nitrated paper for cartridges?

[TheOutlawKid]

I use RAW brand...they are thin and not sure if they are treated to burn slow..but if they are i think the excessive heat from the black powder explosion somewhat overrides the slow burn treatment. Ive had success with other brands as well and even the thicker Bugler/TOPS brand papers. I prefer the thin rice or hemp rolling papers though.

 

[arcticap]

What brand of British teabags would work best ?

Many have noted that tea bag paper burns faster than cigarette paper.
There's a paper that's the same as tea bag paper that is used for building model airplanes.
It's called silkspan and it's much more economical than buying tea bags.
It comes in 3 grades, light, medium and heavy.

Sig Manufacturing in IA sells silkspan in 24" X 36" sheets for $2.32. --->>> https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue

The same sheets of Sig silkspan are sold on eBay for $2.45 with $5 shipping,--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIG-SILKSPAN-TISSUE/283964177614?hash=item421d957cce:g:EL8AAOSwpmZfI3Rh

eBay item number: 283964177614
Enter the item number or silkspan into the eBay searchbox.

Silkspan can often be found for sale at hobby shops.
Not to be confused with other thinner tissue papers sold for ultra light model airplane building that are made from different Japanese plant fibers.

 

[MEHavey]

Cigarette paper is treated to retard combustion.

Still... in all my years shooting in the N-SSA producing paper cartridges for my Sharps, the paper was always "gone" when I dropped thd the block to load the next round.... And that was a round every 10 seconds or so... for two minutes straight... every relay.

...even when half the case was cornmeal for the 50-yard targets.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Many have noted that tea bag paper burns faster than cigarette paper.
There's a paper that's the same as tea bag paper that is used for building model airplanes.
It's called silkspan and it's much more economical than buying tea bags.
It comes in 3 grades, light, medium and heavy.

Sig Manufacturing in IA sells silkspan in 24" X 36" sheets for $2.32. --->>> https://sigmfg.com/products/sig-silkspan-tissue

The same sheets of Sig silkspan are sold on eBay for $2.45 with $5 shipping,--->>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIG-SILKSPAN-TISSUE/283964177614?hash=item421d957cce:g:EL8AAOSwpmZfI3Rh

eBay item number: 283964177614
Enter the item number or silkspan into the eBay searchbox.

Silkspan can often be found for sale at hobby shops.
Not to be confused with other thinner tissue papers sold for ultra light model airplane building that are made from different Japanese plant fibers.

Ya know i have never heard of silkspan. Which weight would work best..light, medium, or heavy? Sounds like something worth looking into for experimentation.

 

[arcticap]

Ya know i have never heard of silkspan. Which weight would work best..light, medium, or heavy? Sounds like something worth looking into for experimentation.

I'm glad that you might be willing to try it for the benefit of others because of all your experience.
My firm guess is that the silkspan lite would be most like the thickness of teabag paper.
Here's what I think are photos of it. --->>> https://www.modelaviationdigital.co...cle.action?articleId=1410447#articleId1410447

This review shows the medium grade for much larger plane projects that need a heavier teabag paper. --->>> https://easybuiltmodels.com/Evaluation of EBM Silkspan.pdf

It's hard to tell from the photos because they may show more than one layer of paper.
But the person that made the original post provided a link to the light paper. --->>> https://brodak.com/catalog/product/view/id/1626/s/silkspan-lite-white-only-2-sheets/category/893/

I've been searching for teabag paper on eBay and other auction sites and the small pieces are too expensive for only being the size of a teabag.
This silkspan seems to be much more affordable if you can help determine if it works as well or better than cigarette paper.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Well, I just ordered a few sheets of the silkspan. They are 24"X36" each sheet. The first link came up as the thin material. Since I've tried almost everything else, it will interesting to see how this works. So far I've been happy with the RAW cigarette papers and the curling papers, but I enjoy experimenting with paper cartridges. Worth a few bucks to find alternatives as you never know what will work.

 

[arcticap]

Well, I just ordered a few sheets of the silkspan.

That's encouraging. Thanks and we'll look forward to hearing about it.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.navy six 2...lemme know how it works out

 

[Navy Six 2]

I will make up a few in .36--.44's next--to try and compare as soon as the paper arrives. I did try taking a lit match to an empty tea bad and it didn't seem to burn any different than my normal papers. Of course that was in the open air and doesn't compare to an actual round going off in the chamber. Either way I look forward to testing things out.

 

[arcticap]

I will make up a few in .36--.44's next--to try and compare as soon as the paper arrives. I did try taking a lit match to an empty tea bad and it didn't seem to burn any different than my normal papers. Of course that was in the open air and doesn't compare to an actual round going off in the chamber. Either way I look forward to testing things out.

Those RAW cigarette papers seem to be a very special hemp paper.
Not all cigarette papers burn as well as they do.
I went to their website and apparently there are counterfeit RAW papers.
RAW posted a 0:57 video showing how to tell the difference.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Yeah there are lots of counterfeit rolling papers out there. I once ordered some from amazon and the printing on the package looked a bit "off" to me compared the others of the same brand. When i compared the papers they were different too...they didnt have the diamond grid pattern that looks like a watercolor mark. They burned all the same though when i used them as cartridges...so not sure if it will make much of a difference in our application but its very good to know when to spot a knock off.

