going to then have to shut off the light to move the light toward the center of your body to run the action. If you remove the light from your adversary, you don't know what he is doing. You don't know if you hit him, you don't know if he is out of the fight, you don't know if he is moving, you don't know if there are more of them. If you leave the light on to run the action, then you might have well have held the light in one hand and the forend of the shotgun in the same hand to begin with. And if you pause to see what happened before you run the action while leaving the light on the target and away from your body, you are in trouble if you need to shoot again quickly.
If your opponent is using a good weapon mounted light, two things are going to occur at the same time. #1 When he points the weapon at you and turns on the light, you are going to be blinded. These lights are powerful, far more powerful than a standard two D-Cell flashlight. Your eyesight will be greatly diminished both from the powerful light and the fact that your eyes were adjusted to darkness. He will also be behind the "veil of light". In other words, you see a bright cone of light, but you don't know exactly where he is in that cone of light. #2 If you are being illuminated by a weapon mounted light, that means his gun is pointing at you; the second he sees you are a threat, he fires. He probably isn't going to give you time to accurately fire at that veil of light. "If I were in a situation and someone had a flashlight, that is right where I would aim." Of course if he was holding the light away from his body also, he would now know right where you were because of the muzzle flash and his flashlight and you still would not know where he was. It works both ways. If you were using a light, it wouldn't matter if he was holding his away from his body as much as if you didn't have a light.

Like any other low light technique, holding the light away from your body requires practice. First of all, can you shoot accurately with one hand. Secondly, you have to keep the light in front of your body at all times; otherwise you are clearly illuminating your own body. And, like any other technique, you need to know what you are going to do if you have to reload or clear a malfunction.
There are a number of accepted low light techniqes. They all have their good and bad points. They all have certain situations where they might be the one best technique for that particular situation. And likewise they all have their drawbacks. They all require practice not only to learn the technique but also to demonstate to yourself what you are capable of when using the technique. Most experts agree that there is no one best technique for all situations. They advise you to try them all and learn them all.
 
I had a light mounted with a clamp, but i'm gonna have to invest in something a little more pricey. It would move under recoil impulse.
 
If I decide to remain in a static defense, then the shotgun. If I decide to move around the house, then the handgun and flashlight.
 
Do you grab your shotgun and attempt to aim and operate while holding flashlight? Or do you just grab the shotgun and hope to rely on your already adjusted night vision?

I'd take the flashlight and handgun. I'd much rather positively identify the threat, instead of risking my future on "adjusted night vision." I don't know about you, however I would feel real badly if I shot the next door neighbor, because he got drunk one night, and walked into the wrong house (yes, it happens all the time; not the shooting part, but walking into the wrong house/apartment).

Not to mention, the possible criminal and civil liability issues can be huge.
 
I just bought a SA DX40 I am planning on purchasing a M6X light and laser. I am also planning on purchasing the shotgun barrel adapter so that I can use the light on whichever weapon I decide is apropiate. That one light is going to work on several differant guns.
 
can you get an adaptor so i can mount an M3 on my winchester defender? Like, a forend with a weaver rail?
 
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