NJ Gun ban will prohibit muskets.

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cbsbyte

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Proposal would prohibit battlefield muskets and popular deer muzzleloaders

Thursday, May 10, 2007

BY BRIAN T. MURRAY
Star-Ledger Staff

The Continental Army and the Redcoats may have to go at each other with baseball bats in New Jersey.

Revolutionary War buffs who annually re-enact historic conflicts like the Battle of Monmouth with muskets contend they will be disarmed by a proposed gun ban aimed at modern .50-caliber rifles that gun-control advocates call potential terrorist "sniper" weapons.

A bill in the Assembly (A3998) states that antiques and replica guns will be excluded from the ban, but gun advocates say the measure caps that exclusionary rule at .60-caliber rifles -- which would ban muskets carried by many Civil War re-enactors, as well as the Continental Army. The proposed law also extends the ban to popular, one-shot "in-line" muzzleloaders used by thousands of deer hunters, angering many sporting organizations.

"Just about every rifle carried on the American continent prior to 1855 were larger than .60-caliber," said Peter Hefferan of Wantage, a re-enactor and owner of Reactive Technologies, a private firearms consulting operation that works with law enforcement.

"You'll wipe out re-enactors of the American Revolution. The whole concept of the re-enactment is history, and it is required that everything be accurate right down to the threading of the garments and the number of buttons, even the type of buttons," he said.

The arrest this week of six suspected terrorists accused of trying to kill personnel at Fort Dix has provided some steam for the controversial gun-ban bill.

"We have no intent of damaging or impeding the ability of hunters to hunt or re-enactors to do what they do," said Bryan Miller of Cease Fire New Jersey. "But every time we try to get people from the other side of this debate to help us draft a bill that works, they refuse. If this bill is flawed, it's their own fault."

Still, Assemblyman Reed Gusciora (D-Mercer), a primary sponsor of the .50-caliber ban, said he hopes to clear up the dispute with hunters and re-enactors by introducing amendments today when the measure goes before the Assembly Law and Public Safety Committee in Trenton.

"I just went to a tour of the Princeton battlefield today, so I understand the importance of the re-enactors and I plan to make sure the legislation is clearer so they are not affected. The amendments also will take out in-line muzzleloaders," Gusciora said.

The target of the law is supposedly the civilian model of the .50-caliber BMG rifle, including the bolt-action as well as any semi-automatic version of the gun. Such rifles are capable of effectively firing a .50-caliber, fixed-ammunition round about 1,000 yards.

A few trained military snipers have been able to kill enemy targets at much longer distances since the guns were invented in 1917.

Large and cumbersome, they are not widely owned in the United States, have not been used in crimes and, according to firearms experts, cannot shoot down commercial airplanes as some claim. But gun-control activists contend the large-caliber rifle has no legitimate sporting purpose and that, in the era of home-grown terrorists, the time has come to ban the gun.

"Especially in light of the events this week at Fort Dix, we need to remember we're now in a post-9/11 world where we have to be worried about someone misusing this gun," Gusciora said.

The in-line rifles and the guns used by re-enactors are all muzzleloaders -- rifles that use technology dating back hundreds of years. They do not use modern ammunition cartridges.

They are loaded by pouring black powder or powder pellets down the barrel of the rifle and then packing a bullet-type projectile down the barrel on top of the charge.

Some old models are ignited by burning a wick, as with the famous "Three Musketeers." Most replicas and in-line models used today are ignited by pulling a trigger that brings a hammer down to ignite a powder cap or an open pan of black powder, which sends a spark into the chamber of the rifle to ignite the packed powder and projectile in the muzzle.

The hammers are traditionally on the side of the rifle.

But modern "in-line" muzzleloading rifles have the hammer directly at the rear of the gun -- largely to permit hunters to keep their powder dry in damp whether.

About 9,200 deer are shot annually in New Jersey by muzzleloader hunters.

"In-line muzzleloaders are one of the most popular deer guns around. This bill attacks hunting along with the .50-caliber gun they want to ban," said George Howard of the New Jersey Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs. "They almost banned shotguns the last time they tried a bill like this, and I don't know whether it's deliberate or they just don't know what they are doing."

Legislative attempts to ban the .50-caliber BMG rifle have gone on for nearly a decade, but they also have stalled because of murky wording.

Why am I not surprised about this happening in NJ. Sad fact is I am waiting for this to happen in Mass.
 
Stupidity knows no bounds in NJ - vote those bozos out of office or leave the state. I'm not sure it is still part of the United States.
 
Hunters??