 

[whughett]

So I wonder what I’m doing wrong. Raw brand cigarette paper or hairdresser end wraps after shooting and while cleaning, the chambers of the revolvers will have paper fragments in the bottom of the chamber. They actually appear to be the capped ends of the paper cartridge that would be lying under the powder charge.

Using the Erasgone kit. I’ve made and shot maybe three hundred 44’s. For the most part the fragments haven’t created any problems.

Those with no unburned paper in revolvers. Are you gluing a base paper on the ends of the paper cylinders or twisting.? With just the bases of the paper cartridge left it would point to the glue protecting the paper from combusting fully perhaps.

 

[Navy Six 2]

OK, the silkspan(thin) came in and I was able to make 24 paper cartridges in .36. I used 17 grs. Swiss and Outlaw Kid's method of using a pin gauge to produce non tapered cartridges, which I now prefer. I used a pair of Uberti 51 Navies and as a comparison I brought along another 24 identical cartridges but with the use of curling paper as the only difference. Of course one type of cartridge was fired exclusively in each gun.
Every round went off and when finished and returning home my inspection showed the silkspan rounds showed slightly heavier "doughnut" shaped rings at the bottom of the cylinder. These were the remains of the capped ends of the cartridges. I could tell this because I use green tissue paper for end caps--ignition end-- on my .36's. These rings had a perfectly round hole in the center. Sorry for no pictures. There were no other fragments of paper in the chambers. I may have contributed to this as I hastily made the cartridges and used a bit more Duco cement than normal on the caps. These residual "rings" are what I usually get, no matter what type of paper used, when I make non tapered cartridges. Again, too much Duco?
Other observations--the thin silkspan felt very close in thickness to the curling paper. I believe it is slightly less durable than the curling paper as I mangled a few during construction--always while sealing the end away from ignition which had been moistened with Elmers glue. I took a small piece of each type of paper outside and put a match to it and the silkspan burned a bit more rapidly. So if you have silkspan it seemed to give similar results to the more readily available curling paper. For myself I believe I will continue with the RAW brand papers. They are more delicate and I will loose some during the construction process, but I like using as thin a paper as possible.

 

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.navy six 2, thank you for sharing the experience! About the duco...yes i think you may have used too much. Ya know what also works...the elmers stick glue. If used lightly with the same method you get complete burns. Duco works great but a little too heavy and it will sometimes hinder paper burn. I made some using rice paper disks and also disks made of curling paper..the curling paper may suit u better if using duco cement. But perhaps try the RAW papers with a curling paper disk glued on with elmers purple glue stick? I found this combination worked amazingly well. I now save the duco for making my homemade caps.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Outlaw Kid, thanks for the tip about the use of a lightly coated--with the glue stick--paper discs. I will make up a few that way. I was a bit surprised at the silkspan. It seemed as durable as the curling paper until a bit of moisture, in the form of Elmers glue--was applied. Then the silkspan tore much quicker than anything else I've tried. That's why we are experimenting and it's part of the fun!

 

[arcticap]

Outlaw Kid, thanks for the tip about the use of a lightly coated--with the glue stick--paper discs. I will make up a few that way. I was a bit surprised at the silkspan. It seemed as durable as the curling paper until a bit of moisture, in the form of Elmers glue--was applied. Then the silkspan tore much quicker than anything else I've tried. That's why we are experimenting and it's part of the fun!

I had questions about the silkspan but didn't want to press for answers that aren't known, and also considering that the curling papers are cheaper.
But then TheOutlawKid mentioned the glue sticks which answered a question I had about whether the silkspan could be used to reduce any remnants.
I suppose that you will experiment more with the silkspan since you already have it.
I'm not sure if the silkspan could replace the green tissue as an end cap or not, but it seems like it could be tried.
It occurred to me that perhaps it would support the more complete combustion of the Duco [or other glue] where the green tissue would not.
I also recall TheOutlawKid mentioning that he thins the Duco cement with acetone and wasn't sure if you also did that or not.
Does the green tissue come from a gift shop?
Does it burn faster than silkspan?
But now these questions seem mute since the glue stick could solve the remnant problems.

BTW, I don't know if it's the case with all silkspan but some such paper is said to have all of the fibers running in the same basic direction.
That could mean that if stretched in the opposing direction that it could be weaker and cause it to break.
Whereas with filter paper, the fibers are not as uniformly directional.
That may explain some of Silkspan's combustion and strength characteristics.

 

[.38 Special]

So I wonder what I’m doing wrong. Raw brand cigarette paper or hairdresser end wraps after shooting and while cleaning, the chambers of the revolvers will have paper fragments in the bottom of the chamber. They actually appear to be the capped ends of the paper cartridge that would be lying under the powder charge.

Using the Erasgone kit. I’ve made and shot maybe three hundred 44’s. For the most part the fragments haven’t created any problems.

Those with no unburned paper in revolvers. Are you gluing a base paper on the ends of the paper cylinders or twisting.? With just the bases of the paper cartridge left it would point to the glue protecting the paper from combusting fully perhaps.

The only time I never see any unburned paper left is with flash paper. Everything else I have tried - which is most things - leaves some sort of residue. I think the people with NO residue aren't looking hard enough.