The proposed law also extends the ban to popular, one-shot "in-line" muzzleloaders used by thousands of deer hunters, angering many sporting organizations.
Gotta be false.

Everybody knows they won't take the hunting rifles.

Outdoor magazine writers have assured us for decades that hunters won't lose their rifles.

They promised only the evil semi-auto rifles would be banned.

They promised.

Oh, yeah, and this:
"We have no intent of damaging or impeding the ability of hunters to hunt or re-enactors to do what they do," said Bryan Miller of Cease Fire New Jersey. "But every time we try to get people from the other side of this debate to help us draft a bill that works, they refuse. If this bill is flawed, it's their own fault."
If this bill is flawed, it's their own fault.
. . . it's their own fault.
Yes, it's our own fault.

We made them write a bad law.

"Whip me, beat me, make me write bad laws."
 
OK, all of you in NJ. (and in CA, and in MD, and in NY, and in IL, etc.)

Work to vote the bums out.

That is impossible since gun owners in these state are vastly outnumbered by the antis, and sadly there are too many traitors who will go along with the antis to save their precious hunting guns.
 
. . . save their hunting guns?

. . . sadly there are too many traitors who will go along with the antis to save their precious hunting guns.
Yup.

That bill will sure save the hunting guns.

Absolutely.

I mean, they would NEVER ban a single shot, would they?

Never.
 
I thought it was just black assault muskets.

Same as whenever freedom stealers abound. They use a false premise (the terrorists who did not have and were not trying to buy .50 cals) to ban an otherwise innocous gun.
 
That is impossible....

There are worse things in life than to devote yourself to truth, freedom, and justice, even if it turns out to be "impossible".

They said that it would be impossible for William Wilberforce to abolish slavery in Great Britain, but 200 years ago this year Parliament outlawed the slave trade.
 
Weren't 50 BMG rifles used for target shooting for many years before they were every adopted by the military? The anti arguments that this is a military weapon with no sporting use are absurd. FIRST it was used for a sporting purpose, THEN the military adopted these for long-range shooting. With that exact same logic, because the Army & Marines use the Win 70 & Rem 700 for sniping, those rifles could be banned for civillian use.

One thing that worries me about the re-enactors is that they talk as if they have no problem with the ban as long as it doesn't affect them. Don't they ever think about why the battles they reenact were fought in the first place?
 
I have long been convinced, based partly on meeting many of them, that anti-gun activists are often insane fanatics who will use any excuse to pass more anti-gun legislation. I am further convinced that they will not always wait until there is a mass killing, but are perfectly willing to set one up. There have been too many mass killings, by people with no money, but who were able to buy expensive guns and travel widely to obtain them.

Many years ago, a young woman working for the National Council to Ban Handguns told me that she would be happy if "every one of you gun freaks is shot down in the streets and the gutters run with your blood!" As far as I can see, she was typical.

Jim
 
Besides the (well-received, accurate, appropriate) snide comments about how it turns out that statist hoplophobes will indeed "take away the hunting rifles," how about this one?

"The 2d amendment wasn't about modern automatic weapons -- when it was written, The People were limited to slow, unwieldy, single-shot muskets."

Well, now ...

timothy
 
Creeping Incrementalism- That is a disturbing post. It is because they have a valuable military purpose that we should have them. What difference does it make if they have a sporting purpose?

It is for that purpose (long range sniping at key personnel and equipment) that the pols want to ban them.
 
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Titan6 said:
Creeping Incrementalism- That is a disturbing post. It is because they have a valuable military purpose that we should have them. What difference does it make if they have a sporting purpose?

I was referring only to the flaw in the anti's logic. I'm not implying that it would be okay to ban rifles if the military used them first.
 
Any chance we can give NJ back to the Redcoats?- We could say that since the vast majority of the weapons used then were only recently revealed to be illegal, both countries get a do over and we choose not to contest NJ- If the Brits don't go for this we could sweeten the deal and add the rest of the Northeast- Once we con England with this we can start working on Mexico getting California back for the same reasons- :D
 
The military used the Browning Machine Gun (BMG) round first IIRC. But .50 muskets are as old as guns... Which were probably used by the military first also.
 
"I just went to a tour of the Princeton battlefield today, so I understand the importance of the re-enactors and I plan to make sure the legislation is clearer so they are not affected. The amendments also will take out in-line muzzleloaders," Gusciora said."


Too bad Mr. Gusciora doesn't understand the importance of the Constitution of the United States. But then what would one expect from these power mad extreme left wing politicians?

L.W.
 
